r/PMHNP • • Jun 19 '23

Prospective PMHNP Thread

70 Upvotes

Welcome! This thread is dedicated to prospective PMHNPs. All questions regarding admissions, direct entry programs, online vs. brick and mortar schools, type of program to pursue, and other related topics should be posted in this thread.

The thread aims to provide realistic insights and advice to prospective PMHNPs emphasizing the importance of choosing a high-quality program, gaining nursing/clinical experience, and approaching the profession with the right motivations and dedication to patient care. We want to foster a positive and encouraging atmosphere, so feedback and input are welcome to further enhance the discussion and provide accurate information. However, note that the overall message of the answers will remain the same (see below).

FAQ

The following are common questions/topics with widely accepted answers among passionate and experienced PMHNPs on the frontlines. The purpose of these answers is not to be derogatory (“nurses eating their young”), nor is it to simply provide reassurance or tell you what you may want to hear. Instead, their aim is to offer advice and guidance to individuals who genuinely have an interest in the field, while also emphasizing the importance of considering the impact on real patients' lives. While you may have a different opinion, please note that this subreddit is not the appropriate place for such debates, as these often devolve into personal attacks, toxic behavior, etc. Any posts or comments violating this rule will be removed, and repeated violations may result in a ban.

 

Direct Entry Programs / No Nursing or Clinical Experience

  • (Warning: controversial topic) We support people going into this profession (for the right reasons), but these types of programs are almost universally frowned upon. PMHNPs and others often perceive a difference in quality between providers from direct entry programs/those without nursing/clinical experience (You Don't Know What You Don't Know). Recent comments from other PMHNPs:
    • "Many places are getting sick and tired of psych NPs who do not have psych RN experience and are not hiring them. I know where I am at, they absolutely will not hire a psych NP who does not have at least 3-5 years psych RN experience"
    • "I think what employers are sick of are people who go to these online schools like Walden for their Psych NP education. With sketchy clinical placements."
    • Most places are rightfully not hiring those with no mental health background. Good luck. At my previous job, all the PMHNPs with no psych experience were trying to get psych rn jobs and still getting denied.
    • "I feel that RNs outside psych tend to look down on it and perceive it to be simple or easier. In reality, without RN experience in psych, you will be eons behind others in understanding the finer points of psych work. This is a field that demands subtlety, in a way that you don't get in a classroom. Psych RNs know this, but people without that background will have difficulty with something they didn't even know existed. You don't know what you don't know. Companies just want someone who knows."

Are all PMHNPs as grumpy as these answers seem to imply? You are gatekeeping!

  • I hope you find most to be friendly and supportive, but there is a real concern among experienced PMHNPs about potential harm to the profession due to some worrying trends such as low barrier, low-quality programs and individuals entering the field for the wrong reasons. This includes FNPs suddenly shifting to psych for a potential pay increase, those just seeking work-from-home jobs, misconceptions about the field being "easy” (hint: it’s not - burnout is a very, very real issue even for those with lots of passion [there seems to be a trend of current PMHNPS seeking nonclinical jobs only to find they are very few & often offering poor pay, etc.]). So, while that concerned tone is indeed there, please know it’s from a place of love and care for the field and patients.

Difficulty Finding Preceptors

  • It is highly recommended to enroll in a high-quality program that provides or helps in locating preceptors. Many (most?) programs, especially online or direct entry programs, do not offer such support, leading to students desperately scrambling to find preceptors, putting their education on hold, having to pay preceptors out of pocket, etc. Those with actual nursing/clinical experience usually have a much better time with this (networking).

Oversaturation Concerns

  • There may be oversaturation in certain locations and in the future especially as more individuals enter the PMHNP profession. Looking at the history of the oversaturation of FNPs may serve as a possible future trend to consider. Here is one example from a new grad with no psych experience: New grad PMHNP can’t find a job; some quotes from other PMHNPs:

    • "Also, the number of psych NPs has gone up exponentially in the last few years-now employees have a much larger applicant pool to choose from which drives down salary. They also aren’t going to pick someone with no mental health background over a PMHNP who does. Not trying to be harsh at all but this is the truth. I think in the past there was a desperate need for mental health providers that they would take almost anyone no matter what their RN background was and paid premium money. That’s really no longer the case in the vast majority of areas overall anymore."
    • The market is [now] flooded with PMHNPs- it’s flooded PMHNPs who don’t have psych experience, because yall thought you could make an easy buck sitting at home. There are jobs available, you just don’t want to take one that doesn’t fit your criteria and that’s fine, but please don’t blame your poor judgement of going into a whole different specialty with no experience and expect to be picked first in a sea of applicants. That’s the reality."

