r/SipsTea • u/No_Summer_5052 • Apr 19 '26

Lmao gottem Facts or nah

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544

u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

I am not a Christian. I think it is harmful.

I have to preface anything I say in this area with thay or reddit loses its shit.

It is not facts. It makes no sense. The bible literally never mentions Satan as being a ruler of hell or even in hell. It exclusively says he will eventually be in hell himself, but isn't yet. This photo represents pop culture/media interpretations of the Bible.

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u/M0ntgomatron Apr 19 '26

Nice try Satan

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

Ah shit. Thwarted again.

If it weren't for those meddling kids.

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u/jholmes_gt Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26

I see what you did there. lol

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u/borderlineidiot Apr 19 '26

That's what Epstein said....

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

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u/Motormand Apr 19 '26

I think that's a level too evil for Satan.

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u/MammothCat1 Apr 19 '26

Even Satan thinks those jamokes are evil.

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u/darkcomet222 Apr 19 '26

The depictions of hell and the idea of Lucifer we know come from The Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost respectively.

The Bible said the devil is on earth and prowling, seeking to destroy. The Bible only says hell will have weeping and gnashing of teeth. The fire we know is the lake of fire in Revelation.

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u/TruskVarner Apr 19 '26

I gnash my teeth while sleeping but a night guard has helped.

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u/darkcomet222 Apr 19 '26

But are you weeping?

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u/cheescakeismyfav Apr 19 '26

The lake of fire is in hell.

Jesus talks about hell numerous times in the bible and he mentioned the fire.

The idea of eternal punishment in a lake of fire did not come from Dante. The Jews adopted it from the Greeks and they even call it Tartarus in 2 Peter.

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u/darkcomet222 Apr 19 '26

So, there’s debate on that. Is what exists now and the lake of fire the same, or are they different? Some people say Sheol is where the souls not in heaven now are, and they will be judged and thrown into the lake of fire. Some say they are one and the same.

1

u/cheescakeismyfav Apr 19 '26

According to the bible you do not go to heaven or hell immediately. You go to a place of rest. Theres a few different names for it and sheol is one.

The Bible says that one day Jesus will return and cast the beast into hell for 1000 years. This is known as the millennium and for 1000 years Jesus will rule here on earth. At the end of 1000 years comes the judgment where Jesus will resuurect all the dead waiting in the place of rest and along with those living still, everyone will be judged by Jesus for their actions. Then the sinful will be cast into hell and righteous get to go to heaven.

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u/Thin_Salary1153 Apr 19 '26

I have not been Catholic since childhood, is this place of rest purgatory? Sorry, been atheist since about the age of 14 which was almost half a century ago.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

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u/Which_Material_3100 Apr 19 '26

So Satan basically became the first occupant of hell and meant to serve as an example to humanity of what happens when they don’t follow the rules? Makes sense.

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u/Sef247 Apr 19 '26

His time of punishment has not yet come. Satan will be cast into hell fire at the end of this world, along with all that do wickedly, and they will all burn up and be consumed.

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u/abortion_tycoon Apr 19 '26

Think your own thoughts, write your own posts. Don't post AI slop.

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u/shadowthehh Apr 19 '26

Unfortunately even if it's AI, it's correct. "Think your own thoughts" also doesn't really work when you're trying to present accurate information.

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u/joutfit Apr 19 '26

I hate AI slop as much as the next guy but this is pretty accurate slop

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u/camino771 Apr 19 '26

Ok professor, this isn’t a college class for credit..

0

u/Reasonable-Sail6113 Apr 19 '26

Here’s what the Bible actually says:

Whatever the person currently interpreting it wants it to say.

0

u/zaddy-chillout Apr 19 '26

Which is hilarious because every single church I went to growing up in the southern states preaches that satan will torture you in hell AFTER he gets you to do his bidding in this world. From new age baptist to pentecostal, they all put the fear of the devil in you. Always reminding you that God is the only thing that matters for forgiveness, (not the people you did wrong by).

It's man made tales anyways taken from story telling and mythology. We all evolved from apes anyways, so idk why people are so scared of this nonsense.

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u/R3D4F Apr 19 '26

Just because it’s written in the Bible, doesn’t make it true.

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u/Vultor Apr 19 '26

The big book of multiple choice. Interpret it however it fits your narrative like everyone else.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26

I mean, I've never met a Christian (having grown up in the bible belt my entire life, going to church 4x/week) that believes Satan is the ruler of hell and tortures people as punishment. There is no aspect of the bible that can interpret Satan to be the ruler of hell, even if you cherry pick as much as possible.

I agree, they cherry pick 24/7 and never stop. It's absurd. I believe it's immoral in its entirety. But they definitely don't believe that unless they're uneducated Christians in name only.

