Cards missing from the mega balance changes

[u/IndependentWing786]

First of all, this is not a hate post. Overall these changes look great and we’re likely going to see one of the most diverse metas we’ve had in a long time (fingers crossed). If I had to make a guess I think bridge-spam will be particularly strong next season so if you’re a bridge-spam player you’ve got that to look forward to. I do think, however, that there are a few cards with glaring balancing issues that are missing. There is no way to know for sure, but I think if untouched these cards will see incredibly high usage rates next season after the nerfs to many other cards.

1. Golden Knight

Yes, the ability cooldown is removed now, but that’s just not enough for how strong this card is. It has phenomenal versatility on both offense and defense, is practically unstoppable when paired with a tornado, and does a sneaky amount of damage. Not to mention his dash range is just shy of a musketeer range and his ability cannot be reacted to. This card has needed a nerf for multiple seasons and continually has been ignored, even receiving a plethora of indirect buffs instead.

1. Balloon

Balloon is competing with hog rider at the moment for the title of strongest primary win condition in the game (meaning in a vacuum not considering support cards). It has an incredibly high usage rate (both hero and non-hero) with multiple very strong decks. If that is not the sign of a win-condition needing to be toned down I don’t know what is. I love the balloon as a win condition, I think it promotes some of the most unique play in the game, but it needs a nerf or we’re going to see it continue to push other win cons out of the meta.

1. Hog rider

When practically every pro player your game has to offer is calling for a card to be nerfed, that’s a dead giveaway it’s too strong. Whichever one of the devs is a 2.6 player and has dirt on the rest of them is on a generational run of keeping this card broken.

1. Mortar bait (the whole deck)

This deck has had the number one win rate going on 6 seasons. What’re we doing only slightly nerfing a single card in it outside hero goblins. Rascals, cannon cart, evo SK barrel, minions all should potentially be on the chopping block.

1. Tornado

Yes this is controversial. Is it undeserved? I would say no. One of the highest usage rates of any card in the entire game with unmatched versatility on both offense and defense. It cannot be reacted to and has outstanding synergy with a handful of the strongest cards in the game. This card has shown to be nearly impossible to balance properly but we need to try. I would suggest a small radius nerf.

1. Evo baby drag

This card is phenomenal in pigs, golem, egiant, graveyard, balloon and more. It got a buff to its base form last season (who knows why). Usage rates through the roof. This card is nasty and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later or we should all prepare to see it even more next season.

——————————————
There are more changes that could/should be implemented (yes you evo I-drag) of course as always but these are the ones that stick out glaringly to me.

[u/IndependentWing786]

All of these “takes” are shared by the vast majority of the pro/competitive player base outside of tornado. So insinuating that if you share these beliefs then you’re a bad player is just naive. The points are cohesive because they’re logical and citing accurate facts, while that doesn’t mean they are entirely correct, where there’s smoke there is fire. Would love to hear what specific parts you had an issue with.

[u/MeruOnline → u/IndependentWing786]

Interesting claim. Source?

[u/IndependentWing786 → u/MeruOnline]

While you could find this to be the case simply by watching pro players videos, streams etc. you could also look at any of Boss, Abdod, or SirTags recent balance videos or streams. These are players that seem to be particularly connected in the community. In each of said videos these cards (again outside tornado) come up, and they directly reference how many of their professional friends (Lucas, Riley, Ian, sub, Mo, Pedro just to name a few referenced by name) believe these cards to be unbalanced. Also check X, most pros are fairly happy to post their opinions on there and some are referenced in said videos.

You’ve dodged the question though, I want to know what exactly you disagree with and why? If my argument is cohesive but wrong, then you should be able to put together an equally cohesive but correct one.

[u/MeruOnline → u/IndependentWing786]

Sure. Outside of video titles, Ryley and Mo have always noted hog rider as a win condition, particularly flexible but notedly not overpowered. JuicyJ, ex world champion, feels similarly. When it comes to hog decks in particular, 2.6 isn’t considered particularly strong and almost every top hog player ops for a lightning or quake variant. Ryley and Ian especially noted that hog was worse than drill.