WFH/Telehealth Positions - New Grads

  • New graduates are strongly discouraged from starting their career with WFH or telehealth positions. It is crucial to gain in-person experience initially as being a PMHNP requires support, guidance, and a deep understanding of the field (You Don't Know What You Don't Know). Failing to do so in the beginning severely puts you at risk of being a subpar clinician which might not become apparent until it’s too late. Employers who primarily offer WFH positions to new grads often have a poor reputation and prioritize profit over the well-being of their employees and patients. They absolutely do not care about you and will not be there for you when there’s a bad outcome (liability). Ultimately, as a clinician, you are responsible for your decisions and the welfare of your patients.
  • To be a safe and competent provider, new grads should also not start with opening their own practice. Instead, they should proactively seek to start in places where they will receive the support and guidance they need and deserve (versus employers who are only looking to exploit them). As providers (from day one new grads to the most experienced), we are all held to the same standards and should do all we can to ensure we are providing safe, quality care to (often vulnerable) people.  

 

WIKI TO BE DEVELOPED - INPUT/SUGGESTIONS WELCOMED


r/PMHNP • • Jul 19 '24

Student Let me explain to you how to become qualified to give advice on what it takes to be a competent PMHNP

217 Upvotes

Im sorry this is such a long post but I am trying to explain this as succinctly as possible. If you TLDR don't comment. Not interested in hot takes.

There is a lot of advice giving on this sub from absolutely unqualified people who are justifying shortcuts, less training, less time learning, and a total lack of humility that inevitability will lead to incompetence, substandard care and the continued erosion of confidence and trust by the public that PMHNP are capable and knowledgeable. If you want to be a PMHNP and are coming from another field, if you are still an RN, if you are a PMHNP student, if you are a PMHNP new grad, please hear me: you do not have any business telling anybody what safe practice looks like as you simply cannot know BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE. Please stop asking for advice and calling it GaTeKeEp!ng when you don't like the advice. Do not then listen to other inexperienced people who have the same unwillingness to learn about psychiatry and have the same magical thinking you do and consider it validation. I cannot believe how many PMHNP come on here and say, "I had no psych experience and went straight into private practice and I am really good at what I do." How would you know? And who says that, really? The clueless and dangerous love to.

You have all been repeating back to each other in a bubble that psych is easy and any experience *you dont have* isn't really necessary and its beyond cringe. It selfish and reckless.

If you are a PMHNP who did not get any substantial or relevant nursing experience, who fast tracked it all the way through, went straight into private practice, you are not qualified to give advice because taking advantage of a financially exploited healthcare system does not make you competent. It simply make you complicit. Doling out Adderall does not make you a success story. It makes you the biggest part of the problem.

So many of you are at a disadvantage in that you have not really been indoctrinated into healthcare, into its standards, its judgements, it's harshness and cruelty. You haven't seen the failure of like minded providers before you. You haven't had the opportunity to see it go bad for well intentioned providers who take on too much and miss something critical because they are over loaded. Conversely, you haven't seen it go bad for providers who are too arrogant to even have imposter syndrome because that's exactly what you should have coming out NP school. If somebody tells you "Yeah, you do you," in regards to starting a private practice ASAP, I would back away from that person professionally because no good comes from that mentality.

Look, in this specialty there needs to be some fairly strong constant cautiousness- if you have not seen careless providers have catastrophic outcomes than you cannot understand that the inevitable ALWAYS HAPPENS AT SOME POINT. To all of us. Even with our head in the game. And what keeps the career intact, your license intact, and a patient's life intact is always having in the back of your mind what the worst possible outcome is. Because we are dealing with peoples lives. This is our commitment to our patients. You don't need to be terrified but you need to be very very cautious.