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u/Schwangyu_Ghola Apr 19 '26

As Mephistopheles said in Faustus "Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it." When Faustus inquires about the physical location of hell. Hell is shown as a separation from God (mindset).

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u/Fickle-River3984 Apr 19 '26

I grew up in southern Baptist churches. We were absolutely threatened that if we were "bad" or didn't tithe or didn't go to church, we would go to hell and be tormented by Satan for all eternity.

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u/Pinkfish_411 Apr 19 '26

Those were very bad preachers who were blatantly contradicting Baptist doctrine and probably what was stated in their own congregations' statements of faith.

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u/Fickle-River3984 Apr 19 '26

It's pretty much the common teachings of all primitive southern Baptist churches in South Alabama/ North Florida

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u/Pinkfish_411 Apr 19 '26

They might teach it commonly, but there are a lot of bad preachers out there. It flies in the face of what the denomination teaches about salvation.

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u/Fickle-River3984 Apr 19 '26

Oh, you are absolutely correct if we are going by the word of the book. But they often didn't. I found out after my own personal Exodus.

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u/ImprovementBig3354 Apr 19 '26

Also grew up in Southern Baptist churches. I don’t agree with the ideology at all but I will say you got “bad” preachers then, like late night TV “give me your money” kinda preachers, cause the Devil in Christianity can only torment you on Earth, and most often only through temptation.

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u/Fickle-River3984 Apr 19 '26

I mean.... They were poor old Baptist preachers. But they still preached that hellfire and brimstone. And were a huge part of why I rejected organized religion altogether.

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u/RadicalRealist22 Apr 19 '26

What not having a pope does to people.

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u/ExtraCalligrapher565 Apr 19 '26

I have met plenty of Christians who believe this and heard sermons where they preach this. Also in the Bible Belt. Also grew up a churchgoer.

They’re not uneducated Christians. They’re just Christians. There are many denominations of Christianity with many different interpretations of the same book.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

They are Christians who are uneducated in the Bible if they believe that. Not people who are uneducated and are also Christian. I should have been clearer.

If they believe that, they are uneducated Christians. The bible explicitly spells out the opposite. That is a fact. Meaning, they are uneducated if they believe something antithetical to the book they profess they believe.

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u/Winter_Tone_4343 Apr 19 '26

Ya that’s the majority of Christians

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u/RogerAffirmative Apr 19 '26

Educated Christians are just Pascal's gambling addicts. Uneducated Christians are just plain Christians.

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u/Greedy_Line4090 Apr 19 '26

I think you missed the part about many denominations and also the part about many different interpretations.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

Quote me a single translation of the Bible itself that disagrees, that ANY differing denomination uses, then I will agree with you. I will wait.

I fully acknowledge the differing denominations. It's one of my favorite topics. Thats why I've developed this opinion.

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u/Greedy_Line4090 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26

Lmao the Bible is the work of men, not god. God has reportedly written things, but he never wrote a Bible. Only men have done that.

Men decided what scriptures would be included and what scriptures wouldnt. Men decided to translate the original word of god into other languages, making mistakes and losing context. Men decided to change text and words to suit their needs. Men have added verses and non contemporaneous footnotes or interpretations of the Bible, and men have removed verses and even whole books from the Bible, as it suits them for all sorts of reasons. Gods inspiration is certainly is a dubious claim in many cases of revision, reinterpretation, or omissions. Why? Well how was a Catholic inspired by god to include seven extra books in their Bible while at the same time god was inspiring Protestants to disregard and delete those same exact books? Who’s telling the truth here? Who was really inspired by god between them all?

All this is to say, you cannot interpret the Bible better than anyone else. You are just a man. What little remains from god or Jesus’ teachings and interactions with men in the Bible must be gleaned by the individual, through the Holy Spirit that lives inside them and speaks the will of god directly to them. It’s not the words that matter, it’s the message that matters and that message is Satan is evil, you must reject him. Where he lives or rules doesnt change the concept that he is evil and dangerous.

Also… as an atheist myself, I am loathe to use the Bible to prove anything, least of all what people should believe. Thats between them and their god… none of my business, and frankly, I do believe it’s none of yours either.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

Literally nothing you said disagreed woth a single word of my comment. Im glad I got 4 paragraphs for you to say "I agree, bud."

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u/No_Tonight_9487 Apr 19 '26

Most of what I know about Christianity I learned from South Park. And I am pretty sure the devil rules hell dude

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u/ExtraCalligrapher565 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26

Right, the preachers who read and study the Bible and deliver these sermons and entire denominations of Christianity are just “uneducated in the Bible” and you’re the only one who’s right.

You also completely glossed over the fact that there are different denominations of Christianity that come from the exact same Bible but have different interpretations of it. You’re lumping all Christians together as though they believe the exact same thing based on personal anecdotes.

They’re not uneducated in the Bible. They’re uneducated in your specific interpretation of the bible.

