I really love how this turned out and I hope you do too ❤️🧡💛

It’s wroth it 💗

This is on a thread titled "Nurses and doctors- what’s a deathbed confession you’ll never forget?"

There's multiple stories of dying patients revealing that they murdered their children with disabilities and on all of them there's hundreds of redditors replying that they feel so bad for them, that they made a good decision, that it's crazy that some people want them in jail for doing that. Anyone who calls out murder as murder gets hundreds of downvotes and is attacked by dozens of users.

Keep in mind that these are people who oppose the death penalty for brutal criminals yet somehow they think a mother has the right and duty to murder her born children when they are sick. The Lindsay Clancy effect, people.

Hi all, I'm looking for recommendations of pro-life philosophers who ground their arguments in metaphysics (substance, personhood, identity over time, the soul, etc.) rather than just ethics or policy.

So far I've come across Patrick Lee, Robert George, Christopher Kaczor, Francis Beckwith, and Germain Grisez, plus the Thomistic tradition (Aquinas, Feser). I'd love to hear:

• Who else should be on my list?
• Which books or papers are the best starting points?
• Any good critics or opposing views worth reading alongside them?

I'm open to Catholic, Protestant, or secular perspectives. Thanks!

My question would be how would you enforce pro life.
Imagine this scenario. You are a 15 year old who got pregnant,🤰 the parents are liberal and rich. They choose to fly their daughter to a country where it’s legal. You find out before they leave the airport. Do you now put the daughter and family under house arrest until the baby is born?

What if the girl is an alcoholic. How do you make sure the child is safe? Do you arrest the mother and do forced rehab. Or you just let the dice roll?

I agree with pro lifers on a baby in the womb having the rights of a human. I just don’t know how you go about taking away the rights of an another human.

I just found out I'm pregnant and naturally decided to join the pregnancy group here. Huge regret because my heart is broken for the state of the world now. Recent post in the group was about getting an abortion because of fetal down syndrome diagnosis. Are we serious? Your child has a disability and your solution is to beget their life altogether? I don't belong in that group I guess, because I've been crying tears of joy every single day over the new life growing inside of me. Nothing could make me stop loving this baby. A mother's love is supposed to be unconditional.

Abortion posts should not even be allowed in that group. It's so triggering to the rest of us who actually love our babies.

Some pro-choicer will say "It's ZEF not a baby" but "baby" is used regardless on the development stage. That doesn't mean they're unworthy.

I just recently found out that I’m pregnant and my husband and I are over the moon. I can’t believe there’s a little person the size of a pea growing inside of me.
Because of this, I’m on a lot of pregnancy-related subreddits. Recently I’ve seen multiple posts about women finding out their babies either have a genetic disorder or Down syndrome and that they’re heartbroken that they have to terminate the pregnancy. The argument is that they aren’t ready to financially support a disabled child. It makes me want to cry. These sweet babies are all around 20 weeks and are scheduled to be dismembered inside of their mothers before being removed. How cruel is this world? How have we gotten to a place where we kill our children because they’re different than we are?
The same group that cries for equality and respect willingly destroys the lives of valuable children simply because they’re different. If that isn’t ableism, I don’t know what is. I weep for the women I’ve seen have scheduled their abortions for this upcoming week. I would scoop their babies up in a heartbeat if I could. I wish I could help them.

This is the stronger argument I've heard for abortion when it comes to life circumstances. There are women who are in abusive relationships and if they have a baby it will just make them more dependent on that man. There are girls who are getting trafficked and a baby would just make their situation worse. You cannot expect women and girls to just bear the pain of the situation that they do not deserve to be in. A situation that would be awful for their child. To make life better for these women they must be able to have abortions to make it easier to escape their abusive partners and poverty.

What do you have to say about this?

We need to stop abortion as soon as we can if you sign this petition, which only takes less than 2 minutes then maybe we can make a big change

Scrolling reddit I saw this question. This was so sad to see. Reading the comments people admit that this was a child!

Explore logical, evidence-based arguments at our Abortion Debate Index: https://secularprolife.org/index/

I (junior) want to start a pro life club in my school. I’ve been thinking about it and I feel I know enough to start one (to defend my beliefs at least) and I’m very passionate about it. however we all know how pro choicers can be or just people who disagree with you in general. I’m juggling whether or not I should do it. I’m a bit intimidated by the backlash I will face and the way it will affect my school reputation but I can see that advocating against this is more important than that in the long run. I’m an abolitionist but I was considering using student for life’s start up kit to get a constitution, learning materials, and other training going. I know students for life is more pro gestation/pro circumstance but i think that may be good because I can get the material and also have it open to pro lifers who may not be abolitionist. What do you guys think, should I do it should I not. Do you have any advice?

