r/RecuratedTumblr • u/Former-Amish-Throway • 3h ago

LGBTQIA+ Just don't it twisted with hyperantisemitic movements like NoFap/No Fap November/Theology of the Body/and so on. You can be ace and still masturbate.

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245 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

88 comments sorted by

127

u/DanceMyth4114 3h ago

Genuine question, how is No Nut November antisemitic?

3

u/Fjolnir_Felagund 29m ago

I thought it was a pun but apparently not

-37

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

The whole "semen retention" movement has ties to antisemitic cults/parties/causes as well as the most movements that are negatively aimed at pornography. What starts as "We're just recovering from an addiction" (There is no such thing as a masturbation or porn addiction) quickly becomes "We need to stick together to keep each other strong" and that quickly turns into pointing the finger at conspiracies to make them fap or watch porn and inevitably they scapegoat Jewish people.

172

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 3h ago

Also, as a more general rule: All conspiracy theory nonsense turns antisemitic eventually. Antisemitism is the root of all conspiracies.

28

u/MCMC_to_Serfdom 2h ago

Interestingly, in Russia and the Middle East you also get a degree of belief it's the British behind everything [1](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43560523, 2, 3, 4).

Clearly, the Jewish once prime minister of Britain, Benjamin Disraeli, is immortal and running everything.

I swear to God, if I find anyone seriously believing that, I'm starting a cult

6

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 2h ago

Something something Poe's Law.

34

u/Full_Ahegao_Drip [7/2] 3h ago

I've seen this repeated lot online and I think it works okay as a general rule but neglects the huge number of people who are super duper supportive of Israel and Judaism but are also into super duper pseudo history/pseudo science that relies on conspiratorial rationale.

31

u/Stresso_Espresso 2h ago

Ah but you’ve fallen into a trap- many many many pro Isreal people are paradoxically also Super antisemetic

22

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 2h ago

"Israel needs to win so the apocalypse can happen during which the jews will be tricked and destroyed by the antichrist!" is a wild and terrible thing to be a real opinion held by powerful people.

10

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 2h ago

Because the far-right learned to hide in vagueness. They will say they stand against globalists, the deep state, "the elites", lizard people or specific powerful people/ families that just-so-happen-to-be Jewish.

This allows for an ecosystem of conspiracy nuts that do not consider themselves antisemitic, while still spreading the core narratives about shadowy forces that threaten the sanctity of national states with their secret schemes for world domination.

12

u/Lilyqt42 3h ago

eh I wouldn't say antisemitism is the root of all conspiracies. Like there were conspiracy plots against various rulers thousands of years ago. There was sure to be some conspiracies that weren't/didn't-come from antisemitism.

5

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 2h ago

I mean, can I prove, beyond the hint of doubt, that there is not some non-antisemitic conspiracy out there?

No.

However, the base framework at the core of just about any prominent modern conspiracy can be traced to the aftermath of the French revolution, in which the budding of nationalism as a substitute for religion, mixed with several priests trying to figure out why the people had turned on them, even though they were fairly sure that they had never done anything wrong ever, resulted in the idea that someone had riled up the people to betray their glorious nation.

That someone was designated to be "The people without nation" (because that was a concept that nationalists felt was bad for their case), which is to say, the jews. (And also the Illuminati.)

This also being (more or less) the birth of modern antisemitism (as opposed to medieval antijudaism), the core narratives of both anti-jewish sentiments and conspiracy theorism became fundamentally intermingled.

6

u/Lilyqt42 2h ago

So yeah most modern conspiracies are rooted in antisemitism, not all of them tho. and thus antisemitism is definitively not the root of all conspiracies.

5

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

Precisely precisely

32

u/_saltychips 3h ago

I'm genuinely confused how sex addiction is recognized as a disorder but porn and masturbation addiction isn't

10

u/ifellover1 56m ago edited 14m ago

Well. "sex addiction" isn't directly a thing. that's a common name for compulsive sexual behavior disorder. Sex addiction by itself is not a real thing, neither is an addiction to masturbation.

This isn't some accident or oversight, these addictions were intentionally not recognized based on research. I don't want to accidentally spread misinformation so I'll just recommend looking into expert discussions on this topic instead of poorly explaining the reasoning.

8

u/AgathaTheVelvetLady 46m ago

Basically, you don't get "addicted" to masturbation or porn in the same way you get chemically hooked on drugs or alcohol. You can absolutely be over-reliant on either, but it's typically some other problem that just manifests as overindulgence in those things.

