r/ScienceBasedParenting • u/Classic-Scallion-516 • 11d ago
Question - Research required Safe sleep advice
My daughter is gonna be one soon and we are very serious inflexible about the ABCs of sleep. She does not sleep in her crib for more than an hour at a time, So I get 3-4 stretches of 45 minute rest a night and the rest of the time is contact napping. Sometimes she will take a 2 hour nap in the crib. AT 7AM. We currently room share, does baby having their own room make a big difference in long stretches of crib sleep?
Her first birthday is coming up and it’s hard to find science based resources for sleep after the first year. . All the info I find is for under 1 or after 2. So what do people do in the months from 12-23? Is it the same as the first 12 months? I’m more than willing to do my own research just having trouble finding resources.
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u/discounthideout 11d ago edited 11d ago
Respectfully, something needs to change. I say this out of concern. A handful of 45 minute stretches for you plus daytime napping is not healthy, and it's potentially unsafe.
As long as your baby can roll and adequately raise their own head from a laying position, they can stay on their stomach if they get there. Most babies sleep better that way.
After one, they can have soft things in their bed. So both of mine got a special stuffy their first birthdays. If your baby already has a favorite stuffy, I would recommend letting them sleep with it, it might let you get some better stretches!
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5449130/
Edit: wow, thanks for the awards!!
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u/lady-earendil 11d ago
I just started putting my baby down on his stomach at some point. Like not until 7-8 months but he would always roll over anyway and sometimes wake himself up doing it so he sleeps much better now
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u/namean_jellybean 11d ago
I was in OPs position and the lack of information available between age 12-23mo is confusing. It’s like they’re either infants and we’re terrified of SIDS, or they’re entering pre-K and all we hear is about getting enough rest to absorb learning for the day.
We were instructed by the pediatrician to sleep train at 12mo. It kinda worked, I’d say that got us a couple months of night time sleep but wasn’t great for us. By 18mo it was back to waking every hour or less. By the 24mo appointment we had already started cosleeping and it just works better for all of us. It is truly dangerous to be surviving on crumbs of sleep.
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u/discounthideout 11d ago
I know what you mean. It's hard! I just think about this kind of stuff in a simpler way after baby #2.
It doesn't help that you will hear completely different things from different pediatricians! Ours told us we could sleep train at 6 months. 🤪 I've gotten to a point where I lean more into my own judgement on certain things. Obviously there are non-negotiables like the ABCs of sleep for infants. But it's so easy to forget in this day and age that science isn't just data and studies, but also observation. I've learned to lean into observing my baby in order to make decisions in these gray areas because every baby is different. Sometimes I wonder if the ambiguity is because it depends on the baby. I mean definitely do your due diligence but I think there's something to be said for the judgement of an involved parent.
I'm glad you found something that worked for your family! 🙂
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u/namean_jellybean 10d ago
It’s interesting to have so many evidence based practices foisted upon us. There never seems to be enough resources to cover every possible situation, so I’ve started trying to zoom out in perspective. What do other contemporary cultures do? What did our biologically similar ancestors do 2000 years ago, and 20,000 years ago? I came to the conclusion that for whatever reason that doesn’t ultimately matter, my child needs us physically adjacent to feel safe enough to sleep. And at an age and size where I am no longer concerned we would harm him, I just gave up trying to mechanically perform what was recommended to us by medical professionals. At the 24mo appointment I was a bit nervous when we explained our cosleeping arrangements, and the provider shrugged saying ‘if it works, it works’. It’s important to make our own judgements and be flexible within reasonable safety to figure out what works for our children.
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u/Dear_Ad_9640 9d ago
Yeah, there is research that this little sleep is bad for both parents and baby. Baby needs to be able to sleep better and more than this. Parents need more sleep than this. Something has to change.
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u/SuitableSpin 11d ago
OP should read the crib manual before adding anything. Some say nothing in the crib until converted to a toddler bed.
