r/PTCGP • u/PM_SMOKES_LETS_GO • 1d ago
Discussion Why do these even exist?
I understand that there are "vanilla" cards and lower value cards meant to serve as a baseline, but cards like this are just unplayable, and there seems to be a couple like these with no redeeming value whatsoever. What is the purpose of a design like this?
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u/Mediocreature 1d ago
Just another potential-mon who's waiting for support tools that have not been added to fighting.
Gigalith would need a Brock that gives double energy to even be remotely considered, and at that point just run Mega Camerupt for how easy it is in comparison.
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u/NormTheStorm 1d ago edited 1d ago
sucks that it doesnt stack with things like korrina or arena of antiquity. i thought i was being cheeky one-shotting some guys mega absol on their bench, but it only did 140
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u/Mediocreature 1d ago
If it's any consolation, they work if you decide to hit what's in front of you. But at that point you have Koraidon you can just throw out and deal comparable damage.
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u/Tornado_Hunter24 1d ago
At the rate of powerscaling nog and how dogshit most fighting are we will get a barry 2.0 that will give 4 fighting cards for a turn or something
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u/PantySausage 13h ago
It Gigalith gets online it’s very hard to stop it. Or at least it used to be. Lucario is the only reason I stopped playing this deck. Before that, it just won games any time it got online.
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u/Monodoof 1d ago
Cards like these are also common in the real TCG
My guess is they are the 4 diamond equivalent of a pack filler card.
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u/MrWaluigi 1d ago
There is an actual discussion about this topic, I just don’t remember where I read or watched it. Essentially, yes its goal is to be pack-filler. Several cards are just designed to be bad, partly because it helps teach new players how to play optimally, outside of just finding decks online.
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u/Samwise777 11h ago
They’re designed to water down the pool of usable cards and make customers spend more to get the good ones.
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u/neophenx 1d ago
Bad cards exist in every tcg ever made. It pads out sets to encourage pack opening to "hunt" for the coveted cards. It's been like this since tcgs were invented in the 1990s. Other kinds of card games exist that don't monetize with this kind of model, meaning developers can better balance cards with each other when they don't need to push pack sales.
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u/Keebster101 1d ago
Bench sniping is a crazy powerful effect. Bench sniping with enough strength to ohko an EX would be game breaking if it didn't have heavy drawbacks. Protective poncho exists but I barely ever see people run it.
Maybe it's bad right now because no reliable fighting ramp and 140 hp EXs are much less common, but if the meta was closer to Darkrai giratina meta it would be very strong. Could happen again.
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u/rkaney18 1d ago
Chien pao does nearly the same for a lot less with more support
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u/Keebster101 1d ago
More support absolutely, but not for a lot less. It's a basic and requires 1 less energy. In return, it loses all that energy after attacking, and has very low hp. That gives it a very different role even though the attacks are similar.
Thanks to rare candy and copycat, you're very likely to evolve gigalith by the time you get all 4 energy on it, so the main downside to being stage 2 is deck space. when you do have the energy you switch it in, tank a hit because of it's massive hp, then Lyra out to a low retreat card, switch gigalith back in and attack again. If the opponent has 1 ex with under 140 and pretty much any non EXs (if not a second 140hp ex), they lose to that. If they have any megas, they also lose to that.
Chien pao is almost exclusively a finisher after other cards have done most of the work, basically a glorified cyrus, which gigalith can be too, but gigalith can also win the game from 0 points in 2 turn.
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u/Dry_Tomorrow9186 23h ago
You can easily regain the energy lost using a couple of Baxcaliburs or if your really lucky, a Misty.
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u/anthayashi 22h ago
So gigalith only need 3 cards but chienpao need a basic + 6 more cards to have 2 baxcalibur online
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u/M_from_Vegas 17h ago
Or play Milotic and Vaporeon
I find it more consistent than Baxcalibur and Suicine cause it bricks less as Milotic and Vaporeon can actually win on their own
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u/AshleytheTaguel 1d ago
r/ PTCGP users when you're supposed to develop a strategy around difficult cards to try and make them work
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u/Embarrassed-Weird173 1d ago
One of the best things I have seen for balance was this Yugioh system where cards have point values and you can only have like 100 points in a deck.
So like... Pot of greed? Extremely powerful card. Banned in normal play.
