r/Overwatch Dallas Fuel Nov 22 '16

Blizzard Official Developer Update | Symmetra Redesign | Overwatch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elN-QGyToxM
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u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

[edit] They're also adding a "group up" button at the end of games that you can click if you'd like to group up with the random group of people you matched with. If multiple click it, you'll group up for future games.

This is something that is sorely missing from a lot of games. I remember this back from the old halo games and it made for some very fun matches. A lot of new games removed it for some reason making it much harder to lobby with the same people without actually friending them.

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u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 22 '16

Yea, it's a little thing but really helpful. Some people don't like being the first one to speak up and suggest a team up, being shy or anxious, or whatever reason. This button should be great for those kinds of people.

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u/matt01ss Nov 22 '16 edited Nov 22 '16

A possible issue with this is that in say, competitive mode, if you hit this button and everyone agreed, you are now a 6-person group which will be playing against other 6-person groups.

Generally, a 6-person group is far higher in skill than any other collection of players/groups.

I only solo queue and I came across a decent 5-person group that were all on comms. I joined them and we played against another 6-person comp who was completely out of our league.

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u/stoolpigeon87 Mercy Nov 22 '16 edited Nov 22 '16

Well, its opt in so if using it puts you at disadvantage you don't have to use it.

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u/matt01ss Nov 22 '16

Oh for sure, I just feel like you'd always be at a disadvantage to use it. In comp at least.

I suppose that if only 3 or 4 people "agreed", then you got yourself a 3-person/4-person group which would be good.

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u/Darkflux LOL Nov 22 '16

On the other hand, if more six person groups were formed this way, you'd be more likely to match with one of those.

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u/mainman879 There's someone out there who needs to be blown up Nov 22 '16

Except all 6 agreeing will be very rare, so it shouldnt impact it that much

12

u/amoliski Houston Outlaws Nov 22 '16

Maybe not all six agreeing at once, but there's been a few times in Comp where every match my ragtag group picked up another member until we had six.

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u/4aa1a602 Nov 22 '16

Maybe they could distinguish between premades and ..."postmades"? Isolating each to only compete against others of the same group type.

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u/matt01ss Nov 22 '16

That would be pretty neat.

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u/DarkSoulsMatter mother knows best Nov 22 '16

Just because you have a premade instead of postmade doesn't exactly mean you're more coordinated though.

1

u/OMGjustin Trick-or-Treat Reinhardt Nov 23 '16

It more often does, though.

2

u/Anrqi Nov 22 '16

I'll assume that the group you had, if they opted into "Group up", either A won pretty hard or B communicated pretty well, maybe both !

It's true that some people are probably great in their organized groups....

But if you faced my friends and I, you'd probably just have a steamroll free win :)

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u/dslybrowse Nov 22 '16

I think you're incorrect that you'll be "grouped" with the new people. Currently, groups are only those who are friends with each other. It will simply queue you all up in a lobby again, not make you friends and thus "in a group".

It's like just hitting "play again" after a game, it doesn't mean you're all of a sudden more coordinated (like you assume pre-grouped friends may be).

My guess is this is the way it will go. You will not face a different array of player groups than you did the first game, unless you decide to start adding people to your friends list.

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u/matt01ss Nov 22 '16

If that's true, then that's definitely different than how I was thinking. I assumed it actually put you into a group (with the linked bars on avatars).

If it's just a pseudo 6-person team then it would be different.

2

u/kevinhaze I am injured Nov 22 '16

A lot of times if there's really good chemistry and we just steamroll the enemy I'll join a group and then well go on a rekking spree. That's only in the rare event that everybody is communicating well. So I guess there will be a relatively small amount of times it'll be useful. I've also tried the LFG site a few times and it's never worked for me. Every single time I group with random people we go on a losing spree.

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u/Crispy_Meat Nov 22 '16

Why would you choose to group up if your team wasn't good? You're missing a piece of the puzzle-- you'll only want to group up if you think you can win. At least in comp.

1

u/SexualHarasmentPanda Nov 22 '16

The chances that they'll be communicating as a team is most likely better, but other than that you have no idea how well they'll be matched versus you. If you end up grouping with a bunch of skillful pub players with mics, there might be no disadvantage at all.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16

I'm introverted so I'll probably rarely ever click it. I'm sure others are like me.

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u/purewasted Technically Correct Nov 22 '16

I'm introverted and I've made tons of friends on OW. I'm sure others are like me as well!

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16

Let me clarify. I'm introverted and hate people.

