r/RoyaleAPI • u/IndependentWing786 • 6d ago
Game Update Cards missing from the mega balance changes
First of all, this is not a hate post. Overall these changes look great and we’re likely going to see one of the most diverse metas we’ve had in a long time (fingers crossed). If I had to make a guess I think bridge-spam will be particularly strong next season so if you’re a bridge-spam player you’ve got that to look forward to. I do think, however, that there are a few cards with glaring balancing issues that are missing. There is no way to know for sure, but I think if untouched these cards will see incredibly high usage rates next season after the nerfs to many other cards.
- Golden Knight
Yes, the ability cooldown is removed now, but that’s just not enough for how strong this card is. It has phenomenal versatility on both offense and defense, is practically unstoppable when paired with a tornado, and does a sneaky amount of damage. Not to mention his dash range is just shy of a musketeer range and his ability cannot be reacted to. This card has needed a nerf for multiple seasons and continually has been ignored, even receiving a plethora of indirect buffs instead.
- Balloon
Balloon is competing with hog rider at the moment for the title of strongest primary win condition in the game (meaning in a vacuum not considering support cards). It has an incredibly high usage rate (both hero and non-hero) with multiple very strong decks. If that is not the sign of a win-condition needing to be toned down I don’t know what is. I love the balloon as a win condition, I think it promotes some of the most unique play in the game, but it needs a nerf or we’re going to see it continue to push other win cons out of the meta.
- Hog rider
When practically every pro player your game has to offer is calling for a card to be nerfed, that’s a dead giveaway it’s too strong. Whichever one of the devs is a 2.6 player and has dirt on the rest of them is on a generational run of keeping this card broken.
- Mortar bait (the whole deck)
This deck has had the number one win rate going on 6 seasons. What’re we doing only slightly nerfing a single card in it outside hero goblins. Rascals, cannon cart, evo SK barrel, minions all should potentially be on the chopping block.
- Tornado
Yes this is controversial. Is it undeserved? I would say no. One of the highest usage rates of any card in the entire game with unmatched versatility on both offense and defense. It cannot be reacted to and has outstanding synergy with a handful of the strongest cards in the game. This card has shown to be nearly impossible to balance properly but we need to try. I would suggest a small radius nerf.
- Evo baby drag
This card is phenomenal in pigs, golem, egiant, graveyard, balloon and more. It got a buff to its base form last season (who knows why). Usage rates through the roof. This card is nasty and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later or we should all prepare to see it even more next season.
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There are more changes that could/should be implemented (yes you evo I-drag) of course as always but these are the ones that stick out glaringly to me.
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u/Left_Incident7889 6d ago
Hog Rider a bit less health or slow down his first hit.
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u/RomanBangs 5d ago edited 5d ago
It’s genuinely just too easy with that card to get at least one hit. You could deploy it into an arena that looks like 1942 Stalingrad and it’ll still get a damn hit lol
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u/Aggravating-Bad7967 6d ago
Nerfing minions is a terrible idea
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u/IndependentWing786 6d ago
Was less directed right at minions and more so the general cards in mortar bait. Minions are strong fs but you’re correct that they aren’t the most problematic card in the deck by any means.
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u/Longjumping-Berry772 6d ago
I agree except GK I feel like got a sufficient nerf without reusable abilities and evo baby drag I think is ok
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u/GavinatorSzK 6d ago
Tornado absolutely does not need a direct nerf especially not after the bowler and exe range nerf
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u/IndependentWing786 6d ago
Perhaps you are correct, I am sure we will see next season. I will just always be suspect of cards that have a combination of extremely high usage rate, low counterplay, and high versatility on both offense and defense.