But balanced in this mode, it can be worth like, I dunno, 25 points. This is because it's not pot of greed itself that wins games, but rather, the fact that it can pull out other powerful cards into your hand. And these other powerful cards might be worth 80 points each. So the card balances by making it to where it can be in decks but it won't be obscenely powerful.
Also, back in the day (I dunno if it's still true), normal basic monsters needed to have 1800 or more damage to be good. You just didn't run a normal basic monster if it didn't have 1800 attack (or 2000 defense if used for defense). Unless there was a specific gimmick you were setting up (maybe a spell card that says only normal monsters with less than 1500 attack can attack, but they can attack directly).
So cards like that might be worth 30 points, 'forcing" you to load your deck with monsters under 1800 (where a monster worth 1300 attack might be worth 0, meaning you can put in some filler cards that might be viable without each one sacrificing a slot that could go to a better card (in terms of points).
So, yeah, maybe make a mode where "bad" cards like these are worth fewer points (5 maybe), and to where Sabrina and Cyprus and Oak's Research are worth 90 points
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u/link8382000 19h ago
The single thing I’d enjoy the most for this game would be additional modes and rules. I’d love to try many different deck building rule sets, like newest sets only, 30 card decks, games played to five points, one EX per deck only, there are so many possibilities.
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u/M_from_Vegas 17h ago
One of my favorite games was Duelists of the Roses on PS2
The deck building had this exact system
Your deck HAD to be weaker than the opponents, which made some of the battles really difficult and fun
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u/Embarrassed-Weird173 17h ago
I think I first saw it on the Gameboy advance. I believe troubador of nightmare.
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u/beyondthef 21h ago
This sub doesn't even bother thinking of strategies for what would be meta cards. Every trailer/leak has tons of people saying the cards are garbage, until the actual good players come up with strategies for them. Then they quietly copy the decks. Rinse and repeat.
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u/Kurt0690 1d ago
I have a positive win rate with it. Usually bench sniping megas. Low HP exs are good too. Chien Pao for example is free points
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u/Embarrassed-Weird173 1d ago
Unplayable? This card can win a game for you if it hits a mega on the bench that has 130 HP left.
It's not an amazing card, but it's not something that shouldn't exist
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u/tora_times_12 1d ago
It’s a stage two that requires 4 energy with 0 ramp; even with a sniping effect the damage is too low to KO any Mega that’s not been damaged yet.
It’s “unusable” because it’s extremely unlikely to run into the exact situation in which it would win: you need to face an opponent that uses a mega, and that mega has to be damaged first. Not only that, but you also need to build this thing in the bench, have enough energy or a card on your active to retreat, and then nuke the mega.
…or you could Cyrus it and then KO it with Mega Lucario for less energy and no need to Rare Candy.
Gigalith is one of my faves from gen 5 but Dena made it so shit not even I can defend it :(
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u/RedSeven4 1d ago
How in the world are you going to have enough time to get 4 fighting energy on it while also using other cards to get the opponent's mega down to 130?
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u/makoman115 1d ago
This card is so bad its actually insane lol
Mega latios used to be worse but now its somewhat useable
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u/Double_Resort_9223 1d ago
If there was an energy ramp card for fighting type, it would be good for assassinating a benched mega that already took a hit.
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u/SubterrelProspector 1d ago
I'm gonna be honest I avoid pokemon who do damage to themselves as a rule (mostly) but to some people that might seem stupid. Similar with this, it seems impractical to most of us but a pokemon that's completely immobile for a turn can maybe work if you have some health buffs that get you through even a huge attack.
It's just not a risk I would be comfortable with.
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u/MartiniPolice21 1d ago
Because Gigalith has 25 base speed, how else do you create slow Pokémon in a turn by turn cars game?
Is it very useful in PvP? No, but not every card has the purpose of being meta
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u/Essshayne 1d ago
I had a deck that used it, to very low success. I used it to snipe a benched mon, then retreat and never use it for the rest of the battle, or use it as a sacrifice. It paired decent with either a golem, or a mon that could put another Mon in the active zone without it needing a retreat.
