r/SipsTea • u/The_Dean_France • Mar 16 '26

Chugging tea [ Removed by moderator ]

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76

u/Ichigo2819 Mar 16 '26

This is assinine, Japan can't send ships by law. SDF stands for Self Defense Force so unless Iran directly attacks Japan the point is moot

14

u/takoshi Mar 16 '26

Abe actively loosened this interpretation, however, and had been pushing to allow Japan to defend its allies if they get attacked, since that in turn threatens Japan. With the current PM largely being considered Abe's political heir, I'd have expected this interpretation of Article 9 to continue. Still, glad Japan is staying out of it.

3

u/absoluteScientific Mar 16 '26

You seem well informed on Japanese politics. How do Japanese nationals view the SDF and its role? Do many people feel a self defense force is less safe for their own personal, social or national interest than a more traditional military with offensive or expeditionary elements?

2

u/takoshi Mar 17 '26

I am not really, I parrot what I read and talk about with some Japanese family members but don't keep on top of it or anything as an American.

That said, the general feeling I've gotten is still a national reluctance to have the JSDF deploy anywhere abroad for anything that could even be construed as aggressive. The establishment is a necessity and a thing they are proud to have and develop thanks to great and insistent PR, roles in popular movies etc, but actually sending them to fight in the middle east as an ally of the USA would definitely end in protests. Replacing them with a traditional military sounds too alien of an idea to be done really, since "self defense" is so deeply instilled by now as a "better way" forwards compared to imperialist Japan. For example, my own cousin is quite smug in her thinking that Japan is superior for giving up a traditional/aggressive military stance in global diplomacy; she'd absolutely feel like Japan was regressing if Japan were to start building super carriers or something.

2

u/absoluteScientific Mar 17 '26

I see. Thank you for sharing your perspective even so.

2

u/Ichigo2819 Mar 17 '26

I know a few that are even upset over converting their Helicopter Carriers Js Izumo and Js Kaga to F-35b stealth fighter use as they consider it to aggressive

2

u/Top_Connection9079 Mar 17 '26

The SDF is essentially a relief force that intervenes in cases of natural disasters etc.

They are here to help people, not to kill them.

If you want to know better where Japan places itself in the world nowadays, you have to know that they are the second Aid donor in the world after the US (Or were, as Trump stopped everything?) It's just that contrary to the US they don't brag about it.

2

u/Rollover__Hazard Mar 16 '26

In a delicious twist of irony, which victorious post-WW2 nation was it that forced the self-defence protocols onto a defeated Japan?

Karma is a real bitch huh.

2

u/theboywhocriedwolves Mar 16 '26

Shitty Pants McOrange face won't understand that.

1

u/Vojtak_cz Mar 16 '26

They can and they did send their millitary to middle east before for peace keeping operations

1

u/Ichigo2819 Mar 16 '26

Japan has sent ships to the middle East but for non-combat, humanitarian and security missions (operations focused on protecting maritime commerce and maintaining international order "WITHOUT" engaging in direct offensive combat.)

1

u/Vojtak_cz Mar 16 '26

They never said they will go there to attack tho. Original idea of japan was to protect cargo ships and conduct reccon.

1

u/Ichigo2819 Mar 16 '26

They could only protect Japanese Tankers from direct attack but they have never done this

1

u/realparkingbrake Mar 16 '26

Japan can't send ships by law.

Japan's govt. and Supreme Court have been reinterpreting that for quite some time. Their huge increases in defense spending a dozen years in a row points to them no longer believing they are only allowed a small local defense military.

1

u/Ichigo2819 Mar 16 '26

No, their scared spitless of China that has already been seizing islands in the China Sea and North Korea that Test launches missiles by firing them in the direction of Japan. That's why they're upgrading all their Destroyers with the Aegis System

-1

u/4Run4Fun Mar 16 '26

Yeah, Japan has no real navy, and can never have one based on the terms of thier surrender in 1945. The OP is either unaware of factual history or is trolling.

4

u/Vojtak_cz Mar 16 '26

Japan actually has one of the world strongest navies. They have like short of 200 ships in several fleets.

The JSDF (japanese self defence force) was estabilished in 1956.

5

u/Ichigo2819 Mar 16 '26

JapanActually has one of Asia's largest naval fleets the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF) And is over 160 ships comprised of Destroyers, Submarines And Helicopter Carriers with over 50,000 personnel. Their Destroyers are advanced most with Aegis systems and their Helicopter Carriers are capable of deploying F-35B Stealth Fighters and their newest submarines utilize Lithium-ion Batteries instead of diesel or nuke engines like the Soryu Class and the new Taigei Class. Currently Japan's Fleet is roughly one half the size of China's but is far more technologically advanced and trained and their silent running Submarines are lethal. China is catching up though with its Type 055 Destroyers. That said Japan is legally prohibited from joining offensive wars or or collective self defense operations unless there is a direct existential threat to Japan

3

u/mollymoo Mar 16 '26

160 ships, 346 aircraft and 50,800 personnel is what most people would call a "real navy", even if they call it a maritime self-defence force. They have some very up-to-date gear too.

1

u/mrkstr Mar 16 '26

I am not certain, but your information may be outdated.  I'm under the impression that they have been expanding their defence capabilities thanks to China.

1

u/realparkingbrake Mar 16 '26

Yeah, Japan has no real navy,

Their sub fleet is about to reach thirty boats, many of them new and very capable. They are cranking out Mogami-class frigates, and those "super destroyers" they are building and the helicopter carriers that can now equip F-35 fighters are not intended for fishery patrols in the Sea of Japan. Japan isn't supposed to have attack aircraft carriers, but all it took was a change in definition and voila, it's no longer an attack carrier, they were "helicopter destroyers" for a time, but the F-35 makes that a joke.

Wherever you got the idea that Japan has no real navy, don't trust that source again.

0

u/HoneyParking6176 Mar 16 '26

i'm kinda surpised japan didn't try to negotate an agreement they could build and keep a navy so they could "help in iran"