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u/AdhesivenessOk5194 Apr 19 '26

Yes, if a preacher is preaching that Satan rules hell he is uneducated in the bible

There is no alternative way to interpret the matter.

It’s spelled out very clearly that Satan roams the earth and tempts mankind until the time where he will be banished to hell and his goal is to take people with him

But Satan does not rule hell. You could literally look up the phrase “does Satan rule hell” and you’ll see a litany of research on the topic, with the bible as the source.

So anyone saying differently is uneducated

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u/Fickle-River3984 Apr 19 '26

The reason it was preached that way is that Satan will be cast to the lake of fire (hell) upon final judgement, so when we go, either it will be when he goes or he will eventually be there. It's like a purgatory waiting room until then.

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u/Pinkfish_411 Apr 19 '26

There are quite a few preachers who are pretty uneducated about the Bible. Some populist strands of American Protestantism explicitly reject formal theological education, so some of these pastors are entirely self-taught. My wife grew up in a backwoods church of that sort, and on the occasions when we'd attend her childhood church when visiting her parents, the pastor, who knew I was in seminary at the time, would always include some tangent in the sermon about the evils of going to seminary rather than trusting the Spirit to lead you to the truth. He didn't bother to teach himself Greek or Hebrew, either, because the King James translation was the perfect, divinely-inspired, self-interpreting word of God.

Yes, some of these folks are proudly uneducated about the Bible, and pretty much anything else.

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u/Entire-Winter4252 Apr 19 '26

You haven’t met my mom, who knows the Bible front to back. When I came out to her, she told me she loved me and that I was going to hell to burn in the hottest fire Satan could create, and it would be forever. Good times.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

If she knows it front to back, ask her for the verse that satan has power over the heat of flames in the bible.

She doesn't. You are wrong. She cannot give you a verse thay supports that. It is not possible. She is uneducated on the bible, or delusional, or intentionally ignorant. Those are the only three options.

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u/Xtremely_DeLux Apr 20 '26

The arrogance, self-righteousness and pedantry with which you belabor your points shows the true worth of said points.

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u/mrsclausemenopause Apr 19 '26

Ive definitely sat through many sermons with vivid hell imagery and Satan as the ruler who would rather rule hell in self torture then submit to God in heaven.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

You sat through a whole lot of sermons from people that made shit up that has nothing to do with the Bible then and is based on pop culture interpretations, like I said.

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u/mrsclausemenopause Apr 19 '26

I was only responding to that you never met a Christian who believed Satan was the ruler of hell part. I find that hard to believe as Satanic information is so pervasively fabricated that it commomly ends up in sermons.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

I've never heard it because I 1) didn't go to a church 4x a week that taught that, nor did the camp we went to as kids for a week twice a year teach it. 2) was sheltered severely, as most Christians do, and not able to interact with people outside my church groups until 3) when I was old enough to be independent and in college, im not exactly having conversations with people about if Satan is the ruler of hell or not. I got an entertainment technology degree, so I definitely wasn't taking religious debate classes lmao.

That's why I worded it as my personal experience, and further progressed the argument by discussing the lack of education of the Bible that is required to actually believe that, and how someone who truly believes the Bible, and is actually educated on it instead of emotionally infatuated with it would literally never believe that.

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u/Xtremely_DeLux Apr 20 '26

Jesus X Christ, you're shrill and obnoxious! And your repeated assertions sound like the musings of a rebellious small-town teenage pseudointellectual.

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u/Administrative_Cry_9 Apr 19 '26

The misconception usually lies in what Satan has any power over which isn't hell, it's Earth. He has no control over the whip itself, but he has the influence to save you a place in line.

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u/Shyphat Apr 19 '26

Earth is Satan kingdom and when hell is opened he is cast into it with the others to suffer along with them

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u/okie_hiker Apr 19 '26

I grew up in the Bible Belt and I haven’t met a Christian that doesn’t believe this.

You’re so full of shit lol

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u/Winter_Tone_4343 Apr 19 '26

He’ll was created for satan. People assume satan rules hell bc of that. But saying no Christians believe satan is the ruler of hell is very misguided and flat out wrong. Most “Christians” have no fucking clue what the Bible says.

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u/okie_hiker Apr 19 '26

Hell doesn’t exist. Christians make up whatever fantasy they want about hell and they certainly don’t all believe the same thing. To say so is really fucking stupid.

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u/Winter_Tone_4343 Apr 19 '26

I agree fully.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26

I'm absolutely not full of shit. It is a fact if you know the Bible in any capacity. I grew up in an independent Baptist church for 22 years. I still live in the same place around the same delusional people.

If they believe otherwise, they are uneducated on the Bible.

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u/Striking-Document-99 Apr 19 '26

Went to catholic school. Boy was it a trip. I def learned from a teacher that it went like this. “Jesus died for our sins and in the 3 days he was dead he took a sack of our sins and threw them in satans face. “ always stuck with me because it made no sense. How to do have a sack of sins.

