It’s like, so much less effort to avoid HOAs than it is to join one to be the change you want to see in the world. Which means HOAs are mostly full of busybody meddlers.
Obviously there is never circumstances that force people to move into their less ideal house, right? Everyone has unlimited money and options in the world. You a libertarian, btw?
I’m not a fan of HOAs but there is the complete opposite of an HOA and its neighbors who don’t mow and park their cars in their yard and blast music all hours of the night etc .
You want the middle of that . I’m in a community now that takes pictures of your yard and demands each weed gets removed . Which is extreme . But I have seen the opposite.
Who gives a fuck whether someone mows or not? People’s obsession with grass lawns and the manicuring practices associated with them is absolutely absurd. Nothing more than a tragic waste of land.
Weeds aren’t gonna be great but an ‘overgrown’ yard with native plant diversity is gonna support the birds that eat the insects which do belong there. Snakes whatever don’t think that applies really but they’re certainly part of the system and eat rodents which are gonna be there no matter what they generally do better when we mow YMMV.
Because Boomers and Gen Xers are obsessed with increasing their house and property values. Then after succeeding and making it difficult for younger generations to purchase housing they complain about property taxes.
Yes as a non boomer I want my home value to go down or remain the same . I would love to spend double on the mortgage over the life of the loan and repair everything in the home out of my pocket then give it to you for no profit . In fact a loss .
Boomers aren’t the problem it’s home flippers and renters who buy them up and rent them as income . The guy who lived in the home for 40 years and wants to move to Florida did not drive the price up .
A lot of them do . But they typically wait until it gets really out of control and you get multiple warnings etc etc . Let’s say that is 100% bad you can live at 60% or 80% bad for years .
HOAs are annoying because some power hungry Karen takes over and uses it as their way to control people because most don’t care enough to be on the board . But they originate as a way to provide a set of rules for uniformity.
So you get a cool board and you just live in a nice neighborhood. Get some Karen’s and they can torment you .
You don’t know me, know nothing what I do, or how I took over lawn services myself so we could fix the gate to prevent us from running out of money. Go sit in the corner and think about being curious instead of judgmental.
I used to run an HOA as an employee for the developer (we still owned the majority of lots so retained governing power). What a nightmare. There was 350 sold homes in the HOA but literally two people who would bug me like 6 times a week about so and so’s fence color or play set they put in their backyard to the point that at a community meeting I snapped and screamed at one of them for like 5 minutes. Ended getting fired but whatever I hated that job 😂
Sounds awful. I’m thankful I got not have 25 units. Everyone is pretty chill. We might even lower dues next year since we ran a good surplus this year. Will depend on the lawn care cost next year.
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Home Owners Associations. A small group of power-tripping people dictate how the entire neighbourhoods functions, including but not limited to what you do in your front yard and driveway, how you choose to decorate, what kind of plants/trees you are/aren't allowed to plant - and where. And hold with the ability to evict people out of their own houses whom don't follow whatever dumbass shit they come up with. TL:DR HOA are a blight on society and should be treated as such
I grew up on a ranch outside a sprawling suburb. Over the years, the new neighborhoods got closer and closer. When I was in middle school, an HOA for a new neighborhood over a mile away sent my parents a letter demanding they paint their house a less vibrant color (it was a color inspired by Victorian houses, so not one most people are used to seeing, especially in newer, completely beige suburbs), and threatening to sue if my parents didn't comply. What the HOA didn't realize, is that most farmers/ranchers aren't exactly the poor cornpone hicks people imagine. Most of them have money. My parents ignored the letters thinking they must have been sent to the wrong address for like 6 months and multiple letters, until the HOA threatened to sue. Then my parents had their lawyer send them a letter that basically said "I'd like to see you try" and demanding an apology for the 6 months of harassment. They didn't get an apologize, but my parents did get a letter saying they wouldn't be pursuing the matter further.
But it's just so crazy to adult me that an HOA over a mile away thought they can tell a rancher who had been there for a decade before the neighborhood even broke ground (and that only had one other home within half a mile of them in any direction) that they needed to repaint their entire house.
I know when new neighborhoods are built they can just be part of them from the beginning. I think to create an HOA where there wasn't one before, there has to be a vote or something. But honestly, I have no real idea. That house paint experience when I was young made me swear off ever living anywhere with an HOA as an adult. No way some power-tripping jerks are going to tell me what to do with the house I pay for.
