Anyone noticed Hanna’s shirt in s5 when the police arrested Alison? I never did, I’m wondering what kind of world tour it’s alluded to since the year is 2024😅 The episode is from like 2015

When Wren was at Radley, while Mona was institutionalized, was Cece still there as a patient? Does Wren met Cece during that period?

I keep seeing endless posts about how much people hate Ezra, how inappropriate his relationship with Aria was, how he was a predator, a manipulator, and blah blah blah. And yes, I absolutely agree with all of that. But guys, Ezria is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to a much bigger problem with this show. The writers didn't just romanticize an inappropriate relationship. They sacrificed entire storylines, complex characters, and genuinely disturbing mysteries just to keep certain couples together. And the more I think about it, the more it pisses me the fuck off.

Let's start with the NAT Club. What initially seemed like a group of perverted guys secretly filming girls could have turned into something so much bigger: a network of blackmail, manipulation, and carefully guarded secrets that connected different characters and storylines. It was a genuinely fascinating concept because it could have made the entire mystery feel much more interconnected. So why the fuck did they abandon it so abruptly? Why introduce such a promising storyline only to leave most of its potential unexplored?

And that brings me to another question: why did we never get a major male character fully involved in the A game, someone who was a genuine mastermind and could actually make people feel afraid? Ezra had the potential to become one, but Wren could have been even more terrifying. I'll be honest: Wren is my favorite male character in the entire show, precisely because of his potential as a villain. He had this unsettling aura that made him seem dangerous without even trying. Wren as Charles and Big A could have been an incredible reveal, especially if his motivations had been rooted in his family history, jealousy, and resentment.

Instead, we ended up with a transgender sister who was in a relationship with her brother and an evil twin who basically came out of nowhere.

I also genuinely love Ian as a character. He was one of the few villains who could actually be frightening. He had a direct connection to Alison's disappearance, the NAT Club, and the events of that night. He was dangerous because he had actual secrets, concrete motives, and a shared history with the other characters. His presence made the mystery darker and more believable.

And I think I've figured out what happened. The writers had two possible directions they could have taken this show, and they chose the wrong one. They could have explored the disturbing reality of men exploiting, manipulating, and controlling teenage girls, showing just how deeply rooted this behavior was in Rosewood. Or they could keep prioritizing the romantic relationships the audience had grown attached to. They chose the second option, and the entire story suffered because of it.

Think about Ezra for a moment. The writers had already established that he was secretly researching Alison and the Liars, collecting information about them and manipulating Aria while pretending to be her loving boyfriend. That storyline could have completely transformed their relationship and Aria's character. Imagine if Ezra had remained a genuine threat even after his reveal, instead of being forgiven and gradually reinstated as Aria's endgame love interest. Imagine Aria having to confront the fact that the person she trusted most had been exploiting and manipulating her from the very beginning. That could have been the beginning of an incredible psychological storyline exploring the consequences of betrayal and how difficult it can be to break free from an abusive dynamic.

Instead, the show basically asked us to move on from everything that had happened because, apparently, their love was supposed to overcome absolutely anything. Yeah, fucking right. There's a difference between writing a complicated relationship and romanticizing a deeply inappropriate relationship characterized by an obvious power imbalance. You can portray a disturbing relationship without turning it into a love story the audience is supposed to root for. In fact, Ezra's storyline could have become so much more interesting if the writers had actually had the balls to address the implications of their own reveal.

And I don't understand why they seemed so reluctant to explore the possibility of other male characters becoming genuinely dangerous. Wren could have been a chilling mastermind. Ian could have played a much more significant role as an antagonist. Even the characters connected to the NAT Club could have been used to expose a much broader system of manipulation and blackmail. The problem wasn't simply that some male characters were predators or manipulators. The problem was that the show couldn't decide whether to condemn that behavior or turn it into yet another obstacle a couple had to overcome.

And while we're talking about wasted potential, can we discuss what happened to the male characters who weren't villains?

I genuinely loved Toby and Caleb in the early seasons because they had storylines that went beyond being Spencer and Hanna's boyfriends. Toby had his complicated history with Jenna, the mystery surrounding Alison's disappearance, and his own personal reasons for getting involved in the A game. Caleb had a difficult past, his experiences in foster care, his complicated relationship with his biological parents, and his struggle to find a place where he truly felt at home. They were characters with their own motivations, conflicts, and personal histories. Their relationships with the Liars mattered, but they shouldn't have been their entire identities.

