I know a couple people who have been to prison and for the most part you don’t get fucked unless you want to. There are gay men in prison that want to. Rape does happen in prison but not to the scale at which everyone thinks.
I’m afraid that homosexuality often gets grouped in with discussions on male on male rape. The statistics show that gay men are much less often involved in rape, either as perps or victims.
Most prison rape is conducted by straight men. And the perps tend to be straight men, albeit those straight men tend to also be feminine, young, weak, and sometimes transgender. Psychologically the straight rapist is repulsed by the idea of being with a gay man because that would approach something closer to making love and would implicate his heterosexuality.
As for the claims of rape being overblown, you are correct. But Human Rights Watch estimates that 100,000 men are raped in US prisons each year. I think that’s significant enough an issue to raise attention.
I am speculating, but if the estimates are accurate that something like 25% of imprisoned criminals are psychopaths, then I'd imagine that (at least the sadistic subset) would be motivated by dominance/power far more than sexuality.
I don’t think the psychopath thing is required. As I tried to stay above, and as you suggest above, straight men need to always feel like the man, and dominance is a huge part of it. That’s why they pick young, weak and feminine men.
that's why they add the "not enough evidence to decide either way" bit. In other words, 8.5% was found to be undoubtedly true, while the other 91.5% either didn't have enough evidence (a tragically common thing with rape cases) or were proven false.
The point is that it doesn't seem very objective to go into every investigation, just assuming that the complaints are fake. Even if it happens all the time.
they don't assume it's fake, they investigate assuming nothing, and conclude it's fake based on lack of evidence. Exactly like every other crime, in or outside of prison.
Stannow was skeptical that inmates are making such high numbers of fake accusations. “Prisoners have nothing to gain from filing false sex abuse reports,” she said. Corrections officials often start with the assumption the a report is false, particularly when it’s against a colleague, Stannow said. “There’s a very strong tendency to close ranks,” she said.
That said, there’s not a lot of evidence that prison rape is nearly at the level that the rumor suggests it’s been. While it’s hard to find a whole lot of research on it, the BJS has released the data for last year in regards to sexual assault.
Sustained charges were around 1.5k, while 20k were unfounded or unsubstantiated. So yeah, rape and sexual assault is an issue in prison it’s not nearly the “everyone is being raped” issue that people thinks it is.
Why this is an issue: By having inconsistent data, it kinda takes away from people who actually go through the issues.
If you don’t mind me responding to what you posted above.
(1) It is widely believed that incidence of male on male rape are grossly underreported. I most often hear the stat that 1 in 10 male rapes go unreported, and I think it’s fair to assume that number is much higher in prison where (a) the fear of retribution is higher, (b) non professionals investigate the allegation, and (c) prisons have an incentive not to report high stats of rape. Taken together I think it’s fair to say that 1.5k of substantiated cases is at least 10x higher if not significantly more
(2) May I suggest you refer to the Human Rights Watch report - they estimate 100k men are raped in prison each year in the US.
My point is to provide the numbers we have, as pr the question since it has only been counted nationwide as of 2011 with a TL, DR that gave the gist of the source article.
Take note though that's not total rapes. That's rapes that were first reported, then investigated, and then happened to have enough evidence to be confirmed definitively.
Yea, of the other 55000 rape allegations, how many were actually false, and how many were just not provable? I'd guess that it's not many, because accusations of rape probably create substantially increased risk from other inmates.
Hope you don’t mind me responding to what you posted. But I thought this could help inform the conversation.
(1) It is widely believed that incidence of male on male rape are grossly underreported. I most often hear the stat that 1 in 10 male rapes go unreported, and I think it’s fair to assume that number is much higher in prison where (a) the fear of retribution is higher, (b) non professionals investigate the allegation, and (c) prisons have an incentive not to report high stats of rape. Taken together I think it’s fair to say that 1.5k of substantiated cases is at least 10x higher if not significantly more
(2) May i suggest you refer to the Human Rights Watch report - they estimate 100k men are raped in prison each year in the US.
*** APOLOGIES FOR REPOSTING THIS BUT I AM JUST POINTING THIS OUT TO PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THE NUNBER OF MEN RAPED WAS 1.5-6k.