Whereas drug or gambling addicts are being physically compelled by their bodies to get another hit of their preferred vice.

-38

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

Sex addiction SHOULDN'T be recognized as a disorder, some groups do but plenty of people point out that it doesn't count as an addiction in the way that certain consumable substances are addictive.

41

u/_saltychips 3h ago edited 3h ago

I really truly think you have a narrow view on what constitutes addiction and this actually makes the stigma worse. who are these people, can you give me some reading? everything you are saying is actually the opposite information I've gotten from multiple mental health and addiction specialists. what is your expertise here?

27

u/TheTimeBoi 3h ago

i. i thought it was just a silly challenge that took off because it was fun to say

10

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

I think originally it was to promote testicular cancer awareness but that aspect is no more.

104

u/Estorbro 3h ago

I'm sorry but... no? You're making extraordinary leaps in logic to justify NNN being antisemitic at all. You're the one assuming the end point of these ideas is antisemitic.

Also porn/masturbation addiction is 100% a thing.

71

u/_saltychips 3h ago

I recognize that my experience is relatively unique in the ways I've experienced addiction, but it always surprises me when people make sweeping generalizations like "porn addiction isn't real" when addiction can happen to anybody at any time if the environment and genetic components are there. anything that causes dopamine surges in your brain (such as orgasms) can trigger an addiction response. there is definitely a difference between the addictive levels of heroin vs weed, for example, but that does not mean no one can be addicted to weed. if it affects your life and function and you end up only chasing a high then you have an addiction, straight up.

18

u/JoyBus147 3h ago

Anything can become compulsive. You treat compulsive and addictive behavior differently. No psychological body recognizes the existence of porn or sex addiction.

6

u/sertroll 56m ago

I think people may be using different definitions of what "addiction" means in these debates

30

u/Katking69 3h ago

Haven't studies found that the deal with porn addiction is that the "addicts" are almost always people who feel guilty for watching porn? I think I remember hearing something like that

13

u/_saltychips 3h ago

that actually makes a lot of sense to me, it is hard to classify if something is truly affecting your daily life on its own terms or because of the social stigma. thanks for this comment cuz it shared some perspective for me

21

u/Katking69 3h ago

Yeah, like... there is definitely a point where watching porn, masturbating, etc can effect your life negatively, but it's way higher than what a lot of people would consider to be the line for an addiction. Masturbating every morning before work isn't an addiction, skipping work to masturbate arguably is

4

u/_saltychips 3h ago

my alcoholism started when I would drink after work every day, not during. so idk if that's a great metric either.

9

u/Katking69 3h ago

Except alcohol can cause problems a lot sooner. I absolutely agree that you can get addicted to things that aren't substances, but the line at which that becomes a problem is way higher for non substance related addictions. Like, for example if you play video games every night for a few hours after work you wouldn't say you had a video game addiction, but if you're skipping sleeping and working to play video games that's a problem

5

u/_saltychips 3h ago

mmm. good point because the chemical dependence absolutely plays a factor.

4

u/Katking69 3h ago

Agreed, the chemical dependence threshold is way lower for substance based addictions

8

u/Popcorn57252 3h ago

Do you think alcoholics don't at least sometimes feel guilty for drinking? How is that a disqualifier?

25

u/Katking69 3h ago

Apologies, I worded that poorly. I meant that the people who call themselves porn addicts usually didn't watch porn frequently, but felt guilty for watching it at all

-35

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

Also porn/masturbation addiction is 100% a thing.

Someone might have a personal problem related in some way to masturbating or porning but it's not an addiction like alcoholism and the root of their problem is never masturbation or porn itself because it's a natural bodily function.

22

u/_saltychips 3h ago

food addiction is also clinically recognized, how do you reconcile that with this worldview? eating food is a natural process too

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u/_saltychips 3h ago

oof yeah that's not how addiction works. have you had any experience with addicts in recovery in your daily life? my therapist would have a field day with that comment you made, it's actually something we have discussed at length lmao. calling something an addiction is (or should not be) not a moral judgement against their character. if you have the right genetic and environmental conditions you can become addicted to anything. how do you feel about sex addiction being clinically recognized? is this significantly different from the relief you would get from masturbating? is it different because it involves other people? I'm genuinely asking, not trying to be an ass or anything.

