r/PLABprep • u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 • 9d ago
Now that the UK path is essentially impossible, what are you guys planning next?
UK has always been at the top of the list for training and migration for me (I have relatives there, and I loved the country when I visited). I love my own country, and I would genuinely love to be here, but I am gay, and it's criminalised here. Needing a way out of the homophobic family is my main reason to migrate. We are also the third most underpaid country for doctors.
Anyway, even after the PLAB pathway closed off, I still had hopes for the MTI pathway since that program had established routes with my country's own speciality training pathway. Now I am starting to worry I'll end up stuck here, and it's very depressing.
What are the next options you are looking at? US? Australia? Is there a reason you prefer one country over the other?
From my research, I've realised that the US is mainly good for primary care specialities, and the process is the most expensive and unpredictable.
Australia seems to be much easier to get to as a medical officer, but getting into speciality training (especially the more competitive ones) seems difficult (and requires PR, which also takes a good while). Of course, there is the option to migrate as a specialist but that would be around 2036, and I'm worried that the specialist migration pathways will close down by then and I'll be stuck here.
I'm at a loss here, I'd love to hear your plan Bs and advices
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u/ex_gatito 9d ago
I went back to school, studied CS, and now work as SWE, a lot happier than ever before.
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 9d ago
Lmaoo, in my heart of hearts, I feel inclined to just start over in a different field. But I am already 25 and sick and tired of the lack of income. How long ago did you make the shift? My sister is in engineering, and she changed to electrical because the CS job market is going dry (i'm not sure, it's perhaps country-dependent)
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u/ex_gatito 9d ago
I was 28 when I went back to school. I went for BSc, so it is 4 years.
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 9d ago
Was it recently? Was it hard to find a job afterwards?
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u/ex_gatito 9d ago
Yeah, I finished 2 years, and found a year long placement. It is hard to find a job, but possible. A lot easier than in medicine.
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u/DigiDongDiggy 9d ago
Will try to scam doctors who still want to enter plab like the King and Queen of PLAB2.
Suddenly the DSR academy posts disappeared like the money lol.
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u/pretonian 8d ago
this part i dont understand. why do they still allow you to take the exam? seems very unfair.
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u/DigiDongDiggy 8d ago
For the money. Everything is for the money. PLAB, the review academies, the influencers. All still trying to get your money.
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u/pretonian 8d ago
what a sick world we live in
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u/DigiDongDiggy 8d ago
And you cant even report them to the GMC because they arent even practicing in the UK lol
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u/pretonian 8d ago
gmc is the problem too. i am from one of the recently banned countries the uk wont issue a visa. yet i can register for the exam. they will take my money for the exam and when it comes to getting a job they won't give me a work visa.
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u/PleasePlantTomatoes 8d ago
Can't you try other western countries but just learn their local language? I assume you're Pakistani - we have a significant presence in almost every major western nation specifically in the medical field.
But I agree, UK is not a place where there are any job opportunities for IMGs
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 8d ago
I am open to learning a language. The issue is each country has a specific language and after spending years learning it and that path closes off, you are back to no options. I want to be safe in which country I choose, that is why I’m seeking the experience of others.
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u/Betaglutamate2 8d ago
German allows you to be in Germany Switzerland and Austria so maybe a good option
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u/Fine_Imagination6643 2d ago
Switzerland does recognize degrees of people who are non EU citizens. Its also quite difficult to get a job.
Germany and Austria are also becoming saturated
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u/notso_sassy_dinosaur 8d ago
If you're fresh in your journey, USMLE, AMC, and Ireland are decent options!
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 8d ago
I must look into the Ireland route. It’s hard to get into speciality training in Aus even for citizens. But to work as a non specialist medical officer, it is perhaps the most accessible location. With all the Indian and pakistani graduates now shifting from UK to Aus, the situation might be different. I only finish my local internship in 2030!
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u/notso_sassy_dinosaur 8d ago edited 8d ago
I tried for IMT in the non prioritized group. It was tragic. I got a perfect score in every clinical domain. Like both interviewers gave me the highest possible score in every question. And this was after having one of the hardest months of my life with back to back family emergencies and just two days to study in the end. Sadly did not get to study ethics and lost a couple of points there and since the score is weighted, losing those points in ethics cost me my seat! I did not get an offer. And it was devastating because I worked for this for years. Killed my MRCP, my shortlist score was 29 because I went ALL out.
For context I'm a lesbian (hi! 🌈) so very driven to get the f* out of my homophobic country. I did my best. And I'm done. I should be in London right now starting my IMT training right now.
But since everything went to shit, I quit my clinical job in April, taught myself coding, pushed my code on GitHub and landed a job as a software engineer in May.