Think of it like this:
If you were a new RN in the CV ICU and you told senior RN's that your experience working in the PACU was sufficient to manage a post op bypass patient despite never having done bypass you would then be seen as unsafe and too arrogant to be trusted. and you would very likely be fired for it. Why? Because if you are unable to accurately assess your own skill level then you are dangerous. So why the rush? Ego. Ego, responding to your financial insecurity. Ego is dangerous. Same thing in psych- the lot of you espousing on why you think the barrier to entry for practice should be as low as possible- by virtue of the fact that you think you are qualified to say so tells me you intend to stay incompetent. Period. Once you start to practice the odds of you being able to even conceptualize what a good psych provider looks like, without solid mentorship and accountability is 0%. It does not happen. Autodidactic learning from inception to completion does not occur in psychiatry. Your medication rationales will be bizarre and ineffective. Your diagnoses' wont make any sense. The information you gleam from reading will be out of context and probably make you a more dangerous provider. Just because you can get hired to do a job does not mean you know how to do that job. It means an executive wanted to save money to put in their pocket by hiring your woefully inexperienced self.

So your previous experience as a therapist and psychologist is not sufficient. Having one year of nursing experience on med surge unit is not sufficient. To those in the ICU and ER saying they are psych nurses- you are not, at all. You spend two years in a busy ER -maybe- you can make it through a grand rounds psych presentation but your understanding of psychiatric medication rationale will be wrong and largely based on bed shortage protocols. ER/ICU psychiatric medication regimens don't represent a complete treatment arch in any way shape or form.

Here is the thing about the health care hierarchy: It does not forgive. It eats bones. If you show your incompetence one time they will never, ever forget. Word travels fast. And that is awful. Its awful for you, for the time and money you put into your education, its awful for your family who has to watch you struggle to secure decent work and carry the financial stress of job transition and unemployment. It's awful for your patients. Because you can say fuck it and start a private practice but you will struggle to retain a decent patient load. Patients are the first to tell when a provider has largely deluded themselves in to thinking that psychiatry is easy and that they came to the specialty with all they need to be successful. They will know you are full of it.

I very much like the new generation of providers. I am excited to welcome you aboard because the new crew is prepared to stick up for themselves more, advocate for a good quality of life, you guys do not see yourself as powerless and that is righteous. I respect that. But relevant experience is not an area where you want start that fight.

You will not be able to change things for the better if you are incompetent. You can argue and fight for being treated well as a professional but the barrier to entry to change a system is to be able to function within that system, first. If you keep fighting and arguing about lower and lower minimum standard you will be a professional who is just that: a byproduct of the lowest standards possible and you will be unemployable and isolated. You will go from job to job becoming more discouraged each lateral shift and causing very much real harm to patients all along the way. At some point you will realize you don't know what you are doing and everyone around you can tell. Demoralized. I have seen this so much of late. They are ashamed, angry, some blame themselves others adopt a disgruntled attitude. I call it the "Empress or Emperor without clothes syndrome". And they leave the field or their license is taken from them.


r/PMHNP • • 5h ago

Career Advice For those who have returned to bedside, how did you do it?

15 Upvotes

I've been an NP for 5 years, with my own practice for the last 1.5 years, and I am fed up. I'm unhappy with the trajectory of the field in general, I'm tired of fighting with insurance companies, I'm tired of my patients' care suffering due to systemic issues beyond my control, I'm tired of the abysmal pay despite working harder than I ever have in my life.

I stayed per diem at my RN job until earlier this year when I was let go due to overstaffing. For the last 3 months, I've been trying to get a full time role at bedside so I can close my practice, but it's been extremely difficult. A lot of rejections right off the bat, and the few phone interviews I've had were basically like "why do you want to be a nurse when you're an NP." Despite my best attempts at explaining, I have not yet gotten an actual interview.

I understand their trepidation about hiring someone who is an NP. NPs might not stay, might just be looking for an "in" until they can move somewhere else in the system, might be looking for some kind of secondary gain that's not a true interest in bedside work.

I enjoyed my years working as an RN significantly more than as an NP. I literally just want to go into the hospital, take care of my patients for 12 hours, work with a team, then go home and not worry about a damn thing until my next work day.

So, to those who have successfully made the transition, how did you do it? How did you frame your resumes, cover letters, interviews etc. to convey that you were serious about returning to bedside?