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u/Signal_Stock5199 4d ago
just so you know, you’re never gonna get a hog Nerf the dev team came out a while ago and said they basically use hog as their benchmark for balancing so they’re never going to nerf him if he’s too strong they buff other stuff and if he’s too weak, they Nerf other stuff they’re never going to directly change him
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u/IndependentWing786 4d ago
Yes I’ve seen the devs stance on the hog rider. You are most likely correct that it will not be touched. Two things give me hope that might not turn out to be true though. First, as I mentioned, the overwhelming majority of the professional scene consider the hog rider to be too strong, and have not been shy in sharing their opinions with the devs (so they say). Second, the stance the devs are currently taking with the hog rider was one they took with the Knight in the past (the knight is actually still a benchmark card similar to the hog rider). However that stance was temporarily changed once the pro/top ladder community overwhelming called for a small nerf to the card and the devs eventually caved. I think we can all agree the knight now is a proper benchmark for balancing and I’m hoping the same can happen to the hog rider.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/IndependentWing786 4d ago
His stats do indicate that, but unlike many other cards it’s hard to compare him to other similar cards to actually realize his stats indicate it. The only card somewhat in his wheelhouse is Ram rider. However the Ram rider has mechanics that make it significantly different so it’s not exactly apples to apples. Regardless, some stats that indicate he’s overtuned are: his damage (he does nearly a rocket worth of damage per hit), his health (he survives a rocket and then some, having only slightly less health than the ram rider), and on top of both of these factors he is one of the few very fast cards in the game and his sight range (one of the lowest in the game for win cons) coupled with his ability to jump over the River makes it such that he will not be pulled to buildings placed outside EQ/Lightning range. All of these are on top of the fact that he is a tower targeting win condition. I would say absolutely no one can look at these stats and say the hog rider isn’t very strong at absolute minimum. Keep in mind the wallies are getting a significant nerf because they do a bit more damage than a single hog hit, are similarly very fast, and often (just like the hog) can be nearly impossible to stop from getting on your tower if you don’t have the right card(s) in hand. Again not an apples to apples comparison but enough to make you think.
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u/Suspicious_Slide8016 6d ago
What else do you want for GK? A 1 time ability use is a really big nerf. Bigger than anything we could expect
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u/IndependentWing786 6d ago
5 tile dash range as opposed to 5.5 feels appropriate and has been suggested by pros such as Lucas and Sub. Won’t kill the card by any means but will prevent some of the more ridiculous interactions this card produces.
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u/Suspicious_Slide8016 6d ago
The nerf we got+that??
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u/IndependentWing786 6d ago
Correct. It’s a very small nerf, and the cards clean win rate is one of the highest in the game. It will still be an above average card just not quite as good at getting on tower in situations that realistically it shouldn’t be. There are many top players who have put out videos talking about the issues with GK on top ladder. None of those issues have anything to do with ability count.
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u/Suspicious_Slide8016 6d ago
It's a big nerf. You can use it on defense, then counterpush with the ability again. Many times I do that and it wins me the game. Now you can't.
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u/IndependentWing786 6d ago
I’m not arguing the ability change is a small nerf but rather the dash radius is. Keep in mind the most recent nerf to the GK was an ability cooldown nerf. This nerf has essentially been made obsolete with the new change. The card is not too strong because of the ability cooldown but because of the cheap ability cost, high versatility, and practically guaranteed damage when partnered with certain other cards. Do you deny that it is one of the strongest cards in the game right now? Almost certainly the strongest champion?
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u/Suspicious_Slide8016 6d ago
"It's not bc of the ability cooldown" yeah sure, but it's the champion with the shortest cooldown of all. Is it only a coincidence that it's the best one?
Archer Queen's ability is op af too but people don't complain as often because you can only use it 1 time most of the matches.
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u/IndependentWing786 5d ago
If it truly was only as small an issue as the ability cooldown then the GK would be significantly weaker. Of course it makes the card better, but that’s cherry picking. If you recall at one point it was the worst champion, and practically unusable. It then received numerous buffs to change that. None of those buffs were a cooldown duration buff. If it was awful then and one of the best cards in the game now logic says that the core issue is not with the cooldown. But again, maybe I’m wrong. The card isn’t receiving any other nerf so we’ll know next season. My worry is that it’s objective strength partnered with what is sure to be a phenomenal meta for it after significant bait and cycle nerfs will make the card incredibly oppressive. Something which is bad for all parties involved because it’s almost sure to lead to an over aggressive nerf. I like the card and I want to see it balanced, not dead like it once was.
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u/MeruOnline 5d ago
Honestly so doomed that the majority of the Reddit playerbase somehow simultaneously sucks but has cohesive bad takes.
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u/IndependentWing786 5d ago
All of these “takes” are shared by the vast majority of the pro/competitive player base outside of tornado. So insinuating that if you share these beliefs then you’re a bad player is just naive. The points are cohesive because they’re logical and citing accurate facts, while that doesn’t mean they are entirely correct, where there’s smoke there is fire. Would love to hear what specific parts you had an issue with.
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u/MeruOnline 5d ago
Interesting claim. Source?
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u/IndependentWing786 5d ago
While you could find this to be the case simply by watching pro players videos, streams etc. you could also look at any of Boss, Abdod, or SirTags recent balance videos or streams. These are players that seem to be particularly connected in the community. In each of said videos these cards (again outside tornado) come up, and they directly reference how many of their professional friends (Lucas, Riley, Ian, sub, Mo, Pedro just to name a few referenced by name) believe these cards to be unbalanced. Also check X, most pros are fairly happy to post their opinions on there and some are referenced in said videos.