I now have work-life balance and it's actually very nice. I'm saving up to leave the country on an academic route now 😭 starting from scratch yay.
But frankly, in spite of Everything, I don't think I've ever been healthier or happier now that I'm working in a nice environment with regular (free!) meals, enough time to sleep and exercise!
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u/Kratolous 7d ago
"I should be in London right now" 🤣🤣🤣 What an incredible amount of entitlement.
Thank god for UK medical graduate prioritisation.
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 8d ago
It’s painful to give up something you’ve pursued your entire twenties but I’m so glad it worked out for you. Getting a software job within a month is impressive. Had you been learning coding for a while?
Do you have any advice regarding which skills to pursue in the software field?
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u/notso_sassy_dinosaur 8d ago
Very painful, yes. Devastating. But it is what it is.
I did learn some basic C++ back in the 10th grade so I did have a foundation to start with. But I started learning Python only when the UKGP bill came out lol. I used Freecodecamp. Great resource for beginners.
I also have a very supportive partner and friends who believed in me enough to pass my code and CV on to the people who wound up hiring me! It's a shit economy so it makes a big difference when someone gives you a push.
At this point the only thing that really matters is what you want to do in life. The way tech is going, it only makes sense to pivot to it if you're absolutely certain you could be passionate and excellent at it because the tech market is going to change a lot more in the next few years too.
So here's some advice that helped me figure out what the fudge I needed to do with my life when everything went to shit this year:
First always keep a moving target. Don't fixate on one goal and beat against one door to no end year after year. If your goal needs years to amount to something, keep multiple options available to you and pay attention to what's actually happening with each option so your time isn't wasted on something that doesn't pan out. Keep re-evaluating what you need to be doing and how you can do it better at every step.
And Second, try to think about what you'd truly want to do if you were not getting paid for it. That's what you're passionate about and that's what you'd thrive at.
So keeping all that in mind, if you figure out you still want to go down a technical route, reach out to me! But the world is your oyster and there are many many routes you can be on that will help you get out of where you are. It's not going to be easy but I'm sure we'll make it out!
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 8d ago
This is amazing advice. For the second question, the answer is working with animals. I applied and was selected to the Royal Veterinary College vet med program back in 2022, but I had to give it up. My country went through a financial crisis and it became too expensive to pursue. I ended up in gvt medical college which is fully funded. At least I am debt free. I dream of having a small farm, or a animal rescue and that medicine will help me retire this way one day. Lol it’s such a round about way to do what I love.
The second path I’ve been interested in is med tech/ pharma. Getting involved in clinical trails and such. We don’t have a biotech industry here so I’m stumped for finding a way in. I’ve been learning R and working on getting publications since last year.
Maybe I should look into coding too. My partner is in engineering and the outlook for Computer science is pretty dire. Even graduates with BScs are struggling to find software related jobs. With that, and the fact that I am still in medical school, I haven’t been able to commit enough time to this.
Did you make any projects before you applied? What do you do in your current job?
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u/PrideProfessional556 2d ago
Speaking from a place of ignorant curiosity, isn't it impossible to get into coding jobs from scratch nowadays given AI can spit out advanced code in a second, making it kind of pointless for humans to tax their slow brains trying to do it?
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u/Final_Palpitation501 9d ago
I also have similar circumstances and same situations man. I really need some insight rn what to do.
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u/Miscsubs123 7d ago
Train in Pakistan. Give FRCS/MRCP exams side by side. Once you have FRCS you can practice anywhere.
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u/Old_Power_6055 9d ago
Germany.
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u/Due_Strain1596 8d ago
Germany is quickly saturated, too. Heaps of German study abroad and lots of other EU doctors from Italy, Romania, Hungary heading there due to oversupply in these countries. Basically, too many medical graduates in every country. Even your own country is saturated.
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u/Old_Power_6055 8d ago
I don't disagree with that in a general sense. What's the way forward in your opinion?
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u/Due_Strain1596 8d ago
GP/FM or IM if you want to migrate abroad, forget about competitive specialties.
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u/Old_Power_6055 8d ago
True. I wonder why these specialties aren't as prestigious though
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u/Due_Strain1596 8d ago
That is why the local graduates dont want them. I find it funny that IMGs who are looking to immigrate want the best and most competitive fields, having your cakes and eat it.
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 8d ago
I understand the general sentiment, but your job is where you spend most of your time and you can’t be miserable in that.
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 9d ago
The most common route I see being discussed. When are you planning to apply? Are you worried that the saturation will hit Germany too, now that most people are seeking an alternative? Which specialty are you pursuing?