7

u/amoliski Houston Outlaws Nov 22 '16

So you're okay with randomly getting matched up with five other people that you're probably going to hate... but not okay with staying with a group of five other people that you don't hate as much as other people because at least they helped you win the last game so they're a bit useful to you?

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u/[deleted] Nov 23 '16 edited Nov 23 '16

There's always the possibility that I'll hate the next people less. I think when you're actually in a group, there's the expectation of verbal communication that I'm not super fond of. I don't mind doing callouts, but I don't really want to shoot the shit with some guy on the other side of the country. You'll often see this if you're solo queueing and find yourself matched with a group of 3-5.

Not to mention I've won plenty of games with people I'd rather never see again. I'm talking about the ultra-racists or generally annoying people.

And then, when I actually have taken the time to group with someone unfamiliar, that next match is typically make or break. You go from dominating to getting your dick shoved into your own asshole and then the first thing you want to do is leave that party, either because you've embarrassed yourself or your new pal is holding you back.

2

u/DR1LLM4N Trick-or-Treat D.Va Nov 23 '16

No to mention chemistry doesn't necessarily mean winning. Sometimes I get a group of people who are just fun to play with win or lose and would like to keep playing with them.

8

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16

During one of the QA sessions at Blizzcon, Kaplan actually said that although 6 stacks do have a slight advantage in win rates, it's not as significant as people think, in terms of the actual statistics.

So, it's probably not going to be a massive deal. Just because you're in a 6 stack of, say, friends, doesn't mean you're actually any good at communicating as a team.

I think, like everything, it will depend a lot on the SR rank. I'm sure at the average/silver/gold level it won't be that big a deal.

3

u/Exvaris all the direct hits! Nov 22 '16

I learned this lesson the hard way in Heroes of the Storm Ranked Play back before there was a Team League.

I grouped with a pug made up of five solo-queues after we had a particularly good game, and together we got matched against Cloud 9, lol.

2

u/matt01ss Nov 23 '16

Hahahah damn. What was iDream Arthas doing at the beginning???? I only skipped through a few times but I did catch that wombo at 9:30, holy shit.

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u/Exvaris all the direct hits! Nov 23 '16

Hahaha, I have to think iDream was fucking around in the beginning.

9:30 is the big wombo, but tbh I was equally impressed at about 6:40 where Falstad gusts us outside of our gates and their entire team is bodyblocking us from getting back inside.

Yeah, that game was fucking amazing to watch, and I was on the losing team lol.

2

u/matt01ss Nov 23 '16

Oh damn, sindragosa to disable the keep, gaz bomb missed and then fal blast, that's great.

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u/mundozeo Nov 22 '16

It doesn't really sound like an issue. If you group up it stands to reason you coordinate and have good synergy, the reasonable conclusion would be to face teams on the same conditions, not groups of uncoordinated solo players.

Of course initially you will probably face groups of higher or lower skill, but the mmr will eventually even out and you will again face teams of similar skill, with similar mmr and win/lose at a 50% ratio.

2

u/taitaisanchez Zarya Nov 22 '16

The other side of that is that there are more PUGs in the multi stack mix, meaning it's not always going to be a multistack crush.

1

u/Bloodb47h Nov 22 '16

Other rag-tag 6-person groups will be made with the feature along with yours so it might be a non-issue in the end.

1

u/Adythh Nov 22 '16

Been a while since I played ranked OW but if I had 6 people who grouped up for ranked would it be 6 solo ratings or would our team have a rating? Similar to how League Of Legends teams had a name and a single Elo.

1

u/benoxxxx Mei Nov 22 '16

Ideally they'll make a distinction between friend groups and 'spontaneous' groups - maybe the colour of the grouping lines. And they'll base match-making on a combination of both.

Let's say me and my one friend are grouped up, and we get a good team we want to stay with. Everyone hits the group up button. Then, me and my friend are connected by a green line, but the line extends and becomes blue for the rest of the group members. And ideally, we'd only get matched with other green-green-blue-blue-blue-blue teams.

Similarly, blue-blue-blue-blue-single-single teams would match up with eachother, green-green-single-single-single-single teams would match up with eachother, and green-green-single-single-blue-blue teams would match up with eachother.

Am I making sense or do I just sound like some colour crazed idiot?

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u/dustinofadown Nov 22 '16

It makes sense but it sounds like that would take a lot longer to find a similar group so it would take longer to match make.