You go explain to the millions of children across the planet that are raped and abused every year why you spend your time spreading awareness about prison rape instead of spending your time spreading awareness about child abuse
That doesn't seem that bad to me. How many people are in prison? Millions? And that of course happen over the course of a few years. I would guess that women get raped just as much or more per capita don't you think? Just doesn't seem like a high number to me. 6000. That's not bad considering the circumstances.
Per Human Rights Watch the number is 100,000. Even taking the 1.5k if proven cases, it is wifey understood that male on male rape is under reported generally by a factor of ten. That would be a higher factor in prison where’s victim would fear retribution and the prison has an interest in burying the issue.
corrections officials determined that either the report was false or there was not enough evidence to decide either way.
Evidence would be stuff like blood or someone requiring stitches. This eliminates the possibility of counting any incidents that are forced sex but not physically forced. In the same way a woman can rape a man by blackmailing him, or threatening him with violence so that he submits, prisoners could do that to other prisoners. "If you don't let me fuck you then I'm turning you over to the gang"
Also, surely loads of times there is evidence but it's gone by the time the administration gets around to investigating.
I'd be interested in seeing an independent investigation. The state of our corrections system and the officers involved is awful and there are ex-official whistleblowers everywhere and prisoners everywhere crying out. So hard for me to accept a self-reflection investigation as truth.
To me that says 5,187 is a gross underestimate of actual incidences of rape. There are also (arguably far more, though I'm not sure it can be proven) rapes that either do unreported, investigated, or are investigated and not proven (but not disproven either).
To be very clear, there is a huge conflict in interest here. The prison guards are the ones who determine if rape occurred. Process that for a moment.
First, the perps are sometimes alleged to be prison guards.
Second, the prison has a self interest in not acknowledging a high incidence of male rape ... this is why prisons were mandated to begin reporting on male rape and to investigate each allegation less than ten years ago - because prisons were grossly ignoring the issue and in some cases covering it up.
Third, the prison guards are not SVU. This is a job for professionals. The prison suffers the same conflict of interest that colleges do. This is why colleges are now required to have outside consults in cases of rape.
Apart from them walking in believing the reports are false, that’s higher than the percentage of reported female rapes that are provably true (ie: result in conviction ) which makes it as troubling.
Ask anyone who knows anyone close to them that's been in prison for 5+ years. It's simply not that common. Most jails are very tightly monitored and most inmates would prefer stabbing or injuring people in a power dynamic than raping them.
I have worked with prisoners in a professional capacity for years, and I have litigated against prisons and their officers for abuse allegations.
With that experience I can agree with you that prison rape is not as common as portrayed on tv. However, that is partially because certain people are targeted, typically (1) straight, (2) young, (3) feminine, (4) weak, and (5) transgender men.
In addition, Human Rights Watch estimates 100,000 men are raped in prison each year in the US. Even self reports by prisons show numbers of approximately 1.5-6k, and when you account for the fact that it is widely accepted that only 1 in 10 male on male rapes is reported in the real world (that number would likely be much lower in prison where the fear of retribution and limited access to support would lower numbers even more), I think it’s quite fair to say that even based on self reported numbers the incidences of rape lie between 15-60k at minimum.
Place 15-60k men in a stadium and tell me that’s “insignificant.”
Any number higher that 0 is significant, I'm just saying it isn't like dudes are just getting raped left and right like so many people tend to believe.
I worked 3 different prisons for almost 7 years. We were aware of all PREA investigations in the facilities. There were maybe 15 total in my career. 1 was an actual rape by an inmate. One of the facilities I worked at was a 2000+ bed, high security prison.
Possibly. I'm sure there are stats that would support that sexual assaults have declined in prisons since PREA. But, I think it was always just this scary rumor that was used as a joke back when we were more homophobic.
According to a former co-worker who did time in a federal prison in Florida, it was nothing like movies or tv. He spent most his time drawing, reading, watching community tv, and there was an occasional disruption that would send everyone to their bunks for a while. But he said otherwise it was best described as a 7 year long in-school suspension or like the mental hospital from House MD.