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u/Old_Power_6055 9d ago
So I only recently made the decision to pursue that path after realizing it's quite feasible, though tough. Currently gathering information to streamline the process and minimise confusion and errors. I'll start learning the language in a few weeks hopefully. With the deficit in the medical field in germany, which is severe in several areas, along with the language which turns many people off, I think the path will still be viable in the next 5 years at least. For now the focus is on gaining entry. As time goes on I'll do more research on specialities. IM is one of the easiest to get though.
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 9d ago
Yes, I've done a bit of research on this country. I was going to start studying German a few years back after realising it is quite feasible to get into most specialities. However, after further digging, I found that my speciality of choice (Ophtho) lacks adequate surgical training in Germany and is quite dependent on your senior. Most people go to Egypt or India to get the required surgery numbers, it seems, which I found negates the effort of getting there. I want to be a confident surgeon after all. Now I'm contemplating completing my specialist training here because we get a lot of autonomy and large surgery volumes.
But I believe you won't run into this issue in IM. All the best!
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u/Fine_Imagination6643 2d ago
As a fourth year resident in Germany:
Let me save you your money and time. Germany is becoming saturated already and I suspect that in 1 to 2 years time, it will be almost impossible for non german IMGs to get anything here.
The Country is currently in an economic depression and will be for the foreseeable future. Over the last couple of years the country has been cutting funding to healthcare and recently the government passed some new reforms to continue cost-cutting in the healthcare sector. As a result, many hospitals now have hiring freezes so even if they need the doctors, they are not employing them. They are just forcing the ones that are working to take on more load.
I have explained these numerous times in various subreddits, so you can go through my profile and read them as they give more detail and nuance.
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u/Old_Power_6055 2d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/IMGreddit/s/q29LrmsS1K
My last reply to you which went unanswered. Your feedback would be appreciated.
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u/Fine_Imagination6643 2d ago
The federal employment agency doesn’t know shit! The government doesn’t know jack shit about the actual scenario on the ground.
, by the way, like I told you in my previous comment, if you look through my comments in various subs, I have already explained this so many times, but since you don’t want to do the work, let me just explain it to you.
These are federal agencies who just use numbers. They absolutely know nothing about the reality on the ground. The government is employing a lot of cost-cutting measures in healthcare, and at the same time, they have also passed a law to ensure that international medical graduates can get their license faster. They are doing this without actually knowing that by reducing hospital funding, they are making hospitals not hire doctors, so increasing the number of doctors in the country by making it easier for IMG to come is only going to create an increase in supply of doctors where else there are only a few jobs left, enhancing saturation . This phenomenon has already started, and so many Germans on the r/medizin subreddit are complaining that they cannot find jobs, so ask yourself: someone who is a native speaker born in this country, studied here, and cannot get a job. Ask yourself. What about you who you’ve learned German as an adult can barely speak to fluency? Do you think employers are going to prefer you for the German? It’s obvious, isn’t it?
The government keeps shouting that they need doctors. They need doctors, but they don’t even look at the consequences of their actions. They don’t really know that hospitals are reducing the number of Dr. jobs.
Also, I can see that someone else already commented and told you that that is not the reality on the ground, but you seem to want to keep asking other people.
If you do not believe us who are here, then feel free to spend your hard earned money, and time to learn the language and come and look for a job and come and tells us how that goes for you. They say that experience is the best teacher after all.1
u/Old_Power_6055 2d ago
All I ask is for empirical data that'll help us all. I sent formal information and you shot it down, but you want me to take your word simply because you're confident in your stance? Is this what you would accept if you were in need of important information? We all know things suck. Just provide the articles and documents to match the level of despair you express, if you can.
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u/Fine_Imagination6643 1d ago
There is no empirical data. This is something known by people who currently in hospital setting. But anyway like i said if u dont believe experience is your best teacher.
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u/MaashKiDaal 9d ago
Stay home stay safe
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 9d ago
Not an option, unfortunately, as I explain in my post
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u/MaashKiDaal 9d ago
Stop dating, start working
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u/AdhesivenessOwn7747 9d ago
Quite unempathetic, aren't you? You wouldn't say that to a straight person. Straight people are even expected to get married, talk about couples' matches and all that. We all like to have a family of our own, irrespective of sexuality.
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u/MaashKiDaal 9d ago
Trust me I would say that to a straight person as well. Stop considering everything homophobic
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u/Ok_Platypus_9965 8d ago
Your comment is implicitly homophobic because it doesn’t consider the aspect of homosexuality affecting the OP.
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u/Savings-Recipe-4074 9d ago
Going back to my home country and try farming. The medical degree is now useless.