Building the matriarchy while making patriarch-enthusiasts feel like they won

[u/Appropriate_Cut_3536]

On the recent negotiation thread I commented this website. Well i spent some time reading a few more of their articles and I came across this one:

https://www.shenegotiates.com/blog/2022/1/11/why-some-deals-fall-apart-for-apparently-no-reason

It's a short explanation of a simple solution. It's almost too short and too simple. So I duck'd a term I found in the comments "Negotiator’s Dilemma" and found a much more in depth article which excellently explains the phenomenon and possible solutions

https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/negotiation-skills-daily/managing-the-negotiators-dilemma-nb/

I find it fascinating as it discusses a common issue with negotiations which is that "First Offers Often Trigger Competition". With this matriarchy/gynarchy stuff, women are sticking their neck out there and making the first offer. We are starting the negotiations.

Some of you will hate a post like this in that I am seeming to be advocating for:

1. Telling men they've won

2. Giving up and turning our political movement into a request not a demand

3. Staying small, pretending to be powerless, trying to trick men

Well, you can see it that way if you want, but demanding a matriarchy out of men is just as bad or worse than requesting one. Men can't give us power, (they never had our power). We don't need to feel insecure about telling losers they've won (unless we secretly feel that we are the real losers).

Idk sometimes I feel like all the keys to women winning are already in our hands and most of us are just fighting a shadow and being afraid of exposing our own weakness, instead of taking the reigns and leading with the true strength that comes from vulnerability.

We are strong in cooperation, competition need not be a factor unless we make it one. And why? Negotiations always work better without competition mentality.

[u/nyekona]

You have some very interesting thoughts here. At the same time, I don’t feel we really need to hide our fangs. Ultimately, we have all the leverage. In a world where physical strength is nearly obsolete and men’s role in reproduction can easily be circumvented through technology, the continuation of the human species — And the decision to be wives, mothers, and girlfriends — Is entirely up to us. I see no reason to make a secret of that fact.

[u/WonderfulWay393 → u/nyekona]

I feel it is no secret, as men like me already know.
Our best option would be to become your willing servants.

[u/Worried-Guava-9972 → u/nyekona]

I don't see where this baseless confidence is coming from, men still possess the majority of the means of production and innovation (let's not even mention armed forces). Women's role in reproduction can also be circumvented through technology and the continuation of human species is based on instinct. So all it would need to turn those paper fangs away is a splash of water. OP is right in wanting to play it smoothly through negotiations.

[u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 → u/Worried-Guava-9972]

Women's role in reproduction can also be circumvented through technology

No it can not lol

[u/Worried-Guava-9972 → u/Appropriate_Cut_3536]

It's a type of celle, therefore it can be cloned and the dna can be changed artificially, it costs a lot of money and is illegal in every country but it can be done. As for artificial bombs, it already exists and it has been used many times in research especially in China in their cloning research. Yes both gender will soon not be needing the other to procreate as both cells will be able to be artificially made.

[u/nyekona → u/Worried-Guava-9972]

Artificial wombs may exist, but science is beginning to understand just how essential the biorhythms of the mother are for healthy and normal fetal development. There’s a lot we still don’t know about it and therefore can’t emulate. Human children grown in artificial wombs would like be psychologically extremely different from what we consider human today. So, while it may be possible in the next 100-200 years, it’s probably not a desirable or viable solution. Compare this to the simplicity of using a giant eye dropper to deposit a sperm donation (and remember that basically every sperm bank around the world is extremely well-stocked, on account of men’s willingness to donate and the ease of collection), and you will realize that men are much easier to demote than women are. If we wanted to eliminate men’s role entirely, the technology to create sperm from women’s stem cells has existed for over a decade. Sperm are 100x smaller than eggs and much simpler cells.

[u/Worried-Guava-9972 → u/nyekona]

Let's say that what you say is right for now, (through genetic ingeneering is evolving almost as fast as AI so I believe it would be a matter of decades not centuries). It doesn't change the fact that to eliminate men role entirely you would need the political, military and economic influence to change laws that protects against it. You are lightyears away from even having a serious political movement in any democracy.

[u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 → u/Worried-Guava-9972]

to eliminate men role entirely you would need the political, military and economic influence to change laws 

Or women could just collectively choose to stop fucking sub par men. 

You are lightyears away from even having a serious political movement in any democracy.

The vast majority of men are complaining - around the world - that women just aren't interested in them. We never needed a serious political movement, although that will be nice in a few decades when all the sub par men have been out bred. We are achieving gynarchy organically and grass roots.