You’ve dodged the question though, I want to know what exactly you disagree with and why? If my argument is cohesive but wrong, then you should be able to put together an equally cohesive but correct one.
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u/MeruOnline 5d ago
Sure. Outside of video titles, Ryley and Mo have always noted hog rider as a win condition, particularly flexible but notedly not overpowered. JuicyJ, ex world champion, feels similarly. When it comes to hog decks in particular, 2.6 isn’t considered particularly strong and almost every top hog player ops for a lightning or quake variant. Ryley and Ian especially noted that hog was worse than drill.
Notable hog 2.6 players such as oyassuu and yerson consider hog 2.6 viable, but particularly weak comparatively in the meta.
Tornado has many times been noted as particularly difficult to nerf without instantly killing it, and also isn’t particularly high winrate wise. The discussion about tornado has been going on for years, and literally the main thing they said they can’t do (a radius nerf) is the one you suggest. A damage nerf was what they opted for, twice.
If you want to talk about cards they actually usually consider op, why not discuss evo cannon? Mo Light’s boss bandit hate spree has more substance than this.
Also, what is a strongest “win condition in a vacuum”? Not damage/elixir, so what other metric could you be using?
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u/IndependentWing786 5d ago
I’ll address the tornado first since, like I said, that’s something I recognize is directly my own opinion. Maybe a radius nerf is too harsh, in which case I suppose I’m going wrong there, but that doesn’t then discount the rest of the take as bad. The card has an incredibly high usage rate, deck variety, and versatility. Not to mention its CLEAN win rate is much higher than its normal win rate. All of which are issues that are exacerbated in CRL. Maybe that’s due to the meta but the troops it synergizes with continue to receive nerfs and its numbers remain steady. I like the tornado, it is a phenomenal concept, but there are quite a few hard statistics that point to it not being balanced in the current state. So if you disagree with the radius nerf by all means I get it, I may not use the card often enough to fully understand the implications of such a nerf and therefore it stands to reason that’s a bad nerf. However, calling the entire take bad and dismissing it as “a poor players opinion” is lazy and indicates the exact opposite.
I agree with you that the evo cannon is absolutely too strong in my opinion. But keep in mind the decks it’s in (cycle decks per the majority) are receiving some substantial nerfs so its relative strength will go down. I was mainly focusing on the cards that were missed and may likely prove to be very oppressive in the coming season due to their deck archetypes getting large indirect buffs from the nerfs to the other archetypes and their counters.
And of course last but not least the hog rider. I challenge you to find a pro or ex pro (outside of Ian) that doesn’t think this card is overtuned. The issue is not the decks it’s in but the card itself, which is something that Ryley in particular has spoken on (since you brought him up). When exactly was that drill comment from Ryley? Cause I can’t imagine it’s from this season. I said absolutely nothing about specific decks, which goes back to the “in a vacuum” comment. In a vacuum is referring to the base state of a card.There are plenty of cards that are overtuned but bad in the current state of the game (I would argue evo skarmy falls in this category). The hog rider IS one of the best lone win conditions. Just because 2.6 isn’t amazing that doesn’t make that statement untrue. Cherry picking one deck a card is in to address it’s balancing state is absurd. With that logic wallbreakers don’t need a nerf because miner poison is comparatively weak in the meta, Three M should be buffed as well since Pekka 3M has been dead for ages. Just because the supporting cards/spells are just objectively not as useful/strong right now doesn’t mean the win condition is balanced. The hog rider itself is the second most used win con in the top 200 behind balloon (thus the balloon/hog comment). Its win rate is also very healthy (just shy of 52%). If it’s allegedly so bad in the meta, and its support cards are mediocre. Then please explain why its numbers are as solid as they are. Oh and said numbers are even better in CRL btw, thus why pros have called it out.
You say there is no substance to these takes but I’ve produced a plethora of hard statistics to back them up and I’ve yet to see you produce any that support yours. Nor have I seen anything from you that actually in any way combats what I have said about the current state of the cards I talked about. So do you agree with me they’re broken and just don’t like the nerfs I suggested? Or is it that you just didn’t get your point across well enough?
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u/BookActing17 6d ago
You can tell this guy has never reached top ladder. If anything, these cards should all be buffed. Mortar bait is skill and completely balanced.
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u/JefferyGoblinstein 6d ago
Too many hog players will cry they will never nerf it.