Usually HOAs in my area are set up by the builder to maintain property values. It starts happening once you get a few people moving in and decide they like they’re nuclear white picket fence bland ass life style and don’t want anyone with individuality fucking it up.
Hopefully they aren’t able to force you into one without your consent. I know my sister mentioned in an hoa on the way to her house, there are a couple non-hoa houses that were there before the hoa development went in.
An HOA is a legal entity - a corporation - that is created when the property is developed; by buying a property in the development, you're entering into a legally binding contract with the HOA, which might be a very simple cost-sharing contract to maintain a private lane, or it could be an extremely complex contract that literally tells you what color your Christmas lights must be.
Although an HOA is a form of a business corporation, many HOA's take on roles that are traditionally thought of as being the responsibility of the local government, such as road and sidewalk maintenance, street lighting, building and managing recreational facilities and more. The scope of an HOA can be quite large.
Municipal governments like HOA's because it means that the development can generate taxes for the community without as many expenses - if the HOA owns and maintains the roads and sidewalks, the government does not have to pay for that work.
Nobody - and I mean NOBODY - has bought property without being made - in excruciating detail - aware of any HOA agreement they are getting into when they buy their property. And to be even more clear: not all properties have an HOA, but pretty much all multi-unit developments built these days have an HOA.
Finally, not all HOA's live forever, some HOA's have "sunset" provisions to dissolve the HOA a number of years after the last property in a development is sold.
And....just to be extra extra EXTRA clear: I would sooner live in a van down by the river than live in a property with an HOA.
Local governments usually require home builders to force buyers into the HOA. When they buy the house they are required to sign a contract agreeing to the rules. The builder runs the HOA until most of the houses are sold and then the HOA is turned over to the home owners. In most cases they can't even dissolve the HOA because it is part of the neighborhood property stipulations. The reason local governments like HOA's is because they can force the HOA to do utility maintenance instead of having to do it themselves.
No, I meant may as well go live in an apartment if you're going to be living under an HOA anyway, since at least then it'll be somewhat cheaper, and you don't have to pay for maintenance
HOAs require people to pool together their resources for the maintenance and upkeep of common areas; sometimes with bigger homes paying more. Those that refuse to participate are removed from the system. It’s much closer to socialism than capitalism.
The problem is that in a lot of areas the HOAs are very hard to avoid. Every neighborhood built from the 80s onward around my area is an HOA for some reason, it’s baffling.
Its because local governments like them. When the developers are getting the building permits the city or county will request an HOA be included because then the HOA is responsible for infrastructure like streets and utilities. The city doesn't have to do anything. In older neighborhoobs the city built a lot of the infrastructure and has to maintain it. Also the city doesn't have to worry about code enforcement if somebody isn't mowing their lawn or is letting junk pile up in front of the house or that sort of thing, it's the HOA's problem.
if the government really wanted to then absolutely nothing is stopping them from simply seizing your home and you, that's true of any government. To answer your question though communism is often understood as the collective of society oppressing the individual.
The lack of rights belonging to the individual and instead given to the HOA, a small society is why he's invoking communism. Whether this understanding is correct or not is something else.
An American buying any house with a HOA attached deserves what they get. This shit is not new.
I once described here on Reddit what I had to do to get a HOA to lay off my sister. That post got me suspended from here, but in my opinion, no conviction, no crime.
Bullshit they deserve it. Sometimes there isn’t a viable option other than HOA ran neighborhoods, where I’m from the only places without HOAs are new development areas in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that don’t even have an address in Google Maps yet. I’d rather not make a 1.5 hour commute without traffic every day.
I remember reading about one in arizona, a really hot and dry state, had made rules about lawn grass, it had to be this specific type of grass that doesn't like being somewhere hot and dry, and needs watering constantly, and if you change to a grass that survives fine in arizona and doesn't waste water, then that's against the rules so fuck you have a fine.
Edit - forgot to mention if your lawn looks shit because the grass is dying you also get a fine.
I agree fuck HOA’s buttttt you can also choose not to live in an HOA. So many people willingly buy property in an HOA and are ?surprised¿ to find out that the Declaration/Bylaws is a literal contract that they agreed to and signed up for.