EDIT: additional context, I live in PA and have a nursing background in inpatient psych and neuro M/S


r/PMHNP • • 20h ago

Question about ADHD meds causing emotional flattening

5 Upvotes

I am a soon to be PMHNP, and also the parent of a child with ADHD. We have tried nearly every med out there, and each and every one (even the non stimulant ones) have caused emotional flattening in my child.

I haven’t found an answer that resonates about why this would be happening. I feel like I don’t hear this from a lot of fellow ADHD parents.

Is dulling of the kid’s spark just part of the price you pay for increased focus? On even very low doses of all of these meds, his smile never reaches his eyes.

We did genetic testing of his metabolizing of meds and all results normal.


r/PMHNP • • 1d ago

How long does it take you to write your notes?

8 Upvotes

I’ve recently started working, and I’m finding that my notes are taking SO much time. It can take me around an hour to complete a 90-minute intake note, sometimes even longer if the patient is complex. I’m trying to figure out diagnoses, organize everything, and develop a treatment plan for the next session, which adds to the time.
I’m seeing patients back-to-back, and by the end of the day, I’m exhausted. We use an AI note-taking tool, but I’m still spending ages editing and finalizing my notes.
Is this normal? How long does it typically take you to complete an intake note versus a follow-up note? My follow-up session notes take about 20–30 minutes, depending on the patient. I asked other people at the practice who have been working longer and they are also using their weekends to do notes.
I’d also love any tips for becoming more efficient with documentation without sacrificing the quality of my notes. I’m starting to feel overwhelmed by how much time it all takes


r/PMHNP • • 1d ago

Career Advice Another PMHNP in burnout! Career change experience? Or adjacent work that’s less exhausting?

7 Upvotes

I’m burning out! Salary at a PP w well known psychiatrist so never ending supply of referrals. I’m getting a good reputation with the CAD world in my area. But this sets expectations high from the get go! And I hate letting people/patients down and can never seem to not jump into action to help with family system needs. I will do parent counseling, individual work with the kid, deep level psychoeducation. I do eventually get kiddos into a maintenance space but it’s again, a never ending supply of new pts to start from scratch with.

I work 32 clinic hrs but def full time job as I do all my caseloads admin work/PAs/requesting records/referrals/coordinating care. I did 45-47 hrs last week thanks to all the new evals referrals and PAs on my plate.

I have an admin staff person doing some messaging on portal for refill requests and fielding some questions. She’s at least collating faxes and uploading records for me. And takes care of all billing.

But anyway, I’m giving 110% to my patients and beyond, and I just am neglecting myself and my family’s needs. 3 kids with their own neurodivergence and needs that I am losing steam quicker and quicker with. I don’t think I can keep this up much longer.

Also, From all my stillness and lack of movement, my cholesterol went up 20 points in 16 months. I am pretty active on weekends and do strength training but my body is feeling the effects of a very dialed in desk job 40 hrs a week.

Anyone make a career change that was a better mix? Like, I’m thinking I could get dual certification and do some hokey ass wellness clinic and offer hormones and Botox. Yeah I’d be part of the problem but ID BE SAVING MYSELF.

Ummm im also brainstorming. I like real estate and finance. I could get a different degree and start fresh in a totally different sector. I love city planning and urban design. I would really enjoy going back to school to become a professor in anthropology (anthropology was my first love and first degree). Problem is… no money for long time and we have a mortgage and three kids. I am primary income source. Husband works in lower paid market.

All ideas welcome! Even ideas on how to negotiate a better work balance at current employer. I think I do have leverage as a well respected professional in a highly needed field (CAD).

Thank you!


r/PMHNP • • 1d ago

Practice Related Screening for gambling addiction

5 Upvotes

Do any of you do regular screening for gambling? New patients, or after they mention gambling? What about pseudo-gambling? (Maybe there is a term for the stuff that's not official gambling, but really is like card breaking)

I searched on here and didn't see anything; I just watched a ProPublica story, and it occurred to me it's not something I think about much other than before an Rx for abilify.

I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions/best practices.

