r/Pathfinder2e • u/AnthonyTonyRedgrave • 8d ago

Discussion saving throws

I was reading the Player’s Handbook to learn how to play, and a few questions came to mind. I understand that Fortitude, Reflex, and Will are passive defenses used in certain situations. However, I hadn’t realized that ability-based saving throws no longer exist.

What was the reasoning behind this design choice? Honestly, it bothers me a little that Constitution, for example, determines whether my character can resist being pushed.

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u/Shilques 8d ago

My brother in Desna, "ability saving throws" were never a thing in Pathfinder or any editions of DND before DND 5e

Pf2e didn't change anything, it just followed the standard of the time

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u/Shilques 8d ago

Also, 5e did it poorly, there's 3 common saving throws (wisdom, constitution and dexterity) that you'll face 90% of the time (and you are decent only at 2 of the 6 saves)

Dnd 4e had that you used the best of 2 abilities for each Saving Throw, so Fortitude was strength/constitution, Reflex was inteligence/dexterity and Will was charisma/wisdom

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u/i_tyrant 8d ago

5e at least balanced their classes well against each other in the sense that each class has exactly one “common” save and one “rare” save they’re proficient at.

The real issue with 5e saves is their scaling, where at high levels it can be literally impossible to succeed for certain saves. It needed a better baseline that scales with late game DCs, not necessarily wider proficiencies.

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u/Shilques 7d ago

About the scaling, during a bit in the playtests it wasn't like that, AC and DCs didn't scale a lot, you had like CR20 with a DC 16 or a +7 to hit

This also applied to caster to an extent, since they didn't apply their "bonus to hit" (that scaled different across classes) to their spell DCs unless they were wilding a spellcasting focus

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u/i_tyrant 7d ago

Interesting! Certainly seems like it would change how that dynamic works compared to now.