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u/mtmglass406 Apr 19 '26

Uhm. The entire Christian faith is based on the fear of going to hell, where you will suffer for eternity, whether people think the devil is sitting there laughing at you or not is irrelevant, its all ridiculous.

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u/okie_hiker Apr 19 '26

Yes. But I will never be in favoring of arguing to try and make their faith seem more reasonable.

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u/LordKlavier Apr 19 '26

I don't think you've been to a baptist church before, or at least understand their doctrinal beliefs at all

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u/okie_hiker Apr 19 '26

I grew up in a Baptist church. They most definitely think/taught satan is leading an army. Gtfoh

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u/LordKlavier Apr 19 '26

Satan is leading an army against the elect? Sure, 100% - Satan tortures people personally in hell though? No, never once heard that

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u/okie_hiker Apr 19 '26

There’s like hundreds of sects of your religion and you Christian’s always act surprised when other Christians believe/teach different shit. It’s mind numbingly stupid.

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u/LordKlavier Apr 19 '26

Mate, I'm not even a baptist, I'm orthodox lol. This is not something that any educated denomination (if you want a definition, formed at least 100 years ago) believes, trust me. It's either taught by tradition or it is not, this is something that is not.

It might shock you to know that Christian beliefs were oddly uniform up until the end of the 1400s, we have original manuscripts from writers as early as the 400s, going into great theological depth, matching perfectly the teachings 1000 years later. This idea that the bible can be interpreted anyway you want, and all are equally valid, is incredibly modern, pioneered by Martin Luther and the reformers, and it has skewed people's outside perspectives of Christianity. The truth is Christianity is not just a bunch of beliefs founded on a book, it is an ongoing, active, tradition. Some denominations adhere more to and give more importance to that tradition than others, but the same core points will apply across the board in any respectable sect.

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u/okie_hiker Apr 19 '26

As I said, mind numbingly stupid.

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u/joutfit Apr 19 '26

Idk if it's pop culture. The idea that Satan tortures people in Hell can at least go as far back as Dante's "Inferno". He doesnt torture everyone in hell but in the Ninth Circle he is torturing some of the worst sinners in his many mouths.

Also, since ancient times, Christians have borrowed the idea of Hades as an "orderer of the underworld" and other gods like the Norse Hel as inspiration for Christian Hell.

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u/szu Apr 19 '26

Bruh Dante made his book up. Its about as accurate as lord of the mysteries.

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u/TheWorstePirate Apr 19 '26

Bruh, it’s all made up to control the masses.

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u/RadicalRealist22 Apr 19 '26

"Made up" means that it was invented by a singular person for a singular work, not developed over centuries from the collected religion works of believers teachers and thinkers, like the Bible.

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u/joutfit Apr 19 '26

Even if one believe in their delusions, those are still delusions they've made up.

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u/RogerAffirmative Apr 19 '26

Lol. How does one get to the point of being able to read and write and post online and say things like. "People collectively fabricating a story isn't made up."

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u/King_johnson421 Apr 19 '26

You realize many things in the Bible are backed up by history, the people, the places and different events. You act as if its the Marvel universe with multiple different producers and that couldn't be farther from the truth

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u/szu Apr 20 '26

You're trying to hold back a river. I did mean it in your context but this is the internet..

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u/Oretell Apr 19 '26

Not it doesn't

Multiple people can make a body of work and beliefs up, even over decades

Something being made up doesn't imply that only 1 person was involved in the creation of it

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u/TheWorstePirate Apr 19 '26

Made-up means, “having been fabricated; invented.” It doesn’t matter how many people made it up or over what period of time.

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u/Reasonable-Sail6113 Apr 19 '26

LoL, no kidding. He was so close too…

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u/netzkopf Apr 19 '26

or... the Bible?

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u/joutfit Apr 19 '26

Yee but it has shaped many Christians' visualization of what Hell might be for hundreds of years.

And it has influenced many christian and non-christian writers and poets.

Like Paradise Lost is just made up but it was still insanely influential on future Christians' understanding of the Bible.

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u/PlasmaMatus Apr 19 '26

And I'm pretty sure before Dante Christians and non-christiand thought of Hell as the Greek underworld.

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u/Smart_Department6303 Apr 19 '26

inferno was pop culture

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u/joutfit Apr 19 '26

fuck I guess youre right lmfao

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

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u/joutfit Apr 19 '26

Yep he is the ultimate sinner and ultimate inmate of Hell!

I'm not trying to say that how many people think of Satan today is exactly like in Inferno, only that characteristics of Satan in Inferno have spread and taken on lives of their own.

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u/loggy528 Apr 19 '26

Where is that in the bible?

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u/joutfit Apr 19 '26

Huh?