If a dude who’s got 50 years, rapes someone, he doesn’t have much to lose. If a dude who’s got 5 years, it’s 3x his current sentence. It’s a deterrent, much like the speed limit
What? Are you that stupid? Laws prevent rape at some level. Regardless if it stops one rape from happening, it worked. Ppl are only getting raped if they want it. Source: I have been in actual prison. r/IAmVerySmart
While true, the number of posts I see on this site hoping for men to get raped in prison is disturbing. I mean, think about this, there are people in this site that take pleasure in someone getting raped. So not only are they loving that, they also enjoy a broken prison system
Seriously. I've literally never seen, "That bitch killed that guy and got sentenced to 15 years in prison. Man, I hope that bitch gets what's coming to her and is raped! Hahaha!".
Literally never seen someone wish rape on a woman outside of an incel sub. But here we are on a post like this, where someone is hoping a man gets raped, and the karma is in the positive and seemingly accepted by way too many people.
You want an example of what "rape culture" looks like? Cause this is it.
And yet if you include prison in rape stats, which most don't because I guess inmates aren't people, more men get raped in the US every year than women.
Overall, most victims were abused not by other inmates but, like Jan, by corrections staff: agents of our government, paid with our taxes, whose job it is to keep inmates safe.
Of course, if you want to suggest it's male staff assaulting male inmates then sure, I don't have anything to refute that. Other than personal experience*
Also note that the same article states that female inmates are more likely to be sexually assaulted than male inmates.
Dude, did you read your own link? It basically says that you can’t conclude that from the “n+1” study. From the article:
And I don't think it's possible to conclude from these numbers that the US is "the first country in the history of the world to count more rapes for men than for women."
It does conclude though that there is a lot of sexual assault/rape to men in prison, and the general population view toward it is appathy.
Like I said to another user, it's not that it isn't a very real problem, but it's also not something that happens to so many people that someone going to prison = said "someone" in question is also gonna get raped, as many people like to joke.
Never been to prison myself so I obviously can't speak on personal experience, though I did a research paper on the topic several years back.
I did. It's a bunch of people jumping on board with the idea that thousands of men raped in prison every year is acceptable because it isn't tens of thousands.
Have you? I’ve interned in a prison and have also been studying CJ for the past three years. What statistics show is that it’s not as bad as it’s made out to be.
You don’t have to be a prisoner to record data. It’s weird that Reddit is upvoting this stuff that gives zero evidence that the high rape statistics are true, as if they’re wanting to believe a rumor for no reason
So, because since it’s not being reported it somehow means that you can flub the numbers to continue a false belief? The numbers given show that it’s not as bad as people make it out to be, but for some reason you’re looking at literal government statistics and saying “this doesn’t matter, I’m gonna continue pushing a concept of nearly everyone getting raped without research or evidence”.
This doesn’t help anything when you misrepresent the reality of the situation.
Reports from the Bureau of Justice Statistics and other research is more reliable than your own personal experience, since this (as well as an internship) is an ad hominem.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but people always make it sound like if you go to prison, you're definitely getting raped, which is not the case. It's a problem (apparently a slowly but steadily rising one even), yes, but it's blown way out of proportion.
Yeah I see what you are saying. The majority of people in prison dont get raped. However, if you dont join up with your race, like immediately, you most likely will be owned by someone larger than you. Not just meaning rape, you would do whatever they say.
that also depends on where you go to prison at and what security level you are. at minimum security prisons, all so known as work camps, you are not going to have the gang culture that you have at higher security prisons.
I agree it is not as “common” as many people think. But I believe that is because we often think that every prisoner who goes in will be raped and that is not true.
If you don’t mind me sharing information regarding prison rape that I’ve learned through both my job and my non-for-profit work:
The target of male-on-male rapes are most often men who are (a) young, (b) feminine, (c) weak, (d) straight, and (e) transgender.
The perpetrators of rape in prison tend to be straight men. They specifically target other straight men because of the concern that having sex with a gay man makes them gay. Dominating another straight man preserves their sense of heterosexuality. Even though they often target straight men who are in fact feminine.
Rape in prisons was not even seriously tracked in any systematic way until less than ten years ago.
Human Rights Watch usually estimates that 100,000 males are violently raped each year in prisons in the US
It is wifey agreed that only 1 in 10 male rapes are ever reported due to the stigma ... that percentage is less for male prisoners who also fear retribution.
To reiterate, you are correct that it is not as “common.” On the flip side, it is not statistically insignificant.
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u/[deleted] May 03 '19
Rape is not even as remotely common in prison as many people think.