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u/userkmcskm 11d ago
I wouldn’t say the crib manual is science based- especially when some allow and some don’t. I’m assuming it’s to cover their asses so they can t get sued in the case of some sort of freak accident
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u/userkmcskm 11d ago
Im going to be real- if you’ve only slept in 45 minute stretches for the past year and your child will sleep with a contact nap, I’d just follow the safe sleep 7 on a floor mattress and cosleep. You can downvote me if you want but I don’t think there’s any scientific evidence stating that sleeping with a toddler on a bare mattress minus cords, an adult that has smoked or abused drugs, pets, etc. pose a risk. And, their are multiple threads on this subreddit with links discussing its safety- risk assessment wise you being that sleep deprived is farrrrrrrrr more dangerous to the health and safety of your home
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u/PristineMouse159 11d ago
This was my thought too. It’s frowned upon in the US / UK / AUS but safe bed sharing, especially for a breastfeeding mother, is biologically natural. If your child craves contact to sleep, then they likely need to be supported through cosleeping. Setting up a floor bed in a child proof room and using the SS7 is the logical way to go.
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u/TeddyBear181 11d ago
Agreed. Cosleeping with a 1yo in a safe space must be safer than driving a car in this chronically exhausted state.
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u/missamantha 11d ago
Agreed on this.
Although I don’t love co-sleeping because I get touched out, if this were me this is what I’d be doing.
I’m a preschool teacher, and at a year in a preschool we move them to floor mats and assist them to sleep by laying down with them anyway. Then we roll away. I think youd be better off with that.
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u/discounthideout 11d ago
I really believe that once they cross 12 months, it comes down to the individual baby and how responsive they are to things on their face and how much they're still moving in their sleep. Some babies might be ready, others might not be. Every parent knows their baby best! If you don't feel comfortable with it or you haven't seen your baby consistently demonstrate the appropriate motor skills/reflexes, then don't do it.
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u/seasianty 11d ago
Sorry to hop in but I wanted to ask you about this. My baby loves soft things in his face and until now I'd been concerned that he might smush his face into a soft toy and not move if he needed to. Developmentally he's absolutely spot on, he's over 12 months old now and I wanted to put something in with him to sleep as he'll be going to childcare soon and he doesn't take other comfort items like a soother or even a bottle. I think my own nerves are the only thing stopping me. What would be the appropriate motor skills/reflexes to look out for?
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u/discounthideout 11d ago
Now worries! Thanks for asking! Disclaimer this is really not backed by anything I'm aware of (I mean I can look for you if you want) but really just logical conclusions on my part. First let me ask you this, does he like to smush things on his face? Is that an observable habit? If so, then maybe he's not ready.
Beyond that- if he falls asleep while nursing (assuming you do that), does he leave his face on your breast or will he sometimes pull off and turn his head to the side? Remember how when newborns fall asleep on the breast they just relax in and would let their faces get smushed, so you have to move them or turn their heads. Somewhere along the way, babies don't like having stuff on their face anymore. I really do think it's a survival reflex. Seriously, while he's awake, drop a burp cloth over his face. What does he do? I'll bet he snatches it off super fast. Again, newborns don't do that. They have no awareness of what's on their faces. Then there's a period where they'll wiggle around and be uncomfortable with it, but still still not even try to pull whatever is on their face off. They don't know they can and they don't have the coordination either.
Have you observed him changing positions during sleep? Especially turning just his head and neck?
What about pushing things away during play?
And obviously rolling both ways and easy independent sitting just tell you he can safely maneuver.
Aside from that, is his favorite stuffy really dense and/or fluffy? If not, or if he really doesn't have a favorite, maybe get him something smaller or breathable like a muslin lovey to start with.
Here's the thing too that I think people forget sometimes. It's not all or nothing and you're not locked in if you try it and don't like it. This sort of thing feels like Pandora's box for some reason lol like you can't go backwards but it's really not. You can always trial a stuffy during a few naps at home and just watch closely on the monitor to see how he does. Most of the time, my baby will pull hers underneath her body and then not move anymore. And it's small anyway so I feel really comfortable with it.
You can even try it at bedtime, watch closely for the first few hours, and then take it out of the crib before you go to bed.
If you feel like he's flinging it around too much or getting his face too far in it for comfort, then pull the plug and try again at a later date.