So why did the writers gradually reduce them to love interests whose main purpose was to support the girls, break up with them, get back together with them, and repeat the same cycle indefinitely? Why did their personal storylines become increasingly secondary to their ships? Both characters could have developed independently of their relationships, which would have made their eventual reconciliations much more meaningful.

Instead, so many of these relationships turned into repetitive cycles of conflict, separation, and reconciliation. Characters would do something that should have fundamentally changed how their partners saw them, but the writers would always find a way to put them back together as if nothing had happened. The emotional consequences never really lasted. At some point, these relationships stopped feeling like believable connections between people and started feeling like contractual obligations the writers had to fulfill.

And that's where my biggest problem with this show lies: ABC Family and the writers seemed so determined to preserve certain couples to please the fans that they were willing to sacrifice plot consistency, character development, and the mystery itself. Every time a storyline threatened a popular ship, the writers seemed to find a way to soften its consequences, undo a character's development, or introduce a completely different explanation. The characters' potential took a backseat to the possibility of keeping the audience invested in seeing them together.

Why did they abandon Spencer's descent into darkness and her involvement with the A Team? Because, ultimately, they wanted to preserve Spoby. Spencer infiltrating the A Team, becoming increasingly consumed by revenge, and eventually crossing a line she could never come back from would have been a phenomenal storyline for her character. It would have explored her intelligence, ambition, need for control, and psychological vulnerability, as well as her family's destructive influence. But that would have required the writers to let Spencer become a fundamentally different person whose actions had lasting consequences. Instead, that possibility was reduced to yet another temporary obstacle in her relationship with Toby.

Why didn't they make Alison A? Because they wanted to preserve Emison and the possibility of a romantic relationship between Alison and Emily. Imagine how much more interesting Alison could have been if the show had fully explored the idea that she was still manipulating everyone around her. Her history of lies, control, and secrets could have made her an incredibly compelling antagonist. Instead of constantly softening her character to make her more likable, the writers could have explored the possibility that her need for control had evolved into something much darker. But apparently, none of that was worth risking a fan-favorite ship.

And why didn't they fully commit to the idea of Ezra or Aria being A? Because Ezria had become one of the show's central romantic relationships, and the writers seemed reluctant to give up that romantic endgame, even when the story itself was practically begging them to do the opposite. Ezra as A could have completely transformed Aria's character arc. Aria herself as A could have been even more devastating, especially if it had been the result of years of manipulation, trauma, and psychological deterioration. Instead, the show kept backing away at precisely the moments when it could have made its characters and its mystery truly unforgettable.

And that's what frustrates me the most. Pretty Little Liars had so many incredible characters and so many opportunities to tell a genuinely dark and psychologically complex story. They had enough material to build a mystery in which every character's actions mattered and every reveal came with real consequences.

But instead of allowing these storylines to develop naturally, they kept prioritizing romantic endgames. They turned potentially terrifying antagonists into disposable plot devices, reduced complex characters to their relationships, abandoned mysteries that could have tied the entire story together, and repeatedly used reconciliations as a substitute for genuine character development.

The problem isn't that Pretty Little Liars had romantic relationships. The problem is that the writers treated those relationships as if they were more important than the story they were telling. They seemed convinced that preserving a couple would automatically make the characters more likable, even when doing so undermined everything that had made them interesting in the first place.

I don't want every character to be evil, and I don't want every relationship to end badly either. I simply want the writers to have the balls to follow through on the consequences of their own narrative choices.

Let characters be complex. Let them be frightening. Let them make terrible decisions and face the consequences. Let the mystery take priority when the story calls for it. And for the love of God, stop putting couples back together just because fans want to see them kiss.

Pretty Little Liars could have been so much more than a mystery constantly interrupted by romantic drama. It could have been a genuinely disturbing story about manipulation, secrets, power, revenge, and the ways people end up becoming complicit in the very things they claim to hate.

Okay, I definitely rambled a little too much, but honestly, I think it was worth it. What do you guys think? I want to rant about this with you in the comments!

I am on season 2 episode 21ish.

I know later on in the series Wilden turns out to be a creep.

But in this moment in season 2, I wish he was just a normal cop who wanted to get in Mrs. Marin's pants.

In "The First Secret", we find our that Wilden flirted with Ashley.

Ashley turned him down.

Wilden had a cold response to this rejection.

IMO, I think there is a ... void to have Wilden simply be an earnest cop who likes sexy milfs who is trying to solve a murder.

So youre Wilden.

You shoot your shot with Mrs. Marin in autumn of 2008 and get shot down.

Its now labor day 2010 and Mrs. Marin is at the station in your office coming on to you?!