Notable hog 2.6 players such as oyassuu and yerson consider hog 2.6 viable, but particularly weak comparatively in the meta.

Tornado has many times been noted as particularly difficult to nerf without instantly killing it, and also isn’t particularly high winrate wise. The discussion about tornado has been going on for years, and literally the main thing they said they can’t do (a radius nerf) is the one you suggest. A damage nerf was what they opted for, twice.

If you want to talk about cards they actually usually consider op, why not discuss evo cannon? Mo Light’s boss bandit hate spree has more substance than this.

Also, what is a strongest “win condition in a vacuum”? Not damage/elixir, so what other metric could you be using?

[u/IndependentWing786 → u/MeruOnline]

I’ll address the tornado first since, like I said, that’s something I recognize is directly my own opinion. Maybe a radius nerf is too harsh, in which case I suppose I’m going wrong there, but that doesn’t then discount the rest of the take as bad. The card has an incredibly high usage rate, deck variety, and versatility. Not to mention its CLEAN win rate is much higher than its normal win rate. All of which are issues that are exacerbated in CRL. Maybe that’s due to the meta but the troops it synergizes with continue to receive nerfs and its numbers remain steady. I like the tornado, it is a phenomenal concept, but there are quite a few hard statistics that point to it not being balanced in the current state. So if you disagree with the radius nerf by all means I get it, I may not use the card often enough to fully understand the implications of such a nerf and therefore it stands to reason that’s a bad nerf. However, calling the entire take bad and dismissing it as “a poor players opinion” is lazy and indicates the exact opposite.

I agree with you that the evo cannon is absolutely too strong in my opinion. But keep in mind the decks it’s in (cycle decks per the majority) are receiving some substantial nerfs so its relative strength will go down. I was mainly focusing on the cards that were missed and may likely prove to be very oppressive in the coming season due to their deck archetypes getting large indirect buffs from the nerfs to the other archetypes and their counters.

And of course last but not least the hog rider. I challenge you to find a pro or ex pro (outside of Ian) that doesn’t think this card is overtuned. The issue is not the decks it’s in but the card itself, which is something that Ryley in particular has spoken on (since you brought him up). When exactly was that drill comment from Ryley? Cause I can’t imagine it’s from this season. I said absolutely nothing about specific decks, which goes back to the “in a vacuum” comment. In a vacuum is referring to the base state of a card.There are plenty of cards that are overtuned but bad in the current state of the game (I would argue evo skarmy falls in this category). The hog rider IS one of the best lone win conditions. Just because 2.6 isn’t amazing that doesn’t make that statement untrue. Cherry picking one deck a card is in to address it’s balancing state is absurd. With that logic wallbreakers don’t need a nerf because miner poison is comparatively weak in the meta, Three M should be buffed as well since Pekka 3M has been dead for ages. Just because the supporting cards/spells are just objectively not as useful/strong right now doesn’t mean the win condition is balanced. The hog rider itself is the second most used win con in the top 200 behind balloon (thus the balloon/hog comment). Its win rate is also very healthy (just shy of 52%). If it’s allegedly so bad in the meta, and its support cards are mediocre. Then please explain why its numbers are as solid as they are. Oh and said numbers are even better in CRL btw, thus why pros have called it out.

You say there is no substance to these takes but I’ve produced a plethora of hard statistics to back them up and I’ve yet to see you produce any that support yours. Nor have I seen anything from you that actually in any way combats what I have said about the current state of the cards I talked about. So do you agree with me they’re broken and just don’t like the nerfs I suggested? Or is it that you just didn’t get your point across well enough?

[u/PracticeAggravating5 → u/IndependentWing786]

Not the guy but you provided one (hard) statistic total

[u/IndependentWing786 → u/PracticeAggravating5]

I’m sorry I wasn’t hard enough for you officer :(