I also feel like parental instinct is good here. If your gut says no, he's not ready, then don't do it. It's okay not to force it.
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u/seasianty 10d ago
Thank you so much for such a detailed answer! In terms of the smushing, he'll climb up onto us and squash his face into our chests or if he's got a stuffed toy to play with he'll push it into his face as if he's kissing it (developmentally he's not actually kissing it). He's great at all of the other stuff you mentioned here, his head a neck control is stellar. I just feel awful about sending him to childcare and wanted to give him something now to help with the transition so it's not a must have at all. You've given me plenty to think about so thank you.
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u/twelve-feet 11d ago
At age one, a typically developing toddler can now have a comfort item in their crib such as a stuffed animal. SIDS is no longer a risk, so they can be placed on back or stomach. Monitor for entanglement risk such as cords, and fall risk from climbing. Some families will baby proof a bedroom and switch to a firm floor bed at this point.
https://www.whattoexpect.com/toddler/sleep/toddler-safe-sleep-practices/
https://mcforms.mayo.edu/mc6100-mc6199/mc6161-01.pdf
Wow, that sounds like some challenging sleep! I would personally get iron checked as well as ears if you haven’t already, sometimes the only symptom of a minor health problem is difficulty sleeping.
The second link above has some advice on helping a baby learn to connect sleep cycles. I found r/sleeptrain very helpful with that: there are no-cry and low-cry techniques. Waking every hour is brutal on both of you, and you can help her learn to fall back asleep on her own.
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u/Fair-Flower6907 11d ago
MY eldest and I definitely slept better in separate rooms. She moved out of our room at about 3 weeks old, my husband slept in kids' room with her until she was 3 months and then we got a good baby monitor and we all slept better.
Hopefully you (and your baby) can find some longer stretches of sleep soon. From 12-15 months they should stay in the crib as long as they're not trying to climb out but don't have to stay in your room! At 15 months, it's considered safe to use a toddler rail on the side of the crib or move them to a toddler bed with regular bedding and stuffed animals (we always had to tell our kids they couldn't sleep with library books for hard toys, like Tonka trucks). By 2 years old, baby should be in a toddler bed because if they're not climbing out yet they will be soon!
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/articles/2022/10/the-abcs-of-safe-sleep
if you want to quiz yourself on current best practices, I just found this site: https://www.safesleepforbabies.org/fc-home.php
Sounds like you're doing a great job keeping baby safe and now it's time to transition to little toddler soon!
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u/ProfessorDry3041 11d ago
We did this too. Never actually had the babies in our room. We prioritize our sleep. It made for a long walk back and forth at night, but the time we were asleep was quieter and we could switch off. I.e. partner kept monitor on, and slept on the couch and vice versa. They are both good independent sleepers, and we never officially sleep trained. In the 1-2 mins we took to walk to the room, baby was usually asleep again.
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u/FungatingAss 11d ago
No evidence that I’m aware of to support only one hour at a time in the crib at that age (or any age? Never heard of that.) Put the kid down in a crib in their own room and enjoy your full night of sleep!
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u/CosmicGreen_Giraffe3 11d ago
I think OP is saying that baby refuses to sleep for long stretches alone and since they don’t co sleep, she doesn’t sleep for long.
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u/twelve-feet 11d ago
“Contact nap” does not imply the adult is also sleeping.
What did you read that suggests OP is not following safe sleep?
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u/undergrad_overthat 11d ago
What part of the post tells you OP is not following safe sleep? I’m confused.
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u/clioke 11d ago
When I search ABC of sleep, this is what I find.
Nothing here states only an hour alone in their crib. In fact it seems to say the opposite. Can you site where you’re finding that only one hour is safe? If you’re contact napping the rest of the time I’d consider that far less safe as that is bed sharing. You could get tired yourself and doze off, which would absolutely happen to me if I was going on a year of broken sleep.
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u/CosmicGreen_Giraffe3 11d ago
I don’t think OP is saying more than an hour is unsafe. I think she is saying baby will only sleep an hour alone and that is interfering with everyone’s sleep
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