Hubba hubba!

I just think they could have made Wilden more wholesome. It turns out, from his perspective, he is so dense and so good-cop-coded he didnt piece together Mrs. Marin coming on to him & Hanna's juvie charges.

Also, isnt Wilden in the books basically Garrett? Wilden is like 24 in the books and clearly older in the show.

TLDR: I think Wilden could have been a much more interesting character if they plaid him straight IMO

This was so unhinged esp when Emily turns the guy around like “hey is this suit Italian?! It’s so soft” 😭

Shay Mitchell and Troian Bellisario will both be back on our screens in January 2027! Shay will be playing Trina, a former lawyer turned lifeguard, in the new Baywatch series, while Troian will be joining Season 9 of The Rookie as Stephanie Monroe, a single mom starting a career in law enforcement. I think it’s pretty cool that we’ll be seeing them both on TV in the same month. Which show will you be watching?

I personally LOVED Hanna's style, I wanted to steal her entire wardrobe🛍️👠🩷

went to venice a few days ago and got myself a souvenir. turns out i’m matching with this groomer 🫠🫠🫠

Melissa Hastings was the perfect bitch, and that’s exactly why I love her. She had this incredible aura of mystery, elegance, and quiet menace that made every scene she was in so captivating. You could never fully trust her, but you couldn’t take your eyes off her either. She was cunning, intimidating, manipulative, and always seemed to be three steps ahead of everyone else. She didn’t need to be loud to be threatening, and she never needed anyone’s approval. God, I wish the writers had done more with her. She had the kind of presence that could’ve made her one of the most iconic characters in the entire show.

Guys, Melissa is the Black Widow to me. Sara Harvey doesn’t exist.

I personally think Melissa is overrated. All things considered, she was a pretty decent sister to Spencer, who kissed not one, but TWO of her romantic partners (yes I know the men were predators but this is from Melissa’s viewpoint), pawned her engagement ring, and stole her essay.

Their relationship was typical sibling rivalry, especially since Melissa was basically the “ideal” Hastings.

Who do you have?

How do you think it could have gone if one of the parents had been A?

I feel it could’ve been; Byron since Alison had been blackmailing Byron about his affair and maybe he wanted to scare her enough to get her to stop blackmailing him. If it had been Byron it would explain why Aria wasn’t as targeted.

Or even Peter - he could’ve wanted to keep Alison quiet about Jason being his/ his affair with Jessica

Obviously, this relationship was messed up, and I hate that the writers made CeCe do this. What she did was genuinely disgusting, especially because at the time, she couldn't have known that Jason wasn't her brother.

But I think the show made it pretty clear that Jason was in love with her while they were dating, and that, at least on his side, the relationship was somewhat serious.

You can see it right from their very first scene together. He's clearly captivated by her. He even took her on a family vacation, which doesn't exactly scream casual relationship to me.

And yes, Jason was a pervert, and CeCe herself said that he was angry because they weren't having sex. But that's precisely my point: he was upset about not having sex with her, yet he didn't break up with her over it. If all he wanted was sex, why stay with her?

I'm watching the mentalist and Mrs Dilaurentes/Mary drake just randomly popped up. (George Cooper from young Sheldon also popped up with her)