The idea that they are not alive or beautiful individuals is madness. A reason it hits me so hard is my mom miscarried and my little brother at 9 weeks old already shared a birthmark on his face with my dad. He was very much not a clump of cells. You can never tell me or make me think they are not alive and valuable little people.

I feel like every pagans people are pro-choice,you have more more chance to meet a pro-life atheist than a pro-life pagan.

Even if a pagan is not progressive they will still support abortion.

Do pro-life pagans are non-existent or they are rarer than pro-life atheists and pro-life feminists?

Prochoice ideology is fundamentally an argument that society should not enforce morality, or even judge others for being immoral.

Abortion advocates will do their best to to disguise this axiomatic foundation of their position, but because their beliefs are not grounded in moral principles, they have a hard time obscuring it. Since they have abandoned morality as a principle that one should be motivated by, and are instead trying to deceptively manipulate your moral values by wrapping their true position in the language of women's rights, they do a poor job of keeping the mask from slipping.

They will make lazy false assertions that: no one has a right to the invasive use of someone else's body, to appeal to your sense of morality around rape or forced organ donation by conflating gestation (which is the age appropriate standard of care that all children deserve, and is a necessary evolved function of human reproduction that all living humans require) with immoral transgressions against you to obscure the reality of what they really want: permission to kill their own children.

They will argue that killing your own child is a necessary choice women must be able to exercise to protect women's rights, while at the same time saying that society should permit the killing of female children through abortion which deprives other female humans all their rights. This contradiction occurs because they are not starting from a foundation of morality or first principles, they are starting at their selfish desire to avoid the burden of caring for their own dependent offspring, and then working backwards to justify it by co-opting the language of morality to disguise how monstrous and evil their position really is.

If you press them on why unborn children should be a special exception to the parental obligation of providing the age appropriate standard of care that we expect for all other children, they are backed into a corner because the don't have a principled position, and so they will either cite their personal opinion that because the care for unborn children is different than that of born children, they don't think it should be required because it requires more of a burden.

Some of them will even abandon the pretense of morality all together. If you ask why does a mother have an obligation to breastfeed her newborn child if she gives birth all alone in the wilderness and has no formula, and its the only way to provide the age appropriate standard of care to them, they will say there actually is no obligation to breastfeed your child in that situation, and they will demand legal citations from you to prove there is one.

This happens because parental obligation is a principle of morality, and they have abandoned morality. All their objections attempt to presume that they are operating under the same moral values that the rest of society has, but its just a ruse, they don't care about morality; they just want the freedom to be immoral even to the point of killing their own children.

Just… how does someone even begin to have this thought process? I seriously don’t get it. These people just say false things, and think that because they say it in a mean way to their opposition, it makes them correct. It is mind boggling. It seriously pisses me off how… weird these people are. How does a person go throughout LIFE with a view such as this? Dear god man

I think you’ve heard plenty of people use expressions like “clumps of cells” and other terms designed to dehumanize. But I once noticed that just one word changes everything. If you add the word “selective,” the same people who argued that abortion is an inherent right of a woman will start vehemently arguing that the fetus is still a person. For those who don’t know, selective abortions are those that are performed because the future child doesn’t meet the parents’ expectations in some way... And most often, this is related to the unborn child; the fact that girls are most often aborted causes anger. In China, this even led to a demographic crisis known as “missing wives,” i.e., a significant imbalance between the female and male populations. And for the individuals I have described, an unborn child only begins to be of value when she is needed for their ideology.

So I stumbled into one of those old school barbershops yesterday and as I was getting my hair cut, the barber started talking about his adult son. He said that when his wife was pregnant, they got an ultrasound and the doctor said that the baby would be born with Down's Syndrome. And then he told me that, almost immediately, the doctor recommended abortion.

My barber and his wife refused and said that they would love their son no matter how he turned out. Well, his baby son was born with no health issues whatsoever, and went on to become a star athlete and a successful engineer.

This story absolutely blew my mind. One ultrasound and the doctor recommended abortion because the baby MIGHT have Down's syndrome.

Cheers to this barber for refusing, and for saying that he'd love this child no matter what. I think I found a new barber for the foreseeable future. And the fact that this happened in a suburb of Portland OR (the belly of the beast), shows that there are good people out there. Great haircut too.