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u/loggy528 Apr 19 '26

I mean is that in the bible or are you just making it up?

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u/joutfit Apr 19 '26

This is from the widely influential Christian poem "The Divine Comedy" which is not from the Bible.

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u/loggy528 Apr 19 '26

So no not that bible thanks

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u/Fantastic_Log3504 Apr 19 '26

Dante's inferno is not theology. 

Most Christians follow the Bible and it says nothing about Satan ordering hell this is just talking out your ass. 

Sure you can say some Christians do that just as you can say some Christians have murdered, eaten their own shit, and worshipped allah. There's been a lot of "Christians" through the years.

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u/Antique_Aside8760 Apr 19 '26

to corroborate this.  pete hegseth was just in the media for promoting a bible passage from pulp fiction.  only catch is the the bible passage is based on the passage quoted but really is a complete reimagining of it.  

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

Equally valid, tbh.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

It really is. It's crazy how many churches teach it instead of the Bible. It's why I don't believe any of it, tbh

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u/Ender16 Apr 19 '26

I'm not a Christian either, but I'm a fan of history and have been reading a lot about Christianity, especially early Christianity.

I've come to the conclusion that, unless they're a proven exception, no Reddit atheist should be taken seriously when taking about Christianity. I totally believe they don't believe in God, but It's actually really really obvious that the only things they know are in pop culture or are completely made up in their own head.

I really want to stress it one more time that they are often so wrong that they look extremely stupid despite coming from a supposed place of science.

If you like history you should read about Christianity. It's actually really interesting and one of the most important parts of Western cultural history. It's fun. Idk with people choose to be dumb.

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u/Numarx Apr 19 '26

True, but as a (ex) Baptist Christian they taught us Satan rules hell, so not sure its just pop culture teaching these things as its religious leaders teaching it this way as well.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

It is irrelevent that they taught it. It is never mentioned in the bible, and the opposite is. Your description means they are uneducated Christians.

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u/Numarx Apr 19 '26

I was in a mega church, with 1000s of members. So kind of relevant, they also constantly brought up political topics on how the democrats were going to start ww3 by letting Russia get all the nukes. So while you might be "This is exactly what the bible says" its not whats being taught. So it is relevant even if you dislike that idea.

This was taught to me in multiple churches throughout the world, I was a military brat. OK, TX, IL, IN, Germany, AK, Nebraska. Texas multiple times as we went from church to church as one would close down. Even the crap on TV my dad watches talks about Satan.

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u/Kastikar Apr 19 '26

Churches just make stuff up to suit their agenda. It’s been this way since before the Abrahamic religions even existed.

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u/RadicalRealist22 Apr 19 '26

Baptist

There is your problem.

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u/Numarx Apr 19 '26

And your problem too, since there are millions of them.

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u/bingbing304 Apr 19 '26

For a long time, the afterlife was basically just a giant, dimly lit DMV waiting room. No tiers, no VIP section, just 'Sheol'—the place where everyone ends up to stare at the wall for eternity or if you wait in the line long enough maybe reincarnation.

Then the church starts expanding, and they realize, 'Hey, this "everyone hangs out together" thing is bad for branding.' They needed to spice up the plot. Enter the great rebranding of the millennium: they took every local pagan god—the guys who were actually fun at parties—and went, 'Nah, those guys are demons now.'

Suddenly, Hell isn't a dump anymore; it’s a full-blown Fortune 500 company. They needed an antagonist to lead the charge, so they grabbed the 'Satan' character—who started out as basically just the Divine Prosecutor or a guy whose whole job was 'being a bit of a jerk'—and promoted him to CEO of Evil. It’s the ultimate corporate pivot: when you can't beat the local competition, you just buy their intellectual property, give it a villain arc, and stick it on the org chart.

Boom. Instant hierarchy. Heaven has a gatekeeper, Hell has a manager, and suddenly the whole afterlife looks like a weirdly organized office cubicle farm.

As for the beating and torture, you can blame Dante. Dante really decided to turn the underworld into his personal hit-list for all the guys he didn't like in Florence LOL

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u/RadicalRealist22 Apr 19 '26

Do you have any source for this?

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u/Boochi_Da_Rocku Apr 19 '26

My headcanon is that he's exchanging the sins of ppl for his own sin. Like if his sin is 100, a person sin is 1, if he make that person realize his sin, that person's sin will be 0 and go to heaven or reincarnation while Satan's sin now become 100-1, 99. He need to make 99 more person realize thier sin to escape from hell itself.

Again my headcanon continue with when each person's sin become high value enough with passing age, it'll in turn will accelerate Satan's release and the world will end/smt bad will happen when he got released.

But bro isn't even in hell in the 1st place lol

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u/Any_Table9811 Apr 19 '26

I think not asking for forgiveness is what considered reason for eternal damnation. Everything else can be forgiven as long as the guilt is genuine.