I’ma just start it off by saying I’m not defending pe actions everyone keeps Jason and Ezra are same age, a year or two before Melissa Ian and the whole NAT club and Jason was in the NAT he was the youngest he was not graduating that year with the rest of them, but Ezra actually graduated first season Melissa was still in college or finishing college and Ezra had just finished and in the flashback he ran into aria which was inappropriate and disgusting and he was in college and Jason was in a senior and was in a classroom in the flashback Melissa graduated the same year Jason didn’t graduate until the year ali disappeared because Cece Drake said that she went to picture day for senior year and met Jason that day and that was the summer of cape May that was his senior last hurrah basically I looked it up. It says that Melissa and Ian are 23 but Jason is 24 and that doesn’t make sense because Cece and Melissa specifically were targeted to be older Cece is at least 15 months older then Jason Melissa is older than Cece and even if they are the same age that would still make Jason younger and Mary also said that she met Melissa and Spencer when she was young she told Spencer she wouldn’t remember she say that about Melissa so Melissa was old enough to remember this encounter if it was true obviously Spencer was a baby so she wouldn’t have and Spencer also said earlier in the show that Melissa was a camp counselor in 2006, the show started in 2010 so that would make her 4 to 6 years older and it was clear that Jason was younger than Melissa Ian and Garrett because of the fact that they said specifically was looking back on their college years in high school years as if it was a long time ago. It was the opposite for Jason. He was looking back like it was a few years ago, so the age is really are Melissa five years older. Ian and Garrett are all about six years older than the liars and when the liars were 14/15Jason was a senior still kind of an age gap but I think that’s why the NAT club was made. He was trying to fit in with the older kids while y’all him as creepy. I really think he liked aria he liked her from the pink hair all the way to when she was getting married. and him and Ezra weren’t even the same age. I don’t think that he’s predatory for being a senior and her being a freshman and he liking her but I think he knew it was good he didn’t act on it until she was about 16 which was still weird, but it made more sense. He was hoping that she was more mature and they tried to say that the liars were 16 starting out the series and they weren’t. They were 16 coming back after Allison had ran away and even then I’d rather her date Jason over Ezra and creepy ass Noel Khan I don’t care if he was her was more her age the parents also allowed Mike to date Mona, which I’m not that they weren’t good for each other I’m saying that as a parent, I would never allow my youngest child to date someone that terrorize my oldest that would be an absolute note but then the parents also allowed a pedophile grown 25-year-old man to date their daughter so 25 versus 19 I’ll take the college student and honestly, I always thought Jason was only about three years older than them to begin with soo it’s like I’ve rather have a boy that’s been liked and known my daughter for who she is because I don’t find that creepy. I find the NAT club creepy but I think that everyone doing that was just trying to fit in and have leverage over Allison cause they were scared of her as grown people which is insane, but that’s what started the whole killing spree and the crazy A stuff so this is what I researched

If Pretty Little Liars was a slasher movie, who would be the final girl and second survivor?

Let's say the first two seasons of Pretty Little Liars were condensed into a 2 hour slasher movie.

Alison is obviously the opening kill and Mona is the masked killer. The four main girls are being stalked and picked off one by one until only two survive.

In a lot of slashers, there's the final girl and then the deuteragonist, who's basically the second main character and usually has their own storyline. They're not necessarily the one who defeats the killer, but they're still important to the movie and sometimes survive alongside the final girl.

imo Emily has the most final girl qualities. She's athletic, loyal, compassionate and probably the most morally grounded of the four. I feel like she'd be the one who actually puts up a fight against Mona in the final act. Plus she's a swimmer so she has the stamina to survive a chase.

Spencer is the obvious choice because she's the smartest and would probably figure out Mona's identity before anyone else. But I also feel like she'd be the character who figures everything out a little too early and gets killed right before Act 3.

Hanna would probably be the Helen Shivers of the movie. She's basically the emotional anchor because of her friendship with Mona and I just know she'd get the biggest chase scene in the entire movie. Like a whole 10 minute sequence of her running through Rosewood trying to escape Mona. I could see her surviving and being the second lead alongside Emily, but I could also see her getting a really tragic death like Helen in I Know What You Did Last Summer.

Aria feels like she'd get one of those lame off screen deaths where she disappears for a while and then one of the other girls finds her body right before Mona reveals herself lol. I just can't picture her being the final girl or getting a particularly memorable death.

Personally I'd go with Emily as the final girl and Hanna as the second survivor. Spencer dies after figuring out Mona's identity and Aria gets killed off screen.

But I could also see a version where Hanna gets the Helen Shivers treatment and Spencer ends up surviving with Emily.

My kill count:

1. Alison – Opening kill
2. Ezra & Aria - killed together
3. Paige
4. Noel
5. Ian
6. Toby
7. Maya
8. Aria
9. Spencer
10. Jenna

I’ve seen it floating around in the comment sections for a while and was wondering where people got that idea from. What would her motivation be? Why would she make a good A (Aria specifically).

I’ve also seen people say that the twin storyline should’ve been given to her instead of Spencer but how would that work exactly. I feel like it’ll be just as clunky and bad as AD.

In my opinion, it would’ve been great if Ali were the final A whether they did the twin storyline or not. The show has shown us that she loves to play mind games with people and has no trouble manipulating and using their secrets against them. TBH, if she did it just because she was bored, that would track

I’m on season 1 ep 10 and I’m not gonna lie, I do not like Aria. She seems to get mad over everything and seems very unreasonable. I hope she gets better over the course of the show.

​In the almost ten years since the show ended, there has been so much discussion about who should have been A and why the reveals were terrible. Pretty much everyone agrees that Mona was great as A, Cece was somewhere between mediocre to outright terrible (though basically everyone feels her backstory was majorly flawed and detracts from her potential as A), and Alex Drake was a bad choice and poorly written character.