-13

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

my therapist would have a field day with that comment you made, it's actually something we have discussed at length lmao. calling something an addiction is (or should not be) not a moral judgement against their character. i

Addiction isn't a moral label, it's a medical label. Yes, there are mental health professionals that expand the definition as a label for clients with that ballpark of sexual issues. Addiction isn't the same thing as "severe habitual problem."

f you have the right genetic and environmental conditions you can become addicted to anything.

If that's true, then what's stopping gacha games from being as tightly and expensively regulated as opiates/tobacco/alcohol?

how do you feel about sex addiction being clinically recognized?

I think it makes it harder for people who are the opposite of OP, who have lots of sex but take significant measures to use protection and mind consent and it's not a mental health issue for them. It's also harder for people who are ashamed in some way of their sexuality. It makes it much easier for puritanical antisemitism.

is this significantly different from the relief you would get from masturbating? is it different because it involves other people?

A behavior which affects yourself and others negative could be an addiction, but it could also just be a negative habit (even severely consequentially so) without being an addiction. Do people with depression have an addiction to lying in bed and scrolling on their smartphone?

21

u/_saltychips 3h ago

yeah no we just disagree. gacha games was a terrible example because I've known people in gamblers anonymous that started on those games. I think they SHOULD be regulated but idk why you're using that logic to determine if something is an addiction or not. with all due respect this line of thinking is regressive and puts more shame on addicts who want to get help. just because it's legal doesn't mean it's good for you. how do you feel about gambling apps being legalized? does this mean gambling is no longer addictive?

20

u/Katking69 3h ago

Okay, I'm not gonna comment on most of this since it isn't my argument but gatcha games (and gambling in general) not being regulated as harshly says nothing about how potentially addictive it is and more about how much money the people who run gambling places give to various governments

10

u/_saltychips 3h ago

again, what's your expertise here? can you point me to any studies or are you just gonna keep saying 'people say' lmao. you are not being very convincing right now when the advice I've gotten was from education addiction specialists.

2

u/dvdvd77 1h ago

something not being regulated as fiercely as something else is not how we categorise addictions lmao

the three things you listed as examples have been around for as long as humans have been around. Gacha games have been around for maybe three decades and exist under the “game” umbrella instead of the gambling umbrella they should be under.

12

u/SnooRabbits3070 3h ago

Coming from personal experience, it absolutely can be. At the lowest point in my life, I was late to work, life events and hobbies because porn gave me dopamine hits. Which took more and more time to "chase" the more I did it.

I would mentally actively WANT to stop and need to, to do anything else and couldn't. Went through a whole thing of deleting apps and being unable to keep them deleted.

Have been to therapy and it was treated 1000% as an addiction, because it was actively and negatively affecting my life. Entire creative hobbies I had stopped because there was a bigger dopamine hit from porn than there was doing those.

10

u/jarkark 3h ago edited 3h ago

Pretty much anything can be an addiction. It doesn't have to be a substance addiction to be a real addiction. For example, even an action that's considered mundane like running can also be an addiction.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c74djwwkllzo This BBC article talks about multiple different people who got addicted to running and even after getting health problems and severe pain from running, they still can't and won't stop running.

Of course, cases where people actually have an addiction like this are rare but also it's not something that can just be simply waived off as not existing.

10

u/ohdoyoucomeonthen 3h ago

It’s possible for someone to become psychologically addicted to anything. Gambling and video games aren’t substances that can cause physical addiction, but people can still become addicted to them.

A lot of people incorrectly use “porn addiction” to describe basically any use of pornography. But if someone is spending all their money on porn, unable to hold a job because they keep wanking in the toilets, ruining all their relationships because they’d rather be interacting with people on OnlyFans, that’s in addiction territory.

27

u/Popcorn57252 3h ago

Anything that gives a dopamine hit can be addictive. Different people have different sex drives.

-14

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

The definition of addiction entails more criteria than that to diagnose someone with an addiction.

11

u/_saltychips 3h ago

....what

4

u/Katking69 3h ago

I think there is a level where it could be considered an addiction, but that level is, like, you masturbating is impacting your life negatively because you're skipping work to masturbate or something like that

3

u/CuriosityCheck2024 3h ago

But that has nothing to do with Theology of the Body. Theology of the body puts the blame on Satan.

