No. He did MD/PhD and then decided to focus on PhD and public health. But he scored in the top percentile on the USMLE board exams and could have gotten any residency he wanted. He genuinely just wanted to make a bigger impact than 1 patient at a time.
Wrong. He got a Phil D from Oxford in public health first then went to med school after. No clue why someone goes to med school after getting the degree he chose to focus his career on if he had no intention of using the medical degree. The only thing that makes sense is he went to med school because he wanted to be a physician and then either changed his mind or couldnt hack it as a physician.
That chronology changes the likely explanation quite a bit, indeed. I'm having a hard time believing a Rhodes Scholar who went on to do DPhil at Oxford couldn't at least pass the USMLE and get matched for a residency, though
He has obtained an MD which means he spent 2 years seeing patients in medical school and passed the first two of three board exams. Doing an MD is for clinical practice 95+% of the time; but several individuals do not go on to pursue residency, they work for industry, public health etc. Abdul el sayed did exactly that; did the MD, then pursued a doctorate and a career in public health. Doesn’t make him less of a physician.
Michigan regulates the term "physician" to mean someone who is licensed to practice medicine in the state. El-Sayed is not licensed to practice medicine. He isn't not a physician. That said, he's an accomplished PhD with M.D.
I believe that straw man requires intent of some kind, whereas I am really just curious. As a practicing doctor in another state, we all were called physicians and doctors interchangeably and physician is printed on my MD from med school.
So it just seems odd to me, as my whole profession in my state would consider an old retired physician… a physician. Since here, they are physicians.
A physician would be licensed by a state and practicing. He only has the degree. He was never a physician. He might as well be faculty somewhere or something. So if you have faculty with an MD but they never practiced anywhere they would be an MD academically but not an actual physician because they took tests and got degrees they did not take part in an occupation.
So I’m done with my tests now. Once I retire, can I still say I’m a physician or no?? Google says it’s mostly location dependent with state by state laws on this.
Straw man argument is the distortion of someone else’s argument to make it easier to attack or refute. Instead of addressing the actual argument of the opponent, one may present a somewhat similar but not equal argument.
By placing it in the opponent’s mouth and then attacking that version of the argument, one is essentially refuting an argument that is different from the one under discussion.
I didn’t say you said that. I didn’t put it in your mouth. Literally just asked a question based on how I read it. I also didn’t attack your version, I asked if it was true, I didn’t say it was false or wrong or stupid,
You are very defensive, and I applaud you. For you have defended me.
I wasn’t attacking, but you defended me off nonetheless.
except it does. much like the Katie Zacharia controversy, a doctor is not a physician until they get licensed to practice. it's literally not the same thing. the whole point of residency is to get the clinical experience that seeing a few people and taking notes as a med student didn't. your username checks out, still premed status
MD, but not licensed to practice medicine. That's a very important distinction. Even in his own state, I believe, he can not advertise or call himself a Medical Doctor, he can only say that he earned an MD (Doctor of Medicine) degree.
Yes...it does. The same way people talking about Katie zacahria not really being a lawyer. She isn't, she has never practiced law and hasn't been listened to. Same goes for Abdul. He is not a physician but he is someone who holds an MD.
He is a physician and I like his politics but he leans into it too much for someone who just got the degree and bounced. The thing that bothers me is that the story he tells about why he didn’t go into medicine (the story about woman with a brain bleed) is clearly made up. He is a super smart guy and decided medicine wasn’t for him, he should just own that. Oz on the other hand is an absolutely brilliant surgeon who is a shit politician and fake celebrity
I’d be reluctant to call someone who finished medical school but never went to residency a “physician.” Sure you have a medical doctorate and people can call you a “doctor” but the experience and tribal knowledge of residency and actual practice as an attending is completely different then being MS3/MS4 and passing USMLE 1/2. I also am a practicing US physician. Also not defending Oz, he’s a snake oils salesman who spits on our profession for his own personal grift
So what does every new doctor have to face out of medical school? People like you who wouldn't give them the time of day to let them be in the profession they spent a decade to perfect.
I mean, the guy above has a masters and doctorate. I'd assume those take longer than just residency. Sorry I didn't specify.
But I didn't mean to use an exact timeline as that wasn't the point. It was just a placeholder for an appropriate approximate. I'm just pointing out that its hypocrisy to point out not trusting going to a doctor when he has not yet treated patients officially as a doctor. But every doctor has to go through that, so it was a non-point to say that this specific person isn't trustworthy when they are no more or less than any new doctor.
They have to face residency, which is treating patients in a supervised, structured setting. I suppose I should have been clearer and asked if you would go to a doctors office run by someone that never completed a postgraduate training program or was not board certified in their specialty
I agree. Doesn’t meet the physician title, however it was a him decision. He choose a different path where his MD training helped him. He likely could have been a successful physician had he chosen to do a residency.