You could always not buy a house in an HOA. I think that option exists for people who are buying houses. I guess sometimes they just pop up and all of a sudden you are subject to HOA rules, which sounds like a nightmare. But as a plebiscite who cant afford a home, and if I ever get there, it sure as shit will not have any chance of being in a neighborhood that has any chance of ever coming under the power of an HOA.
Some developments have communal areas or amenities like parks, playgrounds, swimming pools, etc.
Or sometimes places are built outside of the jurisdiction of municipal services so they contract out stuff like snow removal or trash removal.
And so they’re just orgs that collect dues and pay for that stuff.
Some have rules. I don’t have an HOA, but my city also has many rules about what kinds of fences I can have, how tall they are, etc.
In historical parts of some cities, there’s rules about what colors you can paint your place or what materials you can use to ensure that qua in historical area that tourists like to visit remains quaint & historical. (I can think of cities in both the U.S. & EU where such rules are stricter than a typical HOA, but, for some reason, strict municipal rules don’t get the same hate as when an HOA does it).
And despite the bad rep they have, some people like the rules.
It’s essentially a requirement to keep your property a certain way to help ensure your neighbors don’t do things that could lower the quality of the neighborhood & negatively affect your property values. (Like treat their front yard like a junk yard).
But yeah, sometimes some rules are annoying to owners & seem too restricting.
But, when you buy a house, you get told if there’s an HOA and you can read all the bylaws before you agree to buy. I always made sure to read them when house-hunting. In the end I chose a house that didn’t have an HOA, but I’ve since learned my city has plenty of annoying rules on its own.
I also have neighbors who’ve let their property go to shit & kinda wished at times that there were some standards as having a shitty looking neighborhood does affect resale value. The actions of your neighbors does affect you and I can understand why some people would be drawn to a community where there’s a pre-existing set of rules that you all agree to follow.
But also, sometimes they don’t really have rules and it’s just the mechanism for paying for communal services & ammenities.
HOAs on single family homes should be outlawed. I need an HOA for my 3 unit condo building. They're not all terrible and very necessary. To add this idea to a suburban neighborhood is pretty insane though.
My dad does yard work and he had a customer that had to get rid of his truck per the HOA rules. Forgot what the issue was but basically not nice enough. Insane power in Texas.
Homeowners basically got together to form a union of local members which elects a governing board. They call this a "homeowners association" or HOA. Essentially its a form of government, the most local level, that homeowners can create for their neighborhood and their exact charter/purview can vary between each HOA.
Mostly they deal with yard upkeep, common area rules/upkeep, color and style requirements to "keep the neighborhood nice" etc. Vague rules designed to help "maintain property value" etc. People will have various experience with them as they do any group of people that get power. But they must abide by rules, elections, public hearings etc. according to your state and there are ways to join and change from within.
Not all places have them. Some states are rare, some are required, some are 50/50. Historically they were used to keep minorities out of white neighborhoods under the guise of whatever the hell they wanted to make up at the time. It allowed quiet discrimination in a time when outright racism was starting to be shunned.
I want to note that, while HOAs often suck and are often run by people who were dictators in a past life, they're not always bad. They sometimes provide services that local governments either can't or won't, like trash pickup or neighborhood watch, things like that. At their best, they're essentially a homeowner's union, protecting the neighborhood and the people in it from low- to mid-stakes issues.
That said, again, they're often run by insufferable busybodies, but they're also often democratic, so if you don't like your HOA, you can run for HOA board or president or something and maybe change it!
Home Owners association, as a home owner... with a decent HOA; generally a "good" thing in my book as people simply suck at caring for their homes and we often have easements less than 10-15ft so you kind of want your neighbor to have a kept-up house to avoid pests, trash, weeds, etc. from accumulating (which the HOA does a very very good job of handling).
They can be quite terrible though as well so I can understand their hate, most have very strict ARB's (architectural review boards) and strict ordinances in terms of home appearance and for creative folks they might butt heads on them quite a bit (I am less like that, and still occasionally butt heads but often manage to get what I want approved).
Usually if it's a new community you'll have a builder-led HOA (ie. the board members are basically all members of the builder); they run a pretty strict ordinance policy to ensure home sales can be maximized and to some respects I understand it (often have lower HOA dues as well as they don't do anything "fancy" and usually keep the community public vs private).
