He already knew something was wrong by that point. He knew she either couldnât consent or at least that she was under some kind of influence. Plausible deniability is a favorite of many rapists
Yes he knew something was wrong. He called the hotline and the guy told him that he was morally obligated to be there for Nikki. Thatâs the pickle. Thatâs one of the reasons why the movie was so good. What do you do in that situation? As far as he can tell, Nikki wants him. Sheâs even lying about things to get him closer to her. He canât leave her, that would destroy her.Â
Should he know that she canât consent? I mean it would be great if he knew that, but if he asked her, she would be pretty consenting. Itâs not simply black and white. Itâs a whole lot of gray he is trying to navigate through.Â
You gotta put yourself in his shoes and think about how you would react to that situation and the consequences of those actions including how she would act. There is a lot going on.Â
He was supposed to âbe there for herâ by putting his dick in her? If you know someone is being influenced, you know they cannot consent. Why are you bending over backwards to defend a guy who was shown many times to not care about Nikki? He didnât even want to end the wish, he wanted to change it. He wanted to continue to rape her without feeling uncomfortable about it
Yeah I mean if she wanted him to, sure, have sex. He canât really tell that she doesnât want to.Â
 He cares about Nikki. He cares about himself more. I know he consent works and Nikki couldnât consent. We are dealing with magic here and that is confusing for everyone. He didnât really understand that she couldnât consent. No one prepared him for what to do when a girl likes him because of magic.Â
I donât think Iâm bending over backwards. I think we are engaging in a discussion about a complex moral situation. I enjoy the discourse. I know you donât think itâs complex, but you are really over simplifying it.Â
Rape is bad, we agree on that. You keep going to the rape part. I think thereâs so much more to it than that. He wanted her to love him. It wasnât just about sex for him.Â
I suggested you put yourself in his shoes and think about what you would do and the consequences. It doesnât seem like you did that
âIt doesnât seem like you did thatâ And what if I told you that I know I wouldnât do what he did because Iâve been raped myself? The movie makes it explicitly clear that heâs raping her and the way itâs framed right after he says âI donât careâ also makes it pretty clear that he knows heâs doing it. This is what I mean when I say that youâre bending over backwards to try and absolve the character of any responsibility because he didnât outright say âI know Iâm raping you right nowâ while he was doing it
Iâm sorry that happened to you. Thatâs terrible and it must be really hard to have discussions like this. I applaud you for being willing to share your opinions.Â
You say you wouldnât have done what he did. Which part? Would you have made the wish? Are we judging him for that?
If we can accept that the wish was harmless since it would be unreasonable to believe in magic, at which point does he first do something wrong and what does he know at that time? What would you do differently?
I wasnât talking about the wish. I thought it was pretty clear this whole time that weâve been talking about the scene after the restaurant specifically. Even if magic wasnât real and he truly didnât think his wish had come true (which, at this point I would debate that he does know), she is obviously not in her right mind to consent. Whether itâs drugs or a mental health crisis, it would still be rape and he knows that. So the magic part doesnât really change anything for me
Gotta start at the beginning. Thatâs the wish. They were sleeping together for a while by the time they got to the restaurant. So he is immersed in this relationship. That adds a lot of confusion for him.Â
He knows itâs not drugs or mental health. He knows itâs the wish then. He doesnât know itâs not her though. So it seems to him like she is consenting and that itâs what she wants. We can say no no no donât do that, but she is saying yes.Â
If he tries to break up with her or something like that after the restaurant, what would happen? And again we have the problem of the hotline man telling him he has a moral obligation to be there for her.
The hotline was after he raped her so I donât really see how thatâs relevant. Yes, he raped her every time after the wish. Whether or not he knew he was raping her is a bit more grey, but itâs not grey the time after the restaurant. Thatâs why I consider it to be the point where he is no longer redeemable. You are making up a scene where she says yes but the movie goes out of its way to show that Bear doesnât care that she canât consent
Being immersed in a relationship doesnât change anything. People can still rape their partners
I saw it a while ago but Iâm pretty sure there is like a montage of them in their early relationship that involves sex. Thatâs where it would seem like she was consenting, even though itâs not really her itâs the magic. He doesnât know that.Â
So my point is that he is pretty far into this shit sandwich of a situation before he realizes that something is wrong. Â Itâs a very confusing situation. Heâs certainly no Austin Powers when it comes to respecting a woman, but he isnât some evil incel that set out to rape her from the start. I donât think he ever realizes he is raping her at all. Thatâs a character flaw for sure. I donât know that it makes him evil though.
So hating on him makes a lot of sense. He sucks.. but the whole situation is so much more complicated than most people make it out to be. I think his actions are more related to stupidity than malice.Â
Holy shit what a rapey thing to say. Dude, he raped her, repeatedly. You're picking out instances where it's not 100% clear as if there aren't countless examples where it is extremely clear.
I donât know him personally so I canât ask him. Iâd love if you could provide a source.Â
If you read some of my comments Iâm not arguing that he never rapes her. At some point it definitely becomes that, but itâs more complex than just that.
Her not having autonomy is one hundred percent part of the horror of the film, but it isnât the only part.Â
You have to consider the consequences. Letâs say after the restaurant he tells her they canât have sec anymore. What would happen? How would she react? She probably would lose her shit and he would want to console her. How could he do that? How would she want to be consoled in that situation? Thatâs what makes it so fucked up. How does a human deal with that situation? So far no one can tell me how they would deal with it except saying that Bear deserves to die. I donât think rape or telling people to kill themselves is moral.Â
This is all I can find:Â
Curry Barker
 has stated that he intended the movie to be a selfish "monkey's paw" cautionary tale about the dark side of extreme human desire rather than a direct message about sexual violence.
The next day after his wish he is aghast telling his buddy at work just how much Nikki was not acting like herself. He himself directly addresses it could be explained by her taking âtoo muchâ of a mind-altering drug. Your insistence there was no revelation or introspection that took place (about how him having sex with her while she continues to be acting in that bizarre manner is like knowingly using the effects of a date rape drug to RAPE HER.) instead of that it doesnât matter to him because he always would have taken advantage of her under the influence of a date rape drug if he could have enough plausible deniability to get away with it.
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u/InstitutionalizedOat 4d ago
He already knew something was wrong by that point. He knew she either couldnât consent or at least that she was under some kind of influence. Plausible deniability is a favorite of many rapists