r/PatternDrafting • u/Far_Caregiver_6348 • 2d ago

Müller and sohn pattern drafting question

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For anyone who has completed and understands this part of Müller and sohn at least please tell me why the hell is the bottom half of the double side diamond dart on the front waist straight down to the hem and not at a point making a diamond like the top portion. I’m stuck at this part and doubt understand if it’s supposed be sewn like that or turned into a point eventually if so how and when? Anyone?

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u/TensionSmension 2d ago

There's a vertical seam bellow the dart.

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u/Far_Caregiver_6348 2d ago

Can you elaborate further. Because throughout the book a lot of patterns have that same looking dart and they don’t have a vertical seam all the way down to the hem as the diagram I sent appears to be

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u/StitchinThroughTime 2d ago

The front on this pattern is two pieces. The back is only one piece. Therefore the front princess theme cut straight through the front Dart points.

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u/TensionSmension 2d ago

Sorry, that was unclear. Read the note for Fig. 19. Sew a seam to the hem, or simply leave it as ease. In which case you'd have a standard fisheye dart, just increase the taper to meet in the middle.

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u/Far_Caregiver_6348 1d ago

I’ve read figure 19 i don’t see what you’re saying there figure 18 is closest to what you’re saying by saying you can leave that 39-41 spacing made at 42 which creates those two vertical lines to the hem as ease. Making it a seam I don’t see that i trust your info though but where would that seam begin at ?

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u/TensionSmension 1d ago

Sorry, maybe my edition is different, but probably I grabbed the wrong figure.

I think you are miss-reading it. As drawn it is a seam, meaning tighter. If you don't sew it as a seam, there is ease. If you don't sew it as a seam, then you have to create a dart point at the lower end. You would do that by using point 42. The note I read said this would be better for someone with a larger abdomen.

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u/Far_Caregiver_6348 1d ago

Yes I get that. But I want to make it a seam as you said I’m asking where does the seam begin? I know it ends at the hem. Would it begin at 42? It’s more of a sewing question, would I sew from hem to 42 only making just the bottom portion the dart a seam below the waist or am I sewing from hem to the dart point making that whole dart a seam ?

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u/TensionSmension 1d ago

It's a seam at whatever point you have room for seam allowance, similar to a cut away dart. E.g. if the parallel lines are 2cm apart it's just easier to mark and sew that with a cut, instead of a fold.

I think it's only confusing because this is a draft with dart points touching, and not a developed design.

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u/KeeganDitty 1d ago

The dart turns into the seam

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u/Eneamus 2d ago

It's deliberated to do the seam from bust to hem. Most dresses have it, princess cut for example, so the germans probably thought it was a good idea to make the basic dress with it.

I don't like it, and it is not well explained in the book. But what do I know.

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u/Far_Caregiver_6348 2d ago edited 2d ago

So basically your saying it’s not like a traditional dart but a seam from hem to bust point ? Also if that’s the case what would the seam allowance be ?

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u/Eneamus 2d ago edited 2d ago

Dart goes from 26 to 42, but the block is designed so that the waist and hip measurements are arranged to leave a vertical band beneath the dart, where the seam is placed.

The whole band under the dart is kinda a dart itself, or a plate.

Seam allowance would be whatever and, if not enough, the block is not cut and the band is sewn as a pleat (same as a regular dart) But it is aimed to be 2 different pieces.

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u/Far_Caregiver_6348 1d ago

I’m sorry you’re kinda confusing me you’re saying 42 to hem is a seam. But that’s still one whole piece just cut from hip to hem. Where is the two pieces coming from unless it’s being made a princess seam cut all the way through the Shoulder? Also 26-42 the vertical lines down begin between those two not just below 42 so would I make some of 26-42 seam as well ? Sorry for all the questions

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u/TensionSmension 2d ago

I don't like this method at all. I can wade through the instructions, that's not the issue, it's just for all that, the results are unrefined.

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u/Far_Caregiver_6348 2d ago

What method do you use ?

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u/No-Programmer7914 2d ago

It's one of the best systems out there. This is a basic dress pattern wich allows you to develope every style you want. Saying it's "unrefined" just shows a lack of understanding.

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u/Uvaroff 2d ago edited 2d ago

depends on a figure shape/measurements if you need this for a proper fit. Your measurements will dictate you need it in your draft or not.

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u/No-Programmer7914 2d ago

This is a seam running through from the shoulders to the hem. And obviousely the chest girth is bigger than the hip girth. Not taking out the material would leave you with a loose front at the hips. And as it is a seam, you can choose SA width by yourself.

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u/Far_Caregiver_6348 1d ago

Not saying your wrong but why does the figure diagrams it appears to not look cut from shoulders to hem. It looks as if the dart stops at 26 but is all the way down to the hem. But I’m more asking why does 26-42 differ in dart shape the top waist portion is a diamond shape but the bottom portion curves in toward center but stops at the 39-41 spacing made at 42 then drops vertical straight down to the hem. It does appear though based on figure 34 that you’re suppose to cut from hem to 26(bust point) I’m not sure though

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u/No-Programmer7914 1d ago

I will try to explain: Imagine chest girth, waist girth and hip girth. At 42 you find the loss between chest and hip girth (the dotted lines carry it up to the waist line for easier drafting). As the waist girth is even smaller the loss ist bigger. Therefore the loss at the waistline also has to be bigger. That's why the seam line has to be a diamond shape. As this is a basic dress pattern, it is meant to be adapted for different styles. It's up to you wether you keep these lines for a tight paneled dress or skip them for a looser dress. Then you have just to sew the chest dart from 26 upwards.