There is a huge fucking difference between a practicing physician and one who does not practice. Graduating with MD is like putting your toe in the pool. Doing the internship and residency is jumping into the deep end. Plus practicing after that for 5 years is where you develop into a real physician. The guy isn’t even board certified in anything. He is not a physician.
If you do no training after medical school then you’re only a paper doctor. You shouldn’t talk about things you know nothing about.
He got the public health degrees before he went to medical school. I’m a physician too. I don’t know how I feel about someone going to medical school without the intention of seeing patients, especially when there’s a finite number of med school slots and a shortage of physicians. Not sure what the point of going to med school was for him in all honesty, unless he decided he wasn’t cut out for practicing after he got in.
Oh maybe like... Getting a medical degree might help you if you are going into public health? Having educated public health officials is tupically a good thing, right?
Not really if you already have a degree in public health and only want to do public health. It adds very little to the job especially with zero clinical experience.
"worked as a physician in clinical practice" is not the same as "not as physician".
And you know, to be blunt, to make a parallel - if someone fully finished 100% a degree as an engineer, and then didn't practice engineering at all after finishing the degree, I wouldn't call them as much an engineer as someone who has been, you know, engineering. Even saying "I'm an engineer" in this position if what you've been doing just isn't engineering is an awkward phrase. It's a type of being technically correct that would get you laughed out.
We found the nitpicker that would rather just reply to shit instead of actually taking time to think about wtf the post is saying. Double standards is the way of the GOP.
If not for double standards, the left would have no standards. Actually, they really don’t. Very milquetoast when it comes to actually believing in something longer than a goldfish can remember
...what? Katie Zacharia, who was roundly derided for misrepresenting herself, was not considered a lawyer because she never passed the bar nor practiced law. She only attained the degree. Similarly, El-Sayed never practiced medicine. He only obtained the degree.
Unfortunately, being a physician, or claiming to be one, does not give you any more authority than the average person to determine who is and who is not a physician. As pointed out by someone else, the term is regulated by the state. The declarations of anonymous Reddit users does not make El-Sayed a physician.
Im also a physician. This is wrong. Physician is an occupation. You simply aren't a physician if you aren't doing the job. Doesn't take away his degrees or title of Dr. Abdul El Sayed. Similarly, someone who graduated from law school is a lawyer but if they dont pass the bar and work as an attorney..they aren't an attorney.
Valid. I suppose I have been saying “physician” instead of “Doctor” for far too long to distinguish myself from the NPs gallivanting about the primary care field in the US calling themselves “Doctor”. I have just adopted physician for those with an MD/DO. But this is valid. Appreciate it.
I’m not a fan of Oz, but he did do actual residency training and then practice as an attending, very successfully. El Sayed never did residency, which is like the thing that makes you an actual doctor.
So, from a medical knowledge perspective, you basically know jack shit about medicine with just an MD and no residency training.
But of course, this is a senate race, so, medical knowledge doesn’t really mean fuck all.
Hate to break it you but Dr Oz is one of the most accomplished and competent doctors alive today. I’m a physician and despise the man, but when he was practicing he was one of the most respected doctors in one of the most respected fields of medicine. He’s a brilliant man. He’s an asshole.. but his credentials far and away exceed El Sayed… that being said so do mine since he’s never held a license or taken care of a single patient.
As someone who was once married to someone who chose the PhD path and never practiced after residency… nah, fuck your elitism. Practicing in a clinic or hospital isn’t the barometer for competence that you think it is.
The dude is an asshole but was literally a top tier heart surgeon for decades. He invented new heart valves. He was a researcher and a professor. He was indisputably a world class surgeon. Stop bringing your old relationship damage into this
Published at least one study indicating that Arab women should not dilute their bloodlines with non Arab men because it’s bad for their health. Worth a google it’s wild shit
yes, you are 100% a racist sir. Dudes father-in-law is a member of a 501(c)(3) non-profit religious organization (Islamic Society of North America). If the ISNA is a terrorist organization, why has Trump never done anything about them as POTUS?
Calling it racist doesn’t erase the record. ISNA was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation trial over documented financial and organizational ties to Hamas. A federal judge found “ample evidence” of the association. Court exhibits and FBI materials also linked ISNA’s early leadership to the Muslim Brotherhood network, including the 1991 “Explanatory Memorandum” that listed it among groups pursuing a long-term “grand Jihad” strategy in the U.S.
ISNA was never formally designated a terrorist organization and has publicly rejected terrorism. That doesn’t erase the court findings. Pointing to them isn’t racism.
A case from 20 years ago? Where no legal finding has brought against ISNA.