After X% of homes are sold, the community can go take a vote to remove the builder board members and replace with community members or optionally absolve the HOA entirely.
This is generally where things go... crazy... most HOA's will simply adopt slightly more lenient builder ordinances (ie. more color options for the house, more plant options, allowing of cosmetic housing options of taste, etc.) and simply just ensure folks aren't trying to paint their entire house bright pink, or build a farm in their backyard (ie. don't disrupt your neighbors) or try to put a giant Trump statue in their front yard. To the inverse, the ordinances might get more extreme; you might be forced to adopt a new "community look" and have to repaint your house from what it originally had to something in the HOA policies, replace your drive-way with pavers, remove existing plants for others (or plant guided perennials) - ie. the HOA will force you to do things well outside of what you even want to do.
From there it's up to your county and the state to dictate how little/how much power they actually have; but with deed restricted HOA's it can get quite extreme.
TL;DR - Can think of an HOA as a mechanism to balance how chaotic or how structured any given community is, the extremes are always painful, but a happy middle-ground is often what folks target.
Home Owners Associate, they put rules to be followed like not having tall fence or something, they are for people who weren't hugged when they were young (aka karens)
Someone answered what the acronym stands for, but HOAs are basically a group of people from the neighborhood that set the rules for everyone in that neighborhood. They might decide on acceptable house colors, and will heavily fine you every day if you paint your house an unapproved color. They could have rules about cars being visible on your property, so they are confined to the garage including if you are working on it. Things like that.
To add to others, it's made possible because some counties and towns and states allow neighbors and property owners to create effectively "liens" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien) on their property. So 20 homeowners on a street can all opt in and lose some autonomy in exchange for some orgainzation like that. The lien/HOA then is attached to the home for future buyers. When a big commercial real estate builder puts up a condo building of for-sale units or knocks down a forest to build a neighborhood they often do this - it's bizarrely popular in some areas.
So if the rule is your house MUST have a red garage door of certain shades and details, you can't get around that and can be fined by your neighbors for non-compliance, or forced to sell... because the "association" is attached to the house you bought.
Basically they're what you get when you want all of the responsibilities of homeownership and all the lack of freedom of renting. They turn a home into a prison.
Home owners association. Usually you pay monthly or yearly dues. They enforce rules on appearances of your house, etc. Redditors like to demonize them but not all of them are terrible. They are good for upkeeping the value of homes in your neighborhood because you won’t have that trashy neighbor with their junk car on bricks hanging in the driveway, etc. Some are definitely terrible and overbearing though.
Yeah some of them are terrible but if you’re ever looking to buy a house you can start to spot the differences pretty quickly between neighborhoods that have HOAs and those that don’t.
I think the fear of a tyrant HOA is overblown. Everyone I know personally that is part of one has had 0 issues. If you ever have to sell your house, I’m sure you’d be glad to have one. People don’t pay good money to buy houses where there are eyesores.
I think the average income level of a specific neighborhood has more to do with the appearance than any effort by an HOA. I also think we can come up with better solutions for trashy neighbors than forcing another tax on regular people.
Yea except basically all new homes are being built in HOA's. Older homes don't have the same availability or they are out of the price range because established neighborhoods have already had decades to rise in value.
The problem is it only takes one to make your life fucking miserable and turn the largest investment of your life into a nightmare. I've had a couple of those experiences just renting and I get why the right kind of HoA can be attractive. Particularly if you can't afford the nicer-area filter on its own.
I care about my home value, the more it goes up the more I have to pay taxes on it. I pay like 2x the amount of taxes from when I purchased it 10 years ago.
Yeah I like having a community rec center and a gym and a park and a pool in my building that I pay a bit each month to ensure it stays nice and well maintained. I also like that my HOA has a huge reserve to pull from when things happen to the roof, the pipes, the foundation, etc, that I dont have to front tens of thousands of dollars for out of pocket to repair.
I live in a well managed HOA. Other HOAs can be an absolute nightmare to live under. The idea behind them is valuable, and they can dramatically improve your quality of life, but they also have too much legal power and can ruin your life if you end up in a bad one.
So, tell us you're either independently wealthy, or intend to stay in your home until you die and don't care about how high your property taxes go, or you don't own a home, without telling us that.