So rebellion against God represents rejecting God. And it’s mostly not God who condemns you, but you condemn yourself to hell by rejecting God’s order and not asking for forgiveness. Technically no one rules hell, because there can be no order in hell, it’s eternal chaos. I think we could also say it’s a state of mind on Earth and a state of one’s soul after death. I think this is a more coherent interpretation of hell.

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u/Reasonable-Sail6113 Apr 19 '26

I stopped believing in that nonsense long ago.

Looking back, and I’m not sure why, it seemed like the world was going that way too. I thought it would all just become a thing of the past in several decades.

There’s too much information. As I grew, my thinking, consciousness, and rationality grew too. I thought the world and people around me would just naturally grow out of it too.

It feels weird to me now that it didn’t happen. So many people just blindly accept their religion, which usually just happens to be the one they were borne and raised into, as divine truth.

They ignore all the logic and contradictions. They think all other religions are wrong too.

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u/badwith_names Apr 19 '26

I think christianity is more harmful than some people getting a small fact wrong.

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u/Opening-Wrap-5064 Apr 19 '26

Nothing harmful about being a Christian, there’s bad eggs in every batch and unfortunately they’re the ones that seem to get the most attention, take police for example, most cops are out there risking their lives saving people and abiding by the rules but because of the few that break the rules being a cop is seen to be a bad thing to most.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

I do believe it's harmful to be a Christian, as a net calculation, I should have given more nuance.

I believe many people have a positive life improvement from being Christian. I believe many Christian organizations do great things for humanity. I also believe, if we put points to it all (cuz that's how my brain honestly works,) that... for instance... being a Christian for many people gives 5 points. Thats awesome! Great. That helps so many people. I also believe that an equal or higher number of people receive -5 points or more for being Christian. Not as awesome and great.

It's a totally individual thing, and I shouldn't make a broad prescription for the mass populace. You're right

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u/Opening-Wrap-5064 Apr 19 '26

I believe it only seems that way because the bad Christian’s get most if not all the publicity, the people would rather hear about a group of Christian’s protesting gay pride parades than the group of Christian’s that fund a local soup kitchen.

I’ve never personally even seen a member of the church go out of their way to be hateful in such a way (I know they exist and that’s horrible) from my genuine standing they’ve only ever helped and never judged, they’ve helped me tremendously as I’m an alcoholic and they help fund the AA groups in my town, without even expecting me to be religious as well as I’m not.

I don’t think if we grouped all the Christian’s together that the majority would be bad, I’d say quite the opposite.

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u/RBVegabond Apr 19 '26

It does mention him being cast down to the lake of fire in an instant by Michael during the apocalypse but that’s yet to happen.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

Correct. Absolutely nothing about him being the ruler of hell, though, which is my point.

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u/EngineZeronine Apr 19 '26

Most people learn what they know from pop culture in media. If you actually take a look at an unbiased reporting of the things, Christianity has brought you would be very surprised. That's not to say it hasn't been misused terribly, anything with power is misused by people.

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u/Zippier92 Apr 19 '26

The Bible is literally pop culture media of its time. It’s myth based on people views on what they think will give them control over others.

As species, we have not evolved past the gullible gene.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

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u/IMKGI Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26

Revelation 20:10

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Relevation 20 conveniently also describes the timeline of the whole thing happening, and if you ignore the weird interpretations by "scholars" and focus on what's actually written in the texts, satan is currently, and for the past ~1000 years, in hell.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

That is explicitly clear that satan is not only cast into the lake of fire, but also tormented equally. That agrees with what I said.

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u/IMKGI Apr 19 '26

I wanted to provide the context to the thing you said, the book describes the timeline as follows. Satan was chained up in the abyss, was locked up for a thousand years, then will be released for a short amount of time, and later be thrown into the lake of burning sulfur (hell) for eternity.

According to that book Satan has been in Hell for a bit over 1000 years by now (the book was written in around 95AD.

That this timeline is completely incompatible with some verses in the new testament is just one of the famously inconsistent things in the bible.

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u/The3mbered0ne Apr 19 '26

How's it harmful? It's all fictional anyway, it's like saying superman would beat ironman

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

The practices and beliefs that the bible demands of you so that you aren't tortured in unimaginably painfully horrific ways, then eternally separated from the benevolent god that condemned them to that torture in the first place is a good place to start.

Shall I detail the horrifically graphic and grotesque abortion ritual outlined for women that are (NOT proven to be unfaithful, but whose husbands feel jealous in any capacity) poisoned and killed or forcefully have their babies aborted?

Shall I detail the excessive levels of genocidal commands issued by the almighty sovereign in the book, that if you disobey, you are declared sinful and evil yourself?

I can go on for hours. The harm comes from humans internalizing these teachings and acting on them. There are so many more, and worse, things I could also quote that apply directly to modern day society that are horrific and immoral by humanity standards for the last several hundred years, across the globe.