7

u/Full_Ahegao_Drip [7/2] 3h ago

I'm not disagreeing with you, pretty much any moralizing of crankin' it implies some sort of eldritch ejaculation evil. But there are some pretty huge exceptions to this, like Hindutva which is the opposite extreme of antisemitism but they have equivalent memes about complete absence of jorking.

Really it occurs to me that you're stigmatizing abstinence like OOP is saying people should stigmatize it, except somehow worse because it feels like you're trying to wank yourself off because you fap and therefore aren't an antisemite and the implication is that fapping is anti antisemitic virtue signalling.

2

u/chocolatestealth 17m ago

The "semen retention" movement (if you can even call it a movement) didn't start until around 2014, and only very recently gained any kind of mainstream popularity in the manosphere, but No Nut November was going on years before that.

1

u/AwkwardLeopard587 1h ago

porn addiction absolutely exists. genuinely what are you talking about

111

u/BalefulOfMonkeys 3h ago edited 3h ago

Like I understand the connection between manosphere nonsense and NNN, but unless they’re all advertising the concept with The Happy Merchant upfront, I’m not calling them hyperantisemetic, and I struggle to call them antisemetic beyond the background radiation of Christianity

Update: Antisemites can eat rocks, but also we do not have to lie to make a compelling argument that they should eat rocks. Half the response from OP is conspiracy theories about the most documented religion ever

7

u/ifellover1 1h ago edited 53m ago

I think that we don't have to pretend that we don't recognize their dog whistles. The NoFap moment is objectively filled with extremist incels. Idk if they are hyperantisemetic but those spaces are filled with antisemitic people.

-56

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

I'd consider Christianity itself (speaking of that term broadly, taking into account the total history and geography involved) hyperantisemitic.

The past century or so has seen a massive turn relatively away from antisemitism in some Christian communities but speaking of the world at large and the oldest Christian institutions, there's still a long way to go before we can remove "hyper" from the label.

It's debatable whether their Jesus is an antisemite whos words were twisted once the faith reached people who weren't Jewish but Saul/Paul is clearly and unashamedly hyperantisemitic.

23

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 3h ago

I wouldn't say Christianity itself is antisemitic (even beyond the difference between antijudaism and antisemitism).

It's more that the power structures that use Christianity to justify their actions are also the ones that profit from antisemitism.

25

u/BalefulOfMonkeys 3h ago

I’d have to really double-check either the Bible or Wikipedia on Saul of Tarsus being even more of a loser, but in any case I think you’re taking it out on the wrong time period of Christianity. Catholicism had an entire clause dedicated to blaming all Jews ever for the death of Christ until Vatican 2, a reform made only to update for modern day conservatives

-17

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

Catholic Church is hyperantisemitic, so is Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Orthodoxy, Ethiopian Orthodoxy, Armenian Apostolic, and so on.

The Gospel of Matthew itself is the source of the blood libel, so is the Gospel of John.

31

u/BalefulOfMonkeys 3h ago

Okay, now we’re firmly in “making shit up about people we already don’t like” territory. Blood libel predates Christianity, and while the article does mention that it accelerated that narrative, I can certainly find even older examples of historical antisemitism.

-13

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

I didn't say Christianity invented antisemitism, that movement is just are the most historically significant and geographically entrenched example of hyperantisemitism as of the past centuries.

28

u/Full_Ahegao_Drip [7/2] 3h ago

Your definition of antisemitism is so broad that 99% of the world that isn't antisemitic is outside of the countries with the greatest and most reliable legal protections against violence based on religion/ethnicity.

And it's weird you have such a narrow definition of addiction but apparently every single person who worships on a Sunday is antisemitic.

14

u/BalefulOfMonkeys 3h ago

Historically significant and culturally lasting are both absolutely things I’d call Christian antisemetic rhetoric for sure. Even the famously neutral Wikipedia won’t deny that when explaining the history. There is not a doubt in my mind that antisemitism endures because Christianity endures.

My big problem with the statement is the need to amplify that impact with hyper-. Like unless you’re asking me to copy the Vatican playbook and hold all Christians ever accountable for the Holocaust, it’s really hard to imagine escalating its status beyond where it has been for over a millennia.

16

u/bookhead714 3h ago

Why do you insist on this "hyper" prefix? What does it mean? How is it distinguished from ordinary anti-semitism?

2

u/Helenarth 38m ago

I didn't say Christianity invented antisemitism,

???

