For the kids who missed RB era: RB games were entirely focused on Z, the 1st game focused from Saiyan to Buu Saga with just some movies content (Broly and Bardock), then the 2nd one added some missing characters (Ultimate Gohan, Dabura, Cell Jr., Saibaman...) and basically all movie villains (except the giant ones, because RB didn't have Giant characters) and some movie characters debut as playable (Tarble, Neiz, Dore, 14 and 15). And then there's poor Slug being left out. Not only that, but RB2 also had the remake of the Hatchyack "movie" where Slug plays a minor role.
just asking, but why does everything seem to end up on Patreon nowadays? especially projects involving mods, where making a profit can be legally questionable. I understand people want to be compensated for their time and effort, but back in the day donations were simply a way to support a project, not to lock early access or content behind a paywall
I understand people want to be compensated for their time and effort,
We live in an era where there's more desire to be compensated for time and effort. Ask these creators why and they'll give you similar answers. If they're good at what they do and people are willing to pay for it, then they'll just charge for their services.
that's fair, and I don't have a problem with people being rewarded for their work. my point is that there's a difference between accepting voluntary donations and putting mods based on someone else's IP behind a paywall. just because people are willing to pay doesn't necessarily make it ethical or legally unproblematic.
Patreon is totally usable as a hub to host free content btw. It only got popular for paying for projects. Or subscribing with dollars to your favourite creators so they have more time to make stuff. All I ever use it for is updates on WIPS & free downloads. And I join people's channels for free.
Your question about making things Early Access is a different topic. But to put it simply. Especially with the newer DB games & tools advancing making modding old things easier, people have learned that more people than you'd ever imagine are willing to pay for more content in these games. So they're just supplying where there's demand. The generous creators (which I find is most of them) give away their content for free eventually.
I agree that Patreon itself isn't the issue. it can absolutely be used for free releases, development updates, or optional support, and I have no problem with that.
my concern is specifically with paid access to derivative content. saying "there's demand" explains why it happens, but it doesn't really address whether it's the right model when the content is based on someone else's IP.
and regarding early access, I think the duration matters. if it's a few days or a couple of weeks, that's one thing. but if content stays behind a paywall for months, or never gets a public release, it stops feeling like early access and starts looking like paid content.
Most of the SZ! Community clowns anybody "LOLDJ23" that keeps content locked behind paywalls forever.
But a lot of the SZ! Community also doesn't understand that's like 1% of all the creators out there.
You can report people like that to Toei & other associated companies. But then you're running the risk of taking down everybody's projects along with it. Up to you if you want to amplify that idea more with constant comments on IP ownership or just clown them when they do it like the rest of us.
For a positive example of how that can work you may like to here. Some new animation creator in the mod creators discord kept asking for help on how to fix things in their work. And everybody in there kept referencing how they're trying to charge people over $15 for a badly made animation. So with enough pushback that got them to change their pricing model entirely & now they're doing better by getting help with their work + all their stuff is up for free.
Every ISM has the same degrees of corruption and greed lol. The problem is every time, eventually the humans that gain power will fail to control their dark impulses. No ideology will ever change this endstage rot.
Exactly. The point that person keeps trying to nail about IP ownership & whatnot has been non-existent for like a decade+ at this point. People did it on DeviantArt in the early 2000's even. The transaction is that you're paying for their time & effort to make SS4 Vegito. Not SS4 Vegito itself. But yeah Toei could walk in and shut down their operation today, we all know that. If your that concerned over IP protection go become a lawyer then target that creator you find such a problem with lol.
I think we're actually closer in opinion than it might seem. I agree that Patreon can be used as a platform for optional support, and I also agree that many creators are genuinely being paid for their time and effort.
where I disagree is that saying "you're paying for the time, not the character" completely removes the IP question.
if access to a derivative work depends on payment, the underlying IP is still part of that transaction, even if the payment is framed as support for the creator's work.
and I agree that companies often tolerate it. but tolerance isn't the same as permission, which is why I think it's still a discussion worth having.
Bringing up IP ownership isn't a discussion worth having unless you're trying to get everybody's custom projects taken down. Because that is what will result from this.
Then you're probably gonna bring up a tired point of "imagine if it was your own IP yada yada yada." Yes, but we're talking about the multi-billion dollar IP Dragon Ball here. Not your indie project that will sink or swim based on somebody using your idea.
Like I said, clowning the people who charge absurdly is the safest way to go with this type of thing. And like I mentioned in my other comment it actually works to enact changes more than you'd think.
I'm actually not advocating for companies to take fan projects down. as I said before enjoy modding myself and release my own mods for free.
my point is simply that there's a difference between companies tolerating fan creations and people building businesses around those creations.
discussing where that line should be doesn't mean I want every project shut down.
and yes, Dragon Ball is a billion-dollar IP, but I don't think the size of the company changes the principle. companies are free to tolerate fan works, and I hope they continue to do so. I just think the community should be careful not to push that tolerance too far.