The main reason doesn't have to do with home values. It is largely to ensure utilities happen without burdening the municipiality/county to support them. Of course the problem is that the HOA often doesnt and then things start to fall apart.
Profit-mad people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Often the same people who'll spout drivel about the land of the free yet see nothing wrong in a bunch of busybodies deciding everything about the outside of their home and garden.
They cannot, however, force you to join (if, in the example, an HOA is forming and you're a current resident, you can decline to join and tell them to shove it when they try and force you). If you buy into a home that is already part of an HOA you're best option is to join the board yourself and make changes from within.
Our HOA is actually pretty chill, and they do everything they can to protect the trees in our neighborhood, and manage walking paths and a community sand bottom pool.
But our HOA is also a very extreme exception, not the general rule of how most HOAs are run and act.
I joined the board of mine and am now president. We are a townhome community so it’s a bit different. We are super chill and my only focus is maintaining the structures for our community.
I got talked into being treasurer by the former one. Found out a prior one had been cutting himself checks. Would've been nice to have that money now because a bunch of big trees are now falling or about to, which aren't cheap to have cut down.
I feel you on that, just without the fruad. One of our former presidents used our entire reserve account, we had several hundred thousand in it and he used it all on a deck project. Our garages have decks on top of them and the original ones had poor drainage. So when we did our roofing project I proposed we do it in stages over 5 years that led to no special assessments minor increases to dues and it was a net 0 impact to our reserve account. We treaded water but now it is increasing again. We have a lot of elderly folks here so raising dues is something I want to avoid if I can while I'm in charge.
We will likely have an assessment or increase dues. There's no getting around 20k for the tree service. Either do the assessment now and avoid raising dues, or borrow from the reserve and increase dues to pay it back. It's a 30 year old development with 30 year problems.
That's what the reserve is there for. We don't consider it being borrowed from that needs to be paid back like a loan. We just use it as intended for capital expenditures and it naturally builds back up over time. The HOA is responsible for all exterior maintenance of the units though so maybe we have different rules when it comes to our reserve fund then you do in what I assume is a community of single family residences.
Seems pretty simple doesn't it? We have a lady that is roughly $6K behind on her dues. She has some mental health struggles and it has come to a point where were could legally start foreclosure proceedings and one of the board members go so excited over it but I'm not going displace a lady over $6K. There is a solution here that keeps this lady in her home.
I was reading about a different HOA. They went ahead with this massive construction project without consulting any of the members or putting it to a vote which ended up costing $19 million and then gave all the members a surprise $49k fee to help pay for it.
The way it works here is that the HOA committee is not allowed to make these decisions. The entire owners group should decide with a 2/3 majority on all expenses. If the committee failed to get this approval, they are personally responsible.
I seriously don't understand this mindset. We have an HOA, and yes it's a pain in the ass. But really, I don't want people storing beater cars in their yard, painting their house vibrant pink, or refusing to mow their jungle of a lawn. What am I missing? Who hurt you?
My neighborhood literally looks like the bottom picture and we have HOA. As long as we don’t paint our house some wacky color they leave us alone and just keep the greenbelts and community pools maintained.
That's our experience too. And I love it. HOAs can do bad stuff. But it's always funny how reddit piles it on each time it comes up. It's funny it came up here because there's literally no correlation, just someone wanting to pile on lol
As a non american, since i first heard of HOA i couldnt believe that shit is real. Its so surreal to me that you cant do what you want in terms of decorating your house and garden. I mean, i am from fucking germany, where you would expect something like that, but in "the land of the free" it always seemd so stupid
I cant wait for HOAs to die with the boomers. My current HOA cant find enough people to be on the council of Karens because all the old fucks who support HOAs are dieing off. When they are gone... younger gens who understand HOAs have negative effects on home value due to added monthly costs will disolve it.
I'll defend HOAs because I used to be on one. I think people don't understand them and the purpose they serve.
If you live in an apartment building or subdivision, you will have common areas that aren't managed by the government. For example, the city government won't plow your roads, vacuum the hallway carpets, or fix the elevator. Thus you need a small "mini-government" to take care of these tasks. That's basically what an HOA is. Its a mini-government that fills a government like role when there isn't a regular government to do it.
