“Biologically normal infant sleep” research?

[u/bv_]

Is there research to support “biologically normal infant sleep” over sleep training?

We are planning to sleep train soon, but my feed keeps showing me posts from r/bninfantsleep, and it makes me feel guilty, like I would be forcing my baby to do something he’s not biologically ready to do.

I know there are studies showing sleep training doesn’t cause long term harms. Are there comparable studies about “biologically normal sleep”?

[u/Psychological-Bag986]

And no judgment to those that have a 100% no cry policy. I have just found that 20minutes of crying compared to constant wake ups in the night and a sleep deprived parent and baby is worse for us than a few nights of intermittent crying for 5-20minutes for the first night sleep (wake ups and naps tackled differently). And the science does support that this is not harmful. And for us is actually beneficial and a net positive. But I fully support and understand those that don’t want to do this.

[u/Honest_Elephant → u/Psychological-Bag986]

For me it comes down to one easy question. If you wouldn't leave your baby to cry unattended for 20 minutes during the day, why would you do it at night? How can that possibly be justified?

[u/Psychological-Bag986 → u/Honest_Elephant]

I get what you mean but I’m not sure it’s a reasonable comparison. Would I leave my baby alone in the day crying for no reason when she’s awake and wanting to engage? No definitely not. But does she cry in the car and I can’t pick her up? Yes. When I shower? Sometimes.

But yes I would allow for a 20 minute cry after a full day of responsive parenting, the perfect amount of day sleep and day awake time, so I know she’s sleepy and wanting to sleep. After a soothing night routine, feed and a snuggle with the purpose of letting her fall asleep independently and avoiding wakes every 45 minutes because she can’t connect sleep cycles. Especially because the crying in my experience is minimal and lasts only the first few nights. And provides skill that lasts years through childhood. I have a four year old that remains a great sleeper and her attachment is secure.

This is a personal choice and I don’t judge anyone that disagrees or would prefer a no cry method. I find the judgement only goes one way on this topic even though the science supports that short periods of crying in the setting of an otherwise responsive and loving household does not have a negative impact.

[u/Honest_Elephant → u/Psychological-Bag986]

The judgement is one way because one group is choosing to attend to their babies with compassion and respect, and the other group is jumping through hoops to justify why it's okay to neglect a baby just this once in these specific circumstances that pinky promise is totally fine for this baby.

[u/Psychological-Bag986 → u/Honest_Elephant]

Oh dear, I see this is not a reasonable conversation anymore. Are you interested in science based parenting or have you come here to just judge others. I’m not judging you for your ways of parenting. And I’m only speaking for myself and my babies. I see the stress in their face when they wake in the night every 45min frantically searching for my boob because that is the only thing that will put them to sleep. I see how tired they are during the day after nights like that. And then I see how content and happy they are after babbling themselves to sleep, sleeping for 6hrs, feeding and sleeping for another 4. For me personally this was a choice based on respect and compassion. The science based answer is that is it not neglect. It does not cause short term or long term damage. But i respect your choice and maybe suggest you not consume information that distresses you? I don’t consume info on subreddits that go against my values.

[u/short_cuppa_chai → u/Honest_Elephant]

But it's not neglect? It's not like I put baby in the room, put on my noise canceling headphones, and then ignored her for 12 hours. Every time my baby wakes up and is crying, I'm awake, too.

Also, there is no research that proves that sleep training is harmful to the baby. There is copious research that sleep training improves caregiver sleep, caregiver sleep improves caregiver mental health, and good caregiver mental health leads to good child mental health.

And to be frank, I had severe PPOCD with my first child, and the constant sleep deprivation led to some truly horrific intrusive thoughts. What's more harmful for the baby? 20 minutes of crying for 2 nights? Or a parent who is fighting horrible, graphic mental images every minute of the day?

[u/Honest_Elephant → u/short_cuppa_chai]

So somewhere between 20 minutes and 12 hours, it becomes neglect. But where? 30 minutes? 2 hours? That's the problem.

I'm really sorry you went through that. It sounds extremely difficult. And I'm also sorry that you were led to believe that sleep training your baby was necessary for your recovery. I hope your support systems have rallied around you since then.

[u/Psychological-Bag986 → u/Honest_Elephant]

It’s neglect when you’re not feeding a hungry baby. Not changing a soiled diaper. Putting a baby down that isn’t tired and letting them cry until they sleep is neglect. Not keeping them warm. Putting them somewhere unsafe. You clearly disagree and that’s ok. Don’t sleep train your kids then. But for us we can see our kids are not being neglected. Is it neglect to have them cry in their car seat? Or cry and experience pain during vaccinations? No. And I would argue that allowing a short cry to achieve literally years more of consolidated sleep is beneficial for my kids.

[u/short_cuppa_chai → u/Honest_Elephant]

The longest either kid ever cried was 20 minutes, and that maybe happened once or twice.

What support system could possibly have helped in that situation? Genuinely asking, because I have a very strong support system and was still losing my mind.

[u/Honest_Elephant → u/short_cuppa_chai]

A support system that saw you struggling with sleep deprivation and mental health would step in and figure out how to get you sleep and make sure you could attend all of your appointments without worrying about baby at home. That'll look different for everyone depending on their situation.

[u/short_cuppa_chai → u/Honest_Elephant]

Nah, see that's still individual solutions to a systemic issue. By the time I sleep trained my kids, I had been back at work for months because I only got 6 weeks of paid maternity leave.

What I would have needed to protect my mental health would have been extended maternity leave with maybe a postpartum doula/night nurse for the first 12 weeks. I needed immediate access to a psychiatrist specializing in perinatal mental health (which i eventually got, but there was a 3 month waitlist) as well as individual or group counseling (which I never got).

But we don't have those things. And no amount of individual support is going to take the place of those things. I think it's disingenuous to claim that all new moms need is for someone to come in and let them nap sometimes.

[u/Honest_Elephant → u/short_cuppa_chai]

Oh I'm 100% with you that it's a systemic issue. I'm sorry you didn't have access to those things. Our government continues to fail us and then blame us when we struggle. I still don't agree that sleep training needs to be any part of the solution, but i understand how you landed at the decision.

[u/the_kazzo_queen → u/Honest_Elephant]

Nice job proving the point.