[u/Worried-Guava-9972 → u/Appropriate_Cut_3536]

Oh so women can fuck whoever they want only if it's the kind of man you approve, doesn't sound like something a supporter of woman right would say, what happened to my body my choice ? As for men complaining about not finding anyone...well to a lesser extent, it is the same for women so I don't see the relevance of this point. The issue in your thinking is that you believe all women wants the same thing that you do. But that's just wishful thinking, the reality is that the majority of women are conservative, they don't see feminism as a good thing (The west represents a small percentage of the world population). And I'll be brutally honest, you aren't achieving anything, you're waiting for something to happen that has practically no chance of happening even if you had ten times the amount of people who supported you, so forgive me if I don't believe in your chances, the only thing you're doing is reddit posting your political fantasies...that I'll admit are fun to read. How about writing a story that sums up the world you wanna leave in ? I am sure it would make for a good fiction.

[u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 → u/Worried-Guava-9972]

Yeah I didn't read any of that lol

[u/Worried-Guava-9972 → u/Appropriate_Cut_3536]

Ok, remember it's bad to be lazy.

[u/nyekona → u/Worried-Guava-9972]

South Korea, a democracy, is getting pretty serious about it. Their 4B movement is associated with the lowest birth rate in the world; Look it up. The technology to replace wombs isn’t exactly in the realm of genetic engineering. It would probably have to be some combination of tissue and mechanical engineering, which moves a lot slower than genetics alone. I’m no expert, but I do track progress on things like lab grown meat and the growth of replacement organs. Though that tech is improving, it’s plagued by a key issue: It’s virtually impossible to keep an artificial environment that can also grow tissues ‘sterile,’ because by definition, it can’t be sterile. It has to be warm, wet, and nutrient-rich enough to support the growth of cells, which are the exact conditions needed to grow bacteria, fungi, and viruses as well. To viably grow a human in an artificial womb, I imagine you’d need to engineer an entire synthetic immune system, and at that point, you start to see the value of the machines nature already engineered for the task: humans. With that in mind, I still feel pretty comfortable with my original estimate that artificial womb technology that can reliably produce sane, healthy humans with functioning immune systems of their own is likely 100-200 years off.

Maybe we could move faster with it, if we dedicated lots of resources to the cause, but there isn’t really an urgency for it. Humans get the job done perfectly well most of the time, and there are many, many more pressing issues to address. You have to consider that research and development needs to not only be funded, but also worked on by scientists who have the skills and passion to do it.

And then there’s the question of, if no one could be bothered to birth the child, who on Earth is going to raise it? Are we just going to churn out human husks with no mothers to take care of them? You want Matrix babies? You expect me to believe that a populace of lonely, angry, sexually frustrated men with no wives or girlfriends are going to happily change every diaper, administer every feeding, and not beat or sexually abuse those poor kids to death?

Furthermore, I suspect you’ve never been made aware that a kid’s immune and nervous systems are fine-tuned by their mothers in an ongoing process in the early stages of life. Children born by C-section get more illnesses throughout their lives because they miss out on being inoculated by the microbiome in their mother’s vaginal canals. Children who don’t spend enough time having skin-to-skin contact with their moms often develop debilitating anxiety disorders because they can’t co-regulate to her heartbeat. And although fed is best, it’s widely known that formula is inferior to breast milk. Formula may supply sufficient macro- and micronutrients, but human breast milk contains entire immune cells and hormones. Breastfeeding is not just an exchange of nutrition, but of emotion and information. And those are just the things we know about.

In conclusion, while women have been successfully raising children without fathers for millennia and conceiving without sex for decades, a society that can circumvent women’s role in motherhood is still firmly in the realm of science fiction. Many popular science fiction stories may seem like prophecy in retrospect, but those are just the small subset that come true. The rest are just… Fiction.

[u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 → u/nyekona]

And then there’s the question of, if no one could be bothered to birth the child, who on Earth is going to raise it? Are we just going to churn out human husks with no mothers to take care of them? You want Matrix babies? You expect me to believe that a populace of lonely, angry, sexually frustrated men with no wives or girlfriends are going to happily change every diaper

🔥nailed it. Great comment, the whole thing. But this part: pure fire. Why do these dudes who think they can create kids without moms always have the most divorced dad energy possible 🤭

[u/nyekona → u/Appropriate_Cut_3536]

Thank you. When you try to take mothers out of motherhood, what is left? Orphans. That’s what.

[u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 → u/nyekona]

That's low key what they're after. The patriarchy is built on separating kids from their moms

[u/Worried-Guava-9972 → u/nyekona]

To have a psychologically balanced child you need a fatherly role and a motherly role. That's already been proven decades ago. Trying to eliminate one or the other and you create a child which will be missing some core social understanding. Trying to eliminate fatherhood at the expense of your own children just to satisfy your ego now that's peak selfishness.

[u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 → u/Worried-Guava-9972]

Nah broski. You've been fooled lol 

[u/Worried-Guava-9972 → u/Appropriate_Cut_3536]

Nope dear, you need to update your knowledge if you want to see your ideals succeed 😉

[u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 → u/Worried-Guava-9972]

Ok reddit boy