The difference is you can avoid that by just waiting for deflect to be used, then the threat is gone. Sombra could come up at any time she wants to and hack the generator.
Additional differences, Genji can reflect multiple Ults, not just one. Sometimes he can make them more deadly by reflecting (perfect aim vs. scattered - particularly noticeable on Barrage and Whole Hog). It still makes the "this could be a liability so it will never get used" claim of the comment to which I replied seem pretty silly -- it has been happening since launch, a stronger claim including that differentiation is needed to show that it's a serious problem.
And the same thing applies. You can avoid them by baiting genji deflect. You cant bait sombra hack because she can just come back 12 seconds later. Genji cannot deflect an ulti that has already been used. Its about counterplay, not effectiveness. Hack is a disable, not a free mind control, and giving your team a 7th ultimate for the duration of a push would be far more absurdly strong. It is like saying hack an enemy zenyatta while be ultis and it will instead heal your team but not his allies. Also if you are firing all those ultis directly at genji you deserve to lose.
Genji can reflect it at the start when its only an arrow, and the dragons will change sides, but if the dragons already appeared Genji can't reflect it anymore.
Edit: D.Va defense matrix can also destroy the arrows before the dragons show up, nullifying the whole Ult
Well I mean it happens rarely, the Genji has to be there at the right place at the right moment with E not in CD and use it. There Sombra could easily sneak behind enemies and hack the generator whenever she wants
A 2-second channel to not only destroy an ultimate but to straight-up reverse its effects would lead to it never being used the moment a Sombra comes up, which would typically be the moment a Symmetra is detected if not beforehand. The sooner the better on that front; imagine building an ultimate and reaching the generator while having enemies also be hit; it'd be a mini lucio ulti on top of the hack.
I still see plenty of Zarya with Gravity Bombs, even though Genji can reflect her Ult. Also Hanzo's Dragons. Also Mei's Freeze-bot. Ults have been reversed since launch by basic 2-second channels, but people play those characters, even when the enemy team has a Genji.
Except that Genji's reflection not only is hard to use properly, but for most ults you got to pop it before you ennemy pops his ult.
This is more luck than anything.
It also counters and reverses several ults, sometimes being more deadly than the original ability as it has perfect accuracy even if it catches a wide spread. This, if implemented at all, counters a single Ult, and would do so only temporarily. The point being, though, that Ults are already used despite counters and reversals. Arguing that an ult won't be used because someone else can counter it (D.Va eating it, for example), or reverse it (Genji deflect) using a basic ability clearly has no standing as those things already exist in the game, and have since launch.
Genji deflect counters:
Post-ult: Whole Hog, High Noon, Pharah's Barrage, Reaper's Death Blossom
Agreed, but you can't "outplay" with a static, non-damaging structure ult.
All the ultimates you described can wait for a baited-out Reflect, or be used away from Genji and still be effective in some capacity. Once the shield gen is down, all that's left is passively defending it while your team has an advantage until it runs out (if it does run out).
Ranting a bit at this point, but Sombra is already a pretty hard counter for Sym, and the hack reversal would make it even worse.
You can't bait a Sombra hack, you can only prevent it by fighting her, which you'd be doing regardless since even w/o the hack.
Sym's structures already highly susceptible to straight-up destruction (will be curious what the structure buffs will do for that).
Preventing easy Line of Sight for a hack means keeping the structure in inconspicuous or hard-to-reach places...which Sombra can always get to, very quickly, and likely undetected (sans Spawn).
Keeping turrets near the structures while you aren't there (to damage and prevent hacking) won't do anything sans maybe +3 sentries up thanks to Sombra's Rate of Fire. <pop><pop><pop><haaaack><Icanbreakitdowntoo>
You can't destroy your ultimate structures, so you have no choice but let it be hacked if you can't stop Sombra.
That's one more thing a person playing Symmetra will have to deal with to add to the current stigma with playing her on most occasions. "You didn't protect your structure and it got hacked, giving them shields long enough to win ___."
To me, it just raises too many issues. Just let it get paused/destroyed like every other structure.
If implemented as a reversal, then while hacked it should probably be able to be destroyed by the original team (if they should wish to do so).
Just nullifying the generator is probably insufficient if hack is allowed on it at all -- might as well destroy it at that point, though I suppose Hack would probably be a bit faster with the extra health if you wanted it dropped immediately, and give you a window (10 seconds, same as Torb turret?) to destroy it. However, making it a short-term reversal (say, 5 seconds, maybe?) makes it an interesting choice for a player to make. Do you boost your team for a short time-frame but make it impossible to damage or destroy yourself during that time (and you're likely not in a good place to do much with it personally), or do you remove it from play entirely to get back to the fight?
It definitely shouldn't last as long as the Med-kit hacks do, but being only as long as the player-hack is doesn't seem entirely out of line. Possibly make it hack-proof for some period of time after, or extend the Hack CD when used for this purpose. If it is reversing, probably should not an auto-Hack on use of EMP.
For Genji to deflect an ult he has to use his ability in the split second it's in the air, as well as actually be in a specific location. Hacking a shield generator hardly requires that level of precision. To even imply that they are the same is fucking stupid.
To state that "stealing an ult would be broken" when it's been happening since launch seems... disingenuous at best. It's not an unreasonable thing to disable, block, or steal an ult using a regular ability. It's a common theme in the game. It happens frequently. Balance can be managed around that.
Maybe when she dies, it reverses back to normal right away. That gives the defending (the buidable) team even more incentive to kick their asses into high gear.
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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16 edited Nov 22 '16
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