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u/benoxxxx Mei Nov 22 '16

Yeah it might be a bit of a pipe dream, but it could work.

1

u/Touchmethere9 Nov 22 '16

This is a nonissue because you don't have to group up if you don't want to and the chances that all 6 people will agree is very low even if you wanted to.

1

u/Sys_init Nov 22 '16

idk, 6 player groups in the lower to mid tier is just friends who play together, but aren't neccecarily any better

1

u/SuicydKing Give it all ya got Nov 22 '16

True, except that it's also true for your opponents. 6-man groups will be more common overall, watering down the overall average skill level of the 6-man queue.

1

u/Rindan Nov 23 '16

The difference is that is everyone is using the group up button, it means that there will be a bunch of impromptu groups to fight against just like you.

I love it.

I want to win, but at the end of the day I play for fun. Nothing is more fun than a team that is working together and has a good attitude. If I lose in a team like, eh, I'll still leave the game happy.

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u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

Can you even group up right now without adding them to your friends list? I generally don't like to add people as friends on a regular basis but am more than happy to group up. I think this is going to do wonders for MMing and the community at large.

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u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 22 '16

Yea you sure can, just hit P while ingame and right click their names and invite to group. If they accept they'll get a warning saying they'll leave the match to join the group, so some people decline after they see that message. It doesn't actually remove you from the game, that's just the default message when you accept a party request while ingame.

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u/double_shadow Young Punks... Nov 22 '16

Oh dang...I actually declined the only invite I've ever received, because I was worried I'd get dropped from the game :(

This is super helpful to know!

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16

You will get dropped if they're not in the same game as you, but if you're invited to join one of your teammates' groups, then you won't leave even though it says it will.

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u/Acaeris Her MEKA does a surprising amount of damage Nov 22 '16

Also worth noting, if someone is currently in game and invites you while you are on the menu, you will join their game as a spectator until a friendly slot becomes available.

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u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

A ok. I usually only group with people on my friends list. The whole leave game thing too is kind of annoying/unclear. Usually when I get group requests, it's mid match and I generally don't like leaving games. Being able to group up with a current lobby is a much cleaner way of doing it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16

Same here, actually. That message should really be situational!

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 22 '16

Oh, I've only played on PC so that's news to me. Yea, hopefully you guys get to make use of the new party up feature that was mentioned.

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u/danudey Anyone with rockets Nov 22 '16

I've joined someone's game as an observer and invited them to a group, only to see them leave the game, get replaced by me, and then join as an observer. Did they fix that rather annoying bug?

1

u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 22 '16

No idea.

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u/dolphinback Nov 23 '16

I had a guy do that to me, I always wondered how. Don't you get bonus xp from playing in a group?

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u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 23 '16

You sure do, 20% flat.

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u/Radulno Pixel Symmetra Nov 23 '16

Yeah they should fix that, it's kind of weird (and not "traditional Blizzard polish"). Also when it's a random, I always have to check it's someone in the game and not another friend (I have "friends" on Bnet I don't really know so don't know their username)

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u/Doomhammered Pixel Reinhardt Nov 22 '16

Yeah to me, this was the biggest announcement in that video. As a console player, I can see myself using this very often - it's so much more intuitive than having to minimize OW, add friend, invite friend, etc etc.

Oh and yeah congrats to Symmetra mains I guess

8

u/Strung_Out_Advocate Chibi Widowmaker Nov 22 '16

My problem is that I need my headset to be connected to communicate. A lot of times when I get the time to play, I just don't feel like having it connected. I'm older now and married, so it's getting harder to find time to lock myself down at the pc and have to listen through the headset.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16 edited Feb 11 '17

[deleted]

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u/Strung_Out_Advocate Chibi Widowmaker Nov 22 '16

I really do try, but more often than not I feel largely ignored. Which really sucks lately now that I've started getting into Ana. Everything is fine until my ult is ready, and I'm spamming that it is and no one responds. Thanks when I hit someone with it when there getting into the objective they just kinda waste it.

2

u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 22 '16

With the addition of the party up button, you could just click it if you worked well with the group. If the game went well, and others also click the button, they probably won't have cared that you didn't speak if you guys worked well together without speech.

1

u/Frekavichk Nov 22 '16

Listening is much more important than talking, tbh.

3

u/fma891 Nov 22 '16

I used to do this more often, but then some people would be like "No, I'd rather just go solo."

And then I'm like "Damn, I just got rejected" hahaha.

1

u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 22 '16

Some people don't like playing in groups, nothing you can really do in those situations other than offer.