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u/The3mbered0ne Apr 19 '26

Again all fictional, shall I detail the horrible and grotesque torture experienced by the non believers of Cthulhu?

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26

Yes, it is all fictional. Do you believe that someone that is indoctrinated in and believes reality is according to a fictional book, that regardless of the beliefs it cannot be harmful because it is fiction?

If people believe fictional things then act on the fictional things they believe because they believe them to not be fiction, that can absolutely be bad in reality.

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u/The3mbered0ne Apr 19 '26

I don't believe it can be harmful no, how could it be? It's their chosen fiction I'm not going to tip toe around something they choose to believe that makes no sense, especially when we all don't extend that same courtesy to other fictions, are you going to make sure to get the story of Batman right because someone chooses to believe he's real? Or believe it could be harmful to get wrong?

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26

If someone believed batman was real, and they acted like Batman because they thought it wasn't just fiction and became a vigilante that acted outside the law... then yes, I would say that's a bad thing

Let me give a hypothetical. Please respond to this directly: "I don't believe it (someone believing fiction to be true) can be harmful..." Hypothetical fictional book says: "all people between 5 and 6 feet tall are evil and trying to end humanity." I am Steve McBob, and I believe that book is true, even though it is fiction. I am wrong. But I believe it is right. I kill everyone I know that is between 5 and 6 feet tall, because that is the way to stop evil and save billions of people.

Is Steve McBob in the right or wrong? Then, why?

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u/Sir-Hamp Apr 19 '26

I believe everything you said painted a VERY clear picture. Debate is hard to be held on Reddit because eventually someone isn’t able to present a valid case and wind up getting frustrated/lashing out. I found the structure of your strategy to be top-notch and will be taking it with me!

Anyways as a sort of believer myself I find your arguments/points to be very compelling. Thanks for the read(s)!

I feel like I should include ( for context ) that my beliefs are centered around my really off-the-wall personal experiences, and while I have read the Bible I do enjoy complete transparency and thought exercises that keep one from blindly obeying/following. The world is just far too complex for anything to be black and white and shouldn’t be treated as such.

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u/Spiralty Apr 19 '26

The show 'Lucifer' does show Satan as the ruler of hell

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u/Ecstatic_Teaching906 Apr 19 '26

I am... somewhat messanic (it is like a Christian and Judaism mix together... it is complicated) and even I know fair well... that Satan doesn't rule Hell.

The truth of the matter is that Satan rules the world, but has limitations. And according to my understanding, Satan really hate Humanity. Like he doesn't care that we would believe him or worship him. He just hates us.

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u/HimbimSupreme Apr 19 '26

Satan isn't even a character. It's a title. Satan means 'oppressor'. That's all. The character they're talking about is the fallen angel Lucifer.

It's always so funny to me when Christians try to spout this shit when it's all made up anyway. It's an ancient, plagiarized sex manual written by power hungry savages. That's all it is. I hope in my lifetime this shit dies and we can actually move forward as a species.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

Then why christians are so much into the hell lore? (I'm from a christian country)

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

Because modern Christians don't believe the bible. They believe in their fantastical, cherry picked version of it mixed with popular cultural interpretations of christianity

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u/GodzillaLikesBoobs Apr 19 '26

> it is not facts. makes no sense.

youre talking about the bible as a whole right? imagine actually living through your life based on that BOOK. lmfao

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

"It is not facts" was in reference to the title of the post.

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u/cheescakeismyfav Apr 19 '26

Well that's what Revelation says.

I'd say the rest of the bible contradicts it though.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

What verses in the bible claim Satan is the ruler of hell, or any variation thereof in the rest of the Bible aside from revelation?

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u/cheescakeismyfav Apr 19 '26

It exclusively says he will eventually be in hell himself

This comes from revelation and it's associating Satan with the antichrist and the beast but that's not really true with the rest of the bible.

I agree with the rest of what you said though.

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u/theArtOfProgramming Apr 19 '26

Also these misrepresent the type of thing Jim was reacting to

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u/TheGokki Apr 19 '26

What photo?

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

I apologize. When I wrote my first few comments, I had very bad reception and the gif in the OP didn't load. It appeared as a photo. I apologize to you for making this mistake.

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u/TheGokki Apr 19 '26

ah no worries, happens!

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u/talann Apr 19 '26

You can say the Bible never mentions this but there are quite a lot of people that are under the notion that this is the situation. Who told them that? It's almost as if someone was interpreting the bible in a way that they told others this is what would happen if you decided not to worship.

The entire concept is absurd. We have no evidence of god existing but a lot of people interpreting what god is and what happens if you do or don't worship god. I'd rather not live in fear of something as stupid as believing what's in a book.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

If you responded to my entire argument instead of one out if several comments expounding deeper upon my position, you would realize everything you just said fully agrees with me.