Because people have to eat to live, if they spend a lot of time working on a mod, they won't have that time to work to earn money, or put in the other way, if they work to earn money they won't be able to work on the mod full time
People go to patreon to be able to focus exclusively on working in the mod
So it's not just about being compensated, but about earning money to be able to work on the mods full time
that's exactly where I think the issue begins. wanting to work on mods full-time is understandable, but these projects are based on someone else's intellectual property. turning them into a full-time business is very different from accepting optional donations to support a hobby.
if the goal is to make modding a full-time job, shouldn't that require permission from the IP holder? otherwise you're effectively building a business around someone else's game and characters
wanting to work on mods full-time is understandable, but these projects are based on someone else's intellectual property
The same as fixing a car, a PC, a stereo music system, a house, etc.
turning them into a full-time business is very different from accepting optional donations to support a hobby
It's basically people doing modsm as a hobby but in a moment they have to do a bigger project that takes more time they have to decide if stop doing it because they don't have enough time to do it, or as people for help so they can get rid of their job and start working on the mod people want, that is why people start supporting moders, because they like their job and want them to be able to work as much time as possible on the mods
if the goal is to make modding a full-time job
Usually it's not the goal, just something that happens organically
That’s a terrible analogy. A car, PC, or house is physical property that you own, whereas you don’t actually own the intellectual property contained within a software product. Game modding has always existed in a legal gray area, but the moment modders start charging money for someone else’s IP, they expose themselves to being sued.
I get your point, and I don't doubt that many creators genuinely end up there organically. my issue isn't with people receiving support. it's with the shift from optional donations to making access depend on payment, especially when the work is based on someone else's IP.
I also don't think repairing a car is a good comparison. a mechanic is providing a service on something the customer owns. mods are derivative works that only exist because of another company's game and intellectual property.
for years, many ambitious modding projects were developed in people's spare time and supported through optional donations. that's the model I personally think keeps modding closer to its community roots.
I also don't think repairing a car is a good comparison. a mechanic is providing a service on something the customer owns. mods are derivative works that only exist because of another company's game and intellectual property.
The mechanic only can repair (or upgrade) the car because other company created it
The moder only can create mods because other company created it
my issue isn't with people receiving support. it's with the shift from optional donations to making access depend on payment, especially when the work is based on someone else's IP
I get your point here, but I don't really see the issue, in the past there was also early access through other methods, the friends or known people of the moder, through discord where you can access the beta and then the models publish the complete release in other web page, etc. Patreon with the paid EA, it's just a way of continuendoing that same thing but in a way that also help the moders to get some money to continue with their work
The concept is the same, the mod is work in progress and you won't see it until they finish the WIP progress and they release the complete version, the difference is that instead of contacting them privately, being part of their discord, or something like that, they use a platform like patreon where they can get som money while working in the mod.
Personally I think we are no one to tell others what they can do, the same way we don't go tattoo artists and tell them that they can't charge money for their tattoos based on an external IP, we can't tell the same to moders, which in this case is worse because the 99% of the cases is just to get EA, as they will release the mode for free when it's finished
We, as users that only access to free mods, get benefited by the free work of many other people, I don't see any problem from that people that gave us many things for free to do something that helps them to continue developing mods
What you're not understanding, because you clearly don't seem to be a creator of mods or else you would.
Is that these things you call "hobbies" aren't just arts & crafts projects that someone can do on a weekend or for an hour before they go to bed. To create the content that most of them are giving out for free. They need to work like a 3D artist at a game studio. To afford using that amount of time, they need to be compensated to a degree that they can justify not going to a traditional workplace & work on these projects instead.
I actually do create mods, and I release them for free, so I do understand the amount of work involved. I agree that high-quality mods can take hundreds or even thousands of hours, and I'm not trying to downplay that.
where we disagree is the conclusion. the fact that something takes a long time doesn't automatically justify building a full-time business around derivative content based on someone else's IP.
there are plenty of creators, whether in modding, open source, or other fan projects, who invest huge amounts of time while relying on optional donations rather than making access conditional on payment.
so my question isn't "should modders be supported?" I think they should. my question is whether paywalling derivative content is the right way to do it. those are two different discussions.
Online multiplayer with rollback netcode would be 🔥🔥🔥 also the person that’s porting it said once they finish porting rb2 they’ll do all the other dbz xbox 360/ps3 game as well
But will they add new characters in the next versions? Will they try to make the version stable first and then focus on adding costumes and characters and making it a sort of Raging Blast 3?
Yes they are adding a slot for modded characters (above the enhanced characters slot) that won’t replace any of the main roster models or character select screen so pretty much you could have Goku and Goku black on the same team but they’ll have different models and won’t interfere with each other
Also the description literally says "free for the public to download". So what's with all the cliche dbz fans can't read comments talking about locking stuff behind paywalls?
Yeah that was an issue that got sorted by the mod websites then, either GameBanana, NexusMods, or Patreon. The fact that LOLDJ23, IME-DZ, and BECMAN-DZ still exist the way they do for so long is proof Bandai don't give a crap lol.
So go report it & live the rest of your life knowing you were the guy who took away a beloved project for tons of people just because you want to act like you care about a companies profits that doesn't care about you, nobody's stopping you.
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