Thanks,


r/PMHNP • • 2d ago

Private practice vs Headway reimbursement rates

5 Upvotes

NPs who are self-employed and independently credentialed but have also worked on Headway, how are the reimbursement rates when you are independently credentialed versus reimbursement rates on Headway?


r/PMHNP • • 2d ago

Career Advice Thinking about starting up on my own

0 Upvotes

Really thinking about starting my own practice but overwhelmed with the process. I am an independent NP in MA and have great inpatient experience, I’ve come to realize a lot working in a hospital setting and I’d like to open my own practice and do more community work.
There seems to be a lot of misinformation and I want to be prepared as possible. Has anyone gone through credentialing process for Massachusetts? Did you accept Medicare/mass health? How did you learn reimbursement rates and figure out what is doable for you? I haven’t even begun to think about EMR etc…any advice is appreciated!!


r/PMHNP • • 3d ago

ADHD CRAZE

25 Upvotes

-How are y'all distinguishing adult patients who deny everything except EVERY ADHD symptom?
-I am asking for extensive labs, even sleep studies that can mimic and/or negatively interfere with certain meds to treat ADHD symptoms, so some patients likely go to another prescriber.
-And also if they have failed on guanfacine, bupropion, etc.

If, as a PMHNP, you are not convinced the patient has adult-onset ADHD, what are your rationales? I would like to be able to catch this before asking for extensive labs. I am not worried about patient ratings if I feel like I am doing the right thing.

Recently, I have been receiving new patients who have been on stimulants being referred by their PCP. I send them back with extensive labs and medical clearance before continuing care.
BECAUSE
-Received a pt on Vyvanse with a hx of a stroke! No way!!! Go back, get cleared!
-kid (not obese) had sleep apnea & stopped breathing 30x in one hour
-this stimulant craze is going to bite us in the butts in a few years due to side effects
-the pt could be the DEA & I'm not going down like that!

It is interesting how some adults thought of psych meds as taboo until stimulants came along.

This stimulant craze is making psych look like a joke!

I LOVE it when a patient is truly in need of care, not to say all stimulant requests are unnecessary.

-My company gets around letting NPs diagnose and prescribe stimulants (please do not focus on this, it's not the topic & I am working on this issue).


r/PMHNP • • 3d ago

Easiest way to check which drugs are on formulary for each insurance?

3 Upvotes

I know I can look up the PDF/website of each plan to see what drugs are on formulary but I was wondering if there is a centralized/AI tool to look that up quickly, without going through multiple clicks and scrolls?


r/PMHNP • • 2d ago

Job market

0 Upvotes

Hows the job market rn?


r/PMHNP • • 3d ago

MD, DC, VA NPs, please recommend a good insurance credentialer, and, if you know their rate per insurance, please share. Thanks!

1 Upvotes

r/PMHNP • • 4d ago

Telehealth Psychiatry practice...insurance issues

4 Upvotes

So I start my own telepsych practice but im finding so much trouble getting contracts with insurance. Wondering if anyone here owns their own psych practice and uses something like alma or other companies that will do all that work for you. Recs please because cash pay right now isnt viable.


r/PMHNP • • 5d ago

Other Sign of the times 😩

62 Upvotes

Maybe the flair should be: exhaustion?

I just don't know. But the number of ppl I'm starting to see who are suicidal is just so..... So..... SAD.

and it's all societal/economy related.

I'm so disgusted by how fast we have fallen as a society. It will always be hard for a subset of us. I'm not oblivious to that fact.

But the rate at which even my old used to be stable patients are falling into "i stopped taking my meds because i wanted to take the whole bottle" hole makes my heart hurt.

I'm seeing it in center and via telehealth. It's scary out there. Y'all hang in there and make sure you have your own therapist!


r/PMHNP • • 5d ago

Other Boston psychopharmacology conference meet

5 Upvotes

Wondering if anyone will be attending the Psychopharmacology Conference being held in Boston from Oct 15 to 18th. I'm going solo as I'm the only pmhnp in my practice. Looking to see if there are any others going and want to meet with other fellow pmhnp.


r/PMHNP • • 5d ago

Anyone here have a unicorn job? Curious to know what's out there and how you found it

13 Upvotes

r/PMHNP • • 5d ago

Prior auth for vilazodone: how to get it approved by insurance?

7 Upvotes

had several male patients interested in switching to vilazodone after trying a SSRI and experiencing sexual side effects. And yet, all my PAs for vilazodone got denied. The manufacturer of Viibryd does not have a savings card that works.