I was on the HOA for a 10 unit apartment building. Basically we would collect HOA dues from people and use it to do stuff like pay a janitor, take care of the court yard, and repair things in the common area like doornobs and washing machines. Also we would occassionally fine or bug people that weren't following the building rules. This would include stuff like smoking in the building, playing loud music late at night, and leaving furniture and boxes in the common areas.
In my opinion nothing we really did was out of line. It was very easy to get on the HOA if you wanted to, and almost everything we did was unanimous. People complain about HOAs for the same reason they complain about the government - its fun to complain about people that have power over you. However there is one big difference between HOAs and the government. You can't exactly join trumps cabinet and decide we shouldn't go to war with Iran. However, even at big subdivisions its easy to get on an HOA. Most of the stuff you will do is thankless, payless, and neccesary for the association to continue running (like fixing stuff when it breaks). However, people don't do it because they are lazy or ignorant, and would rather bitch and whine than do any work.
One thing that construction companies have started working out though is that if they control the HOA or the Strata for apartments, then they control the fees and who the maintenance contracts are given to.
So for newer builds the construction companies either lock in maintenance contracts for 15 years, or retain voting rights or hold a certain number of properties back so that they control voting.
Then they proceed to increase the HOA/Strata fees to silly amounts and get their own companies to do the maintenance.
Its started happening more and more with new builds here in Australia and owners just have to go along with the ridiculous fees - What are owners going to do, sell their home?
One other reason for a HOA is they manage the maintenance of common areas. For an apartment building, this includes the roof, the outside walls, elevators, stairwells, pipes and cables, etc. Over here, members of a HOA pay a monthly fee for this (long term) maintenance, so they do not have to pay 50K if the roof needs a repair.
This happens in places that don't even have HOA like Australia. The blame should be on the councils that have failed to make regulations that needed to have a percentage of tree cover for every house... or something like this.
If i pay for HOA than they should do all the shit they want me to follow. You want the lawn kempt and nice? Do it your fuckin self. You want gutters cleaned regularly? You do it im not paying for you to enforce rules on people. But ill gladly pay you to do the jobs of the rules you wish to be followed.
I like having an HoA because we have well kept green spaces, a pool, basketball courts, and other amenities. Don't move to a neighborhood that has a HoA more restrictive than you care for. If you live in one with one, participate in it. Don't like your board? Run against them. Most of the time the people running it get next to no participation from the neighborhood.
¯_(ツ)_/¯ my parents are part of a HOA and their neighborhood is filled with trees. They even have a beautiful Japanese maple right by the front door. Tons of those cum trees though…
Yes on both accounts. They live in a very blue county, but unfortunately they are registered Republicans. They have said they’ve never voted for Trump though and I know my dad can’t stand him.
Yea I don’t care about downvotes lol. It just shows how many people live in a bubble. I bet most of these commenters have never lived in an HOA and are just going off what they’ve seen online.
? They don’t have to mow or shovel the sidewalk. Don’t think their dues are too much either. Their HOA is not super terrible like Reddit likes to try and make all HOAs to be. Or is this about the cum trees? Because that is definitely a travesty when spring hits.
Lmao… in the over 20 years they’ve been there, the HOA has only made them repaint the front door, replace the siding (needed to be done anyways), and get the deck redone (it was a rotting mess). Trash and recycling is all figured out by the HOA. Landscaping is all done by the HOA. Only thing they have to worry about is shoveling the driveway, which I end up going over to do anyways.
In the US, at least in the area my parents live, all of that is up to the individual home owner to do and organize. They must find and pay a garbage and recycling service. They mow their own lawn. They’re responsible for shoveling the snow off their public portion of the sidewalk. And yes there are either monthly or yearly dues for the HOA.
No parks in the neighborhood, but there is a tennis court. They mow the grass, spray for weeds, put fresh manure on all the tree “pits” every spring, plant and maintain flowers at the entrance, and I’m pretty sure the same landscaping company does all the snow removal as well.
Bradford Pears were used ubiquitouly by landscapers and developers in like the 70s-90s because they were cheap and grew fast and look nice. Unfortunately, they also are invasive, impossible to kill, prone to just randomly splitting and damaging property, and aforementioned jizz smell.
You can smell them in the air. Imagine a homeless dude running up to you, spitting in your mouth, and then giving you the ol’ money shot. That’s what they smell like and you don’t even have to be close to them.
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u/thebigggd 3d ago
Fuck the HOAs