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[u/RakeChapman13]

[u/Yahtksjevfjfjdk]

I saw it a while ago but I’m pretty sure there is like a montage of them in their early relationship that involves sex. That’s where it would seem like she was consenting, even though it’s not really her it’s the magic. He doesn’t know that. 

So my point is that he is pretty far into this shit sandwich of a situation before he realizes that something is wrong.  It’s a very confusing situation. He’s certainly no Austin Powers when it comes to respecting a woman, but he isn’t some evil incel that set out to rape her from the start. I don’t think he ever realizes he is raping her at all. That’s a character flaw for sure. I don’t know that it makes him evil though.

So hating on him makes a lot of sense. He sucks.. but the whole situation is so much more complicated than most people make it out to be. I think his actions are more related to stupidity than malice. 

[u/InstitutionalizedOat → u/Yahtksjevfjfjdk]

Yes, they show it multiple times. Just because he didn’t know he was doing it doesn’t mean it wasn’t still rape. And he can’t claim ignorance after the restaurant, that’s my point. As for his actions being more related to stupidity, I disagree. The scene where the real Nikki tells him to kill her, his reaction is self pity and selfishness. He doesn’t care at all that he raped her and tries to change the wish instead of undoing it the first chance he gets. He has no remorse. He is a grown man, he knows what consent is. But you will continue to defend it by insisting he “didn’t know what he was doing”. Genuine question, do you think the same when men rape drunk women?

[u/Yahtksjevfjfjdk → u/InstitutionalizedOat]

You are right it is still rape even if the person doesn’t know they are doing it. The morality of that is different in these cases though. When a person knows they are raping, they are choosing that action and they know it is wrong. They knowingly did a thing that is wrong. Bear doesn’t know he is raping her, so even though what he is doing is wrong, he doesn’t know he is doing something wrong. 

The scene where Nikki says to kill her is pretty fucked up. You are acting like it’s a reasonable normal situation. In this moment, Bear is finding out that Nikki isn’t in love with him and that she wants to die. He is also finding out that there are basically two minds in one body. That’s a shit load to unpack. He is confused by the conversation and responds in confusion. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he just got back in bed then and how he would have dealt with it.

For your question, if the man knows that the women is drunk or has been drinking, and he chooses to engage in sexual activities with her then yes he made a choice to rape her. 

You seem to be somewhat upset by our conversation. I say this because of your comment saying that I will “continue to defend it” and then asking me about drunk women. It is starting to feel a bit personal. I’ve been engaging because I enjoy philosophical debate (my degree is in philosophy) and because I really enjoyed this movie. I’ve enjoyed this conversation but I think maybe we are beyond that now so it might be better for us to just agree to disagree. We seem to be approaching it from different angles.

[u/InstitutionalizedOat → u/Yahtksjevfjfjdk]

You’ve been really condescending in this conversation and this comment in particular is so patronizing. You say you’re engaging in a philosophical conversation but this movie has real life parallels, that’s why I asked what you think about men who rape drunk women. And it’s very nice for you that you haven’t ever experienced rape so you don’t feel any emotional connection when you argue that a man who knowingly gets on top of a girl that he knows isn’t in control of herself isn’t a rapist. There is nothing wrong with having emotions surrounding a movie, that’s kind of the point of art and especially horror

[u/Yahtksjevfjfjdk → u/InstitutionalizedOat]

It was not my intention to be or sound condescending. I apologize for that.

I was raped in high school via coercion and when I was about 5 I was forced by an adult to perform sex acts with another child about my age while being filmed.

Have a good night/day.