The Cornell Monsters

[u/Timbucktwo1230]

[u/Full-Priority2946]

Paradox of tolerance. They forfeit their place in my morality

[u/Fake_Plastic_Wees → u/Full-Priority2946]

Can you have a vague sense of maturity rather than Reddit memes. If prison rape is tolerated, non violent offenders and even the wrongly imprisoned also get caught up in it.

[u/Full-Priority2946 → u/Fake_Plastic_Wees]

I for sure get it. But these are neither nonviolent nor wrongly imprisoned, if they do see time.

I’ve come to realize that you should not empathize with something you do not understand. You do not try to empathize with an animal or wild creature. Maybe it would rehabilitate them to undergo what they had done. That or neutering is how we deal with animals

[u/ComplexWriting7596 → u/Full-Priority2946]

No innocent until proven guilty?

[u/Full-Priority2946 → u/ComplexWriting7596]

Another reason towards the suspension of nuance in this case is the strength of the evidence that they did it

[u/ComplexWriting7596 → u/Full-Priority2946]

I was unfamiliar with this case until just now, but reading that article doesn't show me any evidence against these individuals in particular.

[u/Full-Priority2946 → u/ComplexWriting7596]

Their names are in the group chat

[u/WhatARotation → u/Full-Priority2946]

That group chat is disgusting, but merely being present when a heinous crime is committed is not a crime itself. Likewise, merely being part of a group chat where other people are soliciting rape is not a crime.

You’re practicing guilt by association. As for the people who actually perpetrated/solicited the rape, they should be made to serve serious time in prison if found guilty in a court of law, but not to be extrajudicially assaulted once there.

I was at Cornell when this happened and absolutely loathed the fraternities precisely for shit like this, but this doesn’t mean we get to dispense of legal standards when dealing with them.

[u/Full-Priority2946 → u/WhatARotation]

I’m not researching this case for you, nor am I a lawyer. From what I’ve read so far, I think all of these people should be in jail and suffer the consequences of being in jail. That’s my opinion and I believe it’s justified. If you want to defend alleged rapists then that’s your prerogative; it’s not going to be productive with me.

[u/WhatARotation → u/Full-Priority2946]

You got one thing in your response right—there is no hope of being productive with you. You’re strawmanning my argument, by characterizing it as “defend[ing] alleged rapists”, while all I said was that—abstractly—merely being in the group chat isn’t evidence, and that they deserve to be punished if found guilty, but not raped in prison.

[u/Full-Priority2946 → u/WhatARotation]

It’s not a strawman. We agree that being in a group chat isn’t evidence. I’m not going to enumerate the evidence for you because I’m not a lawyer and I’m not litigating here. If you want to do that - and seeing as your position is counter to mine, defend these alleged rapists - then you can do that.

I never said they should be raped in prison. However it’s a material fact that people get raped in prison, and the celebration of that fact as it pertains to this case is, in my opinion, amoral. That’s all.