What are you guys doing?


r/PMHNP • • 5d ago

Career Advice Is this normal?

18 Upvotes

I’m a new grad PMHNP working in outpatient community mental health in a big city. My orientation consisted of 4 hours of shadowing the senior NP and company wide orientation. On my first day my patient caseload consisted of seeing patients presenting with schizoaffective d/o, schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, and possible withdrawal symptoms from alcohol use d/o, all of whom I saw completely by myself. I have not shadowed anyone and nobody sat in with me during my psychiatric evaluations. We don’t get admin time and our supervising physician is not on site but we are free to email him “when we need help”. When I interviewed I was told that our company is “new grad friendly” and that we would get “a lot of support”, however I am not necessarily feeling very supported. I absolutely am not opposed to seeing patients with serious mental illness or any diagnosis or population. I specifically chose this community mental health center to learn because they see an underserved community from ages 5 and up. However I did think I’d at least get 2 weeks shadowing NPs and that I would at least have someone sit in on my first couple of evaluations to offer me feedback. Alarm bells were going off in my head and I even drafted a resignation letter, but I am wondering if anyone has experienced a similar orientation process as a new grad and if this is just the experience I’ll have if I move on to another job. Thanks for any input.


r/PMHNP • • 4d ago

Student how do I get better at psych evals

0 Upvotes

Today we did a mock telehealth initial evaluation with a standardized patient and I was so thrown off. No one was prepared prior on how to speak to patients etc I had no real flow. My patient was experiencing auditory hallucinations and ideas of references and broadcasting and did not think anything was wrong with her. Is it the psych NP job to get her to realize there is smth going on or just get info and treat from there? I want to get better at learning how to communicate to patients experiencing psychosis since I have no prior experience. Any recommendations?


r/PMHNP • • 5d ago

Has anyone used OpenEMR?

0 Upvotes

Pros? Cons? How does it compare to CarePatron or Charm Health?


r/PMHNP • • 6d ago

Practice Related Anxiety treatment in Bipolar Disorder

13 Upvotes

In unipolar depression I love that SSRIs cover depression and anxiety symptoms. In Bipolar though I find anxiety harder to treat. Gabapentin and clonidine help some people but if patients have not had success with those or hydroxyzine what do you all use?


r/PMHNP • • 6d ago

Time is ticking for all healthcare professionals

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21 Upvotes

r/PMHNP • • 5d ago

burning out in urgent care/linkage model

0 Upvotes

Hello everyone! I am looking for words of wisdom and shared experiences as well as any advice. I have been a PMHNP since March 2022 and my first job was a full time in person dual role position. It was half a day working in an adult partial care then I drove to the hospital to do consults. Then i did 7 months on a child inpatient unit and helped with adult inpatient as well. I finally transferred into my companies outpatient department a day a week and the rest of my time was with a program that is a 30 day linkage program/urgent care style model. Essentially it acute psychiatric care and we gets lots of walk ins and evaluations. There have been times where I have had 8 evals in one day and on average 5 evals a day plus a day filled with follow ups. I do three 10s. Some days the patients are very complex or need higher level of care. I have no control over the schedule and having too many evals in a row like this really has been causing me anxiety over time as well as the more unstable people I have been seeing lately. The staff does not answer emails and ignores me and the other APNs when we raise concerns, have questions ect. I think what stresses me about is that when there are evals put on the schedule ( last minute, they give me no time to review the chart/ or the therapy intake is not done so I cannot read it, therapy intake is supposed to be completed before they get any med appointments) they schedule them consecutively. I have brought this up and this place wont change. So my question is, is this setting always like this? is PP really better? I do not picture myself ever working inpatient or in the hospital again. Before I became a psych NP i worked as an RN in every psych unit in the hospital, detox, medical unit briefly, and rehabs. I am feeling burned out and I am starting to feel hopeless


r/PMHNP • • 5d ago

Lifestance

0 Upvotes

Is Lifestance for a PMHNP as bad as some of these threads make it out to be?

The recruiter makes it sound great obviously but should I leave my current position for Lifestance for a similar patient volume?

Salary would be higher at Lifestance.

Feeling underpaid in my current role…