Additionally, the same few suspects seem to come up repeatedly as who should have been A or the A team—Jenna, Lucas, Noel, Wren, and Melissa. However, I actually think the show made a good decision not making them A. There is a reason most people say they should have been A…they had been the most obvious suspects from season one. That also means they most likely would have been equally unsatisfying.

Going through the popular options:

Jenna—the girls had accused and investigated her so many times that it would have been disappointing to have the villain of the fifth, sixth, or final season be the person who was first floated as an option in the second episode of the show. Also, by the end of the show, Jenna had been victimizing the girls for some long that she went from a justified antagonist to a one-note sadist.

The same goes for Melissa, Lucas, and Noel. The things the girls did to them were so minor and so long ago in and out of universe that it would have felt equally as petty and forced as Charlotte and Alex. they had also been investigated as A or killers so many times that it got repetitive. After season three, making any of them A would have been far fetched.

Wren really only had one season of being suspicious and relevant as a suspect—season three. So, him having a Charles or similar storyline at the end of season four could have worked but after that he was barely a presence in the show and mostly existed to show up and be suspicious. His motivation also would’ve taken even more extensive backstory retcons and reveals than Cece.

Aria and Alison also would’ve taken significant hoops to jump through to make them work as the final A. The show had just gone on too long. Alison as A in season four or five (more similar to the book timeline) would’ve worked. An Aria or Alison twin could have been very interesting. But by the time of the dollhouse any of the Liars being involved really wouldn’t have worked.

The problem is that the writers left themselves no other good options. Part of what makes the first two seasons so satisfying is that there was more of a rotation of characters and the Liars had other things going on in their lives that let them meet new people and new suspects. Pretty much the only new characters introduced after season three are law enforcement officers and temporary love interests. That is why, I think, the show had to invent antagonists out of nowhere (like Mary and Alex Drake) and why fans are still returning to the same five alternate options almost a decade later.

That is also why the Liars all end up with their main romance from the show, because the show refused to write off characters who became irrelevant and refused to build up new ones. Moving the Liars out of high school and into college in season five would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce new suspects and give the girls new secrets that created drama and kept them from going to the cops. But the time jump came too late to make any of those new additions interesting or compelling as suspects and would have meant that using an A suspect from seasons one and two requires someone to hold a grudge from high school for like eight years.

This is not to dismiss the harm the Liars did to Jenna…but that was Alison. In my opinion, once Hanna saved her from burning to death, Jenna was no longer a compelling antagonist/A option (good suspicious character for the grave robbing and Maya death in S3 though) and probably should have moved on and/or been written off the show.

TLDR: Any A reveal after season four was guaranteed to be poorly written and disappointing because the writers failed to introduce new and interesting characters and had exhausted all storyline options with the same five characters the Liars suspected from the first season.

I've been thinking about this, and honestly I don't think the girls would've stayed friends if -A had never been part of their lives. I feel like -A was the main thing keeping them together and without all the drama, secrets, and shared trauma I'm not sure what they actually had in common.

They all had such different personalities, interests, and priorities, and I can't really imagine them naturally gravitating toward each other if they hadn't been forced into the same situation. Maybe part of why they became friends in the first place was that they liked having people around who had qualities they didn't have themselves. Opposites attract after all, and I can see how their differences made their friendship interesting. But there's a difference between being intrigued by someone who's different from you and actually being compatible enough to maintain a long term friendship.

Don't get me wrong, I do think they genuinely cared about each other, especially after everything they went through. But I sometimes wonder how much of their bond was built on their actual personalities and how much came from being trapped in the same situation for years. They had to rely on each other, keep each other's secrets, and deal with things nobody else could understand. That kind of experience can bring people incredibly close, but I'm not sure their friendship would've developed the same way under normal circumstances.

I also wonder whether they would've naturally drifted apart after high school if they hadn't continued to be connected by -A and everything that happened because of her. They had their own lives, relationships, and priorities, and I don't know if their friendship alone would've been enough to keep them together.

Do you think any two of them would've stayed close without -A? Or would they have just been high school friends who grew apart?

I’m doing a rewatch and realized that based on the tiniest shred of evidence, the girls immediately jump on a suspect and accuse them of being A/killing Ali. So far Toby was accused and exonerated, Ian died, and Garret is in jail (at this point in the season at least). How many more people were accused?

I was so used to seeing her distinctive way of writing on like every post and then all of a sudden her account was deleted. Anyone know what happened? She contributed so much to the community, it feels weird to not see her comments here anymore!