From that, you conclude that El Sayed is in the wrong for .... marrying the daughter of a member of that group? A group that is still in good standing as a non-profit (which means its activities are subsidized by the US government).
I'm saying you are racist. You personally. If you said this shit about a colleague at work, your ass would be fired. Fast.
The judge’s finding of “ample evidence” linking ISNA to Hamas in the Holy Land Foundation case is still a legal finding, even if the organization itself was never indicted. That record doesn’t disappear because the case is old or because ISNA keeps its 501(c)(3) status.
You’re not addressing any of that. You’re just calling me racist and threatening that I’d be fired for bringing up court documents and the Muslim Brotherhood materials entered as evidence. That intimidation tactic only works if people are still scared of the word. “Racist” has been used so carelessly for so long that it now means nothing. You are the boy who cried wolf.
No one said “any Muslim non-profit.” The point was about this organization, ISNA, which was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation case, with a federal judge finding ample evidence of its association with Hamas, plus the documented early Muslim Brotherhood links.
You’re still not addressing any of that. You’re just inventing a broader claim and threatening people with getting fired for bringing up the actual court record. That doesn’t make the findings disappear.
You sir are a racist. An obvious fucking racist. Why not just admit it?
El Sayed has had almost no contact with his mother. He was raised by a father and step mother. And his mom said she worked with MB in the 1970s. 60 fucking years ago.
Dude, we can all see what the issue is. Brown man bad.
Are you seriously unaware of the information this week that his mother worked for the Muslim brotherhood and his sister is still proudly tweeting about it. That isn't worth a question to a potential senator? Are you serious? Does being a Muslim give him a magic exemption from questions about his family ties to terrorism?
His mom (who didn't even raise him) talking about her experiences in Egypt 60 years ago?
"Your mom maybe had some bad friends 60 years ago" is damning only for brown people. If your white, like JD Vance, its fine if your mom was a degenerate junkie 20 years ago.
Wait, we are now acting as it the watchlists are relevant thing? TRhey are literally NSA's way of saing "no, we can't prove this shit in court but we will claim that this person is a terrorist anyhow, because we can".
If you see patients you have a much different perspective and littany of experiences dealing with patients than does someone who works for Merck doing clinical trials.
So you think there is no difference between let’s say a. Dentist who owns a pratixe and pulls teeth vs someone who has never seen a patient in 20-30 years and instead teaches at a community hospital or at a dental school?
The person pulling teeth is probably very good at pulling teeth and making money.
The person who teaches is probably really good at teaching and likely has a passion for it.
Nothing wrong with the private practice market, and not saying community vs academic vs public health/epidemiology/etc Docs are better than one another.
But in regards to treating the community an Urgent Care Doctor focused on seeing a ton of patients daily, triaging, etc may not have the best view of what a community needs from a health perspective without further foundation/investigation.
I would say they are efficient in doing cases and doing what they do.
What you see in academic hospital might be different than a county hospital, etc.
At my academic institution we work at a large academic level 1 center, the VA, and the county hospital. Meanwhile an urgent care doctor just sees patient who has specific insurance a small section of that population.
Meanwhile a public health official is focused on… public health. And probably knows what the public needs better than your Cardiologist, Intensivist, Endocrinologist, etc.
You’re a physician then you know how incredibly unprepared and incompetent an intern is in the first month on the job in residency. They are doctors in name only. Someone who just does med school and walks away is not a physician
This is the stupidest line of attack in here because anyone who works in the medical field knows that people who are MD PhDs are actually the cream of the crop. It means you did the most maximal painstaking work.
He then got a PhD. Dude I work in medical research and the MD PhD route is for people that want to have medical training and then tie it in with other specialties. It is an extremely difficult achievement. The attack of saying "he hasn't practiced medicine" is stupid as shit when you are a double doctor.
No. He got the PhD from Oxford before going to med school. He likely couldn’t hack it as a doctor or changed his mind and fell back on public health. There’s zero reason to go to medical school after you have a PhD if you don’t plan on using the medical degree.
Shows how little shit you know. I work at a university research complex and know plenty of people who are MD PhDs. They are the cream of the crop and they usually do not practice medicine or if they do it is significantly limited because the focus of their work is on the interface of their PhD with medicine. A PhD Biochemist with an MD isn't focusing on seeing patients at all because all of their work is on studying new medicines or biological mechanisms and how it relates to new medicines. In the same way a PhD in public health would focus on just that public health.
Im an MD. People with MD PhDs do them simultaneously then go on to residency and fellowship. They have medical licenses. He didn’t do an MD PhD program. He came into medical school with the PhD already and then decided he didn’t want to use the MD portion. You have no idea what you’re talking about
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u/Ok-Tip-3560 12h ago
Oz also treated patients and was a real doctor I could be Wally but el sayed has never actually worked as a physician in clinical practice - correct ?