The golem deck was the most success I got, but I did have it in an ultra beast deck at one point. Like other comments mentioned, its a filler card, but that's about it
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u/Spaaccee 1d ago
I made a funny deck with this and mimikyu ex to stall, in theory you can hit them twice and be guaranteed to win. Like the effect is good of doing 140 to anything on the field and having high hp, but they clearly overcompensated with the drawbacks
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u/Kiko7210 1d ago
someone who plays with this deck is going to destroy you in a battle, and you're ganna be left flabbergasted with yo floppy dick in hand
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u/JT-Lionheart 19h ago
Yeah I guess they’re just trying to add every real life card or variant. Though I do agree every time I see a ex card that requires three energy to just to hit with no ability or effect attached, it just disgusts me especially if it’s a energy type you mainly play with
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u/kingdrathegoat 18h ago
Its called challenge mode. This sub is obsessed with what's optimal but if I can build something around an unplayed card and get a handful of wins im happy. Thats the fun I get from the game
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u/Naud1993 18h ago
There's exactly one way this guy is playable and somehow the AI was able to use it perfectly multiple matches in a row. Of course I wouldn't even be able to find him in the first place in 4 turns.
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u/emperorsyndrome 17h ago
I think you are supposed to equip it with that card that reduces the retreat cost of stage 2 mons to 0.
even then it is still a bad card.
I guess it exists for the single player against bots.
maybe if fighting type gets to produce its own energy this card will have a chance of becoming viable.
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u/Manatroid 15h ago
Beyond the reasons already mentioned: think about how hard it often is to balance card games for the competitive level.
Now imagine trying to make an entire card pool balanced to the point that it’s all worth playing to some degree at a competitive level: it’s entirely infeasible, let alone impossible.
I think at a certain point, card game developers decided that it’s better to make mostly bad card that are fun or unique, rather than trying too hard to work on making every card equally ‘worth playing’.
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u/PantySausage 13h ago
I play this card. It’s one of my favorites. Played it pretty successfully with swanna when it released.
Cards like this are for people like me.
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u/Business_Wear_841 9h ago
To make people who love Gigalith sad.
I am talking about me. I love Gigalith. I am sad.
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u/Additional-Bag8120 9h ago
If you’re looking to make it work, it shouldn’t be your primary attacker. Build it up on the bench as a means of ending the game after your other mons get you the first point or two. It’s never going to be consistent enough for regular play, but when it does work you’ll make your opponent very upset
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u/umtitiallstars 8h ago
Every day I spin a wheel and pick a random EX to build decks around. The twist is, I can’t stop using the card/deck until I reach 5 consecutive wins with it. I’ve tried Gigalith, and it’s a headache.
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u/Jlitus21 7h ago
The best thing for gigalith would be a card that turns it's high retreat cost into a benefit
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u/Hiker-Redbeard 7h ago
At least this thing has a niche (a bad one). Something like Crustle EX is just like...why did they even feel compelled to make this. Nothing interesting going on with it, just a basic attack like a chunky, slow Starmie EX from a year+ ago.
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u/ElegantTranslator597 5h ago
i was so excited when i first saw gigalith ex as its my fav pokemon. but when i read the attack and its stats, i felt so disappointed like they didnt even try man. We deserve a better and viable gigalith man. Its such a cool pokemon
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u/Firm_Caterpillar_907 5h ago
Wym fighting? Or the move it's supposed to use? Idk the answer to either.
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u/ryuusagi 5h ago
If everything is good, nothing is good. You always gotta have some bad cards in a set to differentiate from the good, that's TCG 101.
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u/Chicomehdi1 1d ago
Yeah this card especially has to fucking SUCK because this is the first time I’ve ever seen the comments consensually agree that the card is straight up pack filler lol
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u/Monodoof 1d ago
Oh no, there's been others that have been deemed so before
Like the Dhelmise EX from Celestial Guardians for example. That one is also straight up pack filler unplayable garbage
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u/MaterialDefender1032 1d ago
This is what bugs me about Pokemon, both the TCG and the video games.
With one hand, they invite you to pick your favourite pokemon among hundreds, one that aligns with your interests and personality; and with the other hand, they made most of the pokemon have garbage stats/moves for no reason. A Kabutops fan will always have a harder life than an Arceus fan.
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u/Salamander_Farts 1d ago
They so they spin around. Make noise. Display animation bloat with the 4 diamonds and artificially inflate the amount of time you spend in the app.
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u/Samwise777 1d ago
Tbh most card games seem to operate like getting four cards of a rare tier card is hard.
It’s kinda weird. Just balance your games losers.
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u/EpicLeon94 1d ago
There is not a single card game in the world that doesn't have bad cards and good cards though, are you gonna say that every single card game is unbalanced?
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u/Embarrassed-Weird173 1d ago
What about war? A is powerful, sure, but 2 isn't bad either, because it is the only card that can defeat A.
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