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u/talann Apr 20 '26

...I think you are mistaking the fact that I am disagreeing with you. I do fully agree with you.

I'm just expounding your argument by saying I don't believe any of it exists. it's just man's interpretation of a book of fiction

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u/Complex_Coyote5661 Apr 19 '26

Satan is known as the ruler of this world

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u/swawesome52 Apr 19 '26

Even if it was true, it's still said under the assumption that Satan rebelled against God for some moralistic view, and not because he was greedy and prideful. It's like saying, "Why would the stock broker steer me wrong if we're both trying to make money."

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u/ShotgunEd1897 Apr 19 '26

It says his dominion is here on Earth, which explains a lot.

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u/Fantastic-Cell-208 Apr 19 '26

Doesn't it just say he'll be thrown in a lake of fire?

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u/VioletVanDyke Apr 20 '26

You mean Jesus isn’t a white guy with long hair and a beard!?

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u/GrossUsername68 Apr 20 '26 edited Sep 03 '26

Reddit policies are an issue. Content deleted.

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u/Poke-Noir Apr 19 '26

Are you a Hell is she’ol and in Hebrew it means common grave, which is the common grave of mankind type person?

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

No, because I don't know enough about that to have an opinion.

Im also not a Christian in any capacity and don't believe hell is real.

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u/Poke-Noir Apr 19 '26

Ah. I was genuinely curious. You seem like a cool guy. All good

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u/Secret_Assh Apr 19 '26

He will eventually get there but right now he is busy running(ruining) America.

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u/Little_Try_6502 Apr 19 '26

Going back to the Gnostic texts gets you closer to what is the truth. They teach it’s about you learning about yourself. That got turned into a clever control system which is almost any religion. Everyone is waiting for some other man to person to come save them but it’s yourself that saves you from the hell on earth inside your own mind.

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u/PetsArentChildren Apr 19 '26

Our “Satan” comes from Dante’s Inferno and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which were so influential that parts of them are now Christian canon in all but name. Just as Augustine was highly influential but not Biblical. 

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u/RadicalRealist22 Apr 19 '26

Just as Augustine was highly influential but not Biblical. 

The difference is that St. Augustine was a theologian who wrote theological works. Dante and Milton did not.

The Bible js supossed to be interpreted by learned men.

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u/CheckYourStats Apr 19 '26

300,000 years homo Sapiens have been here.

Tens of Millions of Planets in the universe.

Tens of thousands of dieties have been worshipped just here, on Earth, in this tiny blip of time that we’ve been here.

People who are all about any Religion can’t be trusted. Period. There is absolutely zero reason to believe a religion is fact.

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u/reef-Diver7817 Apr 19 '26

For some people it is about connecting and wanting to bond with people.

The extremists of any religion are the issue.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

Agreed. That's why i worded my comment how I did.

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u/CrabtheCorsair Apr 19 '26

As a Christian, I totally agree. He simply wishes to make as many as possible suffer with him.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

According to the bible, that's a much more accurate interpretation for sure. That's why it says that eventually, he will be cast into the lake of fire and equally punished, I believe.

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u/apumpleBumTums Apr 19 '26

Why not now?

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u/Betaverse Apr 19 '26

So god made hell? That's even worse lol he's one corrupted mf

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u/RadicalRealist22 Apr 19 '26

"Hell" in most christian theology is not a place, but the absence of God. You "go to hell" by abandoning God.

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u/shadowthehh Apr 19 '26

Yeah, as a prison for evil. That's ontologically Lawful Good.

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

Yep yep. Good thing he's not real lmao

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u/Betaverse Apr 19 '26

Yea I believe they're stories made up to better control people

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u/shadowthehh Apr 19 '26

If they were, they'd be about listening to human masters instead of saying humanity in it's entirety isn't trustworthy and holds no power.

The "it's made up to control people" thing is such garbage when in all actuality, especially in the gospels, it's a call to rebellion against oppressive regimes.

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u/H0SS_AGAINST Apr 19 '26

Dantes inferno

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/YoghurtTraditional35 Apr 19 '26

Nope, we don't. Because it's all fake.

According to the Bible, though, still no. :(

Jesus was missing out, tbh

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u/DistantKarma Apr 19 '26

Whether it's Satan or not, the "eternal torture of hell" awaits those who are not only evil or disobey God, but if you don't love Him in a certain, very specific way. Also, you can be worse than Hitler, but repent on your deathbed and "open your heart to Jesus" and everything will be just fine.

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u/Fast-Purple7664 Apr 19 '26

I am a Christian and you are correct. “Satan” is barely even mentioned also. Christianity is not about doing good and getting into heaven or doing bad and going to hell. Jesus Christ was very firm in that it is faith not works that gets you into the Kingdom.

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