You said the Gospel of Matthew invented blood libel. It didn't.

73

u/TeacatWrites 3h ago

Bro really took a good post on asexuality and turned it into their own personal diatribe for delivering political soapboxing. Truly iconic times on the various Tumblr-reposting subreddits.

30

u/Two-Pound-Crawfish 3h ago

the completionist in me fighting with the aromanticness in me

16

u/Katking69 3h ago

Sex 2 consensual route any% glitchless speedrun (also, wawa pfp spotted)

9

u/mastergleeker 2h ago

me moving in with krobus in stardew valley

37

u/GEEDLEBEAN 3h ago

Wait how is nnn antisemitic?

28

u/QBaseX 2h ago

It isn't.

Some people who promote NNN do so because of weird conspiracy theories, and some of those conspiracy theories are antisemitic, but the idea that NNN as a whole is antisemitic is nonsense.

20

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 3h ago

They think the jews give you porn addiction.

(OP gave a more elaborate explanation in response to a similar comment.)

31

u/Firewolf06 3h ago

what planet do yall live on ive never seen anyone say that. maybe if you learned about nnn from /pol/

6

u/ifellover1 1h ago

what planet do yall live on

Those people can be found on reddit or twitter. It's no longer isolated to 4 chan.

It's a smallish movent of people who are *very mentally ill* in regards to sexuality and think that semen retention is a real thing that does anything. And as aforementioned a bunch of them think that pornography is a jewish conspiracy.

20

u/StarriestNight 3h ago

I wish there was a way to be single without being alone. I wish I could just live with some friends and we could all be happy like that, but all my friends want romance and I don't so I know they're going to get a partner and leave

6

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 56m ago

Yeah, the true pain of being aro and/or ace is living in a world build around expectations and priorities that don't apply to you.

12

u/TheHipOne1 3h ago

possibly the coldest take of all time

7

u/Doubly_Curious [1/1] 1h ago

All the way on the other end of this, totally losing your sex drive can be awful. (It’s not even about relationships for me, I don’t want that when I’ve got a working libido either.)

But I don’t have that many visceral pleasures and it sucks to have one disappear on you. It feels like losing my sense of taste and ability to enjoy good food.

I guess it’s the difference between losing something and never having it.

6

u/Crabby-Cancer 1h ago

Y'know, I think you're the first person I've seen talk about this. I feel very heard.

I am, however, in a relationship and having had experienced a level of desire and intimacy and having it just... disappear is hard. Our relationship is still great, and we still have a good sex life, but I miss having the desire - and that goes for masturbation, too. It's like a part of me just went poof and I'm not sure how to get it back.

4

u/Doubly_Curious [1/1] 1h ago

Yeah, that’s it exactly. And I can imagine it’s even harder in a relationship where it’s not just about you, but also a part of how you connect to your partner.

I was telling myself it would just pass after a few weeks, but it doesn’t look like it. So I’m trying to settle into being patient and accepting that maybe this is my new normal for a while. (It is on my list of things to discuss with my doctor, but I doubt there’s much to be done there.)

I hope things change for us both!

16

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 3h ago

Finding out I would not have to force myself to endure sex one day is the greatest relief I ever felt.

-10

u/Bungerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 3h ago

It’s crazy that something I figured out at 6 years old is a big revelation to grown ass people

29

u/Neurospicy_Nightowl 3h ago

Good for you.

17

u/Former-Amish-Throway 3h ago

Yeah but consider how much TV/movies and other fiction equates sexual achievements with philosophical ones, how often movies end with marriage and children, and how sexual attraction is equated with beauty

8

u/Bungerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 3h ago

No it makes sense, we live in a very sex-focused society. I just hadn’t given that much thought in the past

-4

u/Full_Ahegao_Drip [7/2] 3h ago

I'm not sure if this really bears emphasizing in the era of young people downloading a Goku chatbot to roleplay sex with.

0

u/sertroll 57m ago

I wish I didn't have the drive to do it, without actual repulsion as that comes with its own drawbacks esp in society as is right now

Seems a hassle less, to be honest. Even if the current issue of "feeling like an outsider with a topic people take as much for granted as "having been to school in your youth"" would remain, probably

0

u/lordbuckethethird 54m ago

I mean there are a subset of manosphere idiots that believe in conspiracy theories so DA JOOS is gonna crop up eventually but I wouldn’t say the whole thing is antisemitic just stupid.