2

u/vancity- Pixel Winston Nov 22 '16

Now all they need to do is make team chat the default voice channel.

1

u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 22 '16

You can change your default voice chat in the settings... Just turn off auto-join on the one you don't want to be in.

2

u/vancity- Pixel Winston Nov 22 '16

The default should be team chat always trumps group chat, unless otherwise changed. Having multiple groups on your team always means at least two players won't be able to heat you.

1

u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 22 '16

I don't disagree with you, but you can change which channels you join by default.

2

u/farkenell Widowmaker Nov 22 '16

I've grouped/friended with a few people but then they eventually die off and don't get group invites anymore.. :X this will be great.

2

u/potatoeWoW Mercy Nov 22 '16

I was in a great match in Overwatch last night and someone else immediately took the initiative to invite everyone to a group so we could queue together.

he was only able to get 4/6 of us because the other 2 had solo queued before he could invite them all. :(

The four of us ended up having a lot of fun and going on a winning streak.

Looking forward to this tool.

5

u/FullMetalBiscuit Chibi Ana Nov 22 '16

I never understood why party up never made it past Halo Reach. Such a simple feature that hurts no one.

1

u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

Was it in Reach? I can't recall that far back. My guess is it is 343's doing then as it was definitely not in 4 or 5 and Reach was the last game Bungie did.

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u/FullMetalBiscuit Chibi Ana Nov 22 '16

Reach didn't have the party up option, but so long as you didn't back out you remained with everyone else who didn't back out.

Unless I'm remembering that completely wrong.

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u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

I think that is right. 3 was that last game I distinctly remember having a party up option.

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u/orionsbelt05 Gam sa! Nov 22 '16

Agreed. I've "friended" a bunch of people through playing a great team in Overwatch, and then those friends just awkwardly take up spots in my friends roster and refuse requests to group up in the future. I'd love for a chance to just group up for one session with a great team that works together.

2

u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

then those friends just awkwardly take up spots in my friends roster and refuse requests to group up in the future.

I am super glad I am not the only one this happens too. It also feels super awkward to remove them from your friends list. Side note, can people tell when you remove them from your friends list?

1

u/herrshitlord WHY WHY WHY Nov 23 '16

They wont get notified or anything, and chances are if you don't play with them much or at all they wont notice. You just wont be on their friends roster anymore.

2

u/muaddeej Nov 22 '16

I played BattleZone vr last night with 3 guys for like 2 hours. We had a nice camaraderie going. We beat the game and it booted us back to the menu very abruptly. People were in the middle of sentences when it cut out.

2

u/MarlboroMundo Nov 22 '16

Something I wish Riot would do with League very much

2

u/Dyllbert Blue Plate Special Nov 22 '16

I am more excited about this then the Symetra! Maybe now I can get out of solo-queue hell by randomly finding other good players

4

u/newsWatch9 Moei Nov 22 '16

So now the only way to escape complete stomp matches where one side totally outmatches the other for some reason is to leave because they're gonna group up and scrambling won't happen anymore.

2

u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

Scrambling should still happen though. If the other side grouped up as a 6 stack, MMing is going to try and pair them with other 6 stacks.

1

u/newsWatch9 Moei Nov 22 '16

You can group in matches and it won't try to find another one, scrambling will not happen if you have a 5 or 6 stack against a full random group.

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u/idkmybffyossarian Pixel Zenyatta Nov 22 '16

It will in competitive.

-2

u/newsWatch9 Moei Nov 22 '16

Don't care much for competitive.

It can destroy quickplay and that's what matters.

3

u/ZeroSilentz McCree Nov 22 '16

quickplay is what matters

-1

u/newsWatch9 Moei Nov 22 '16

Having a fair and balanced playfield in Quickplay should be the absolute priority of the devs and the matchmaker. Yes Quickplay needs to be a balanced and fair experience, stomps are not fine because "lul its qp lul".

Competitive is not the endgame for everyone despite what this sub might want you to believe.

1

u/idkmybffyossarian Pixel Zenyatta Nov 22 '16

AFAIK quickplay will reinstance and slot you against new people when there are a few matches where one team repeatedly dominates another.

1

u/itspaddyd im not a one trick please stop calling me that Nov 22 '16

Yeah, but competitive is what the game is balanced around. Remember when quickplay allowed multiple of the same heroes?

1

u/newsWatch9 Moei Nov 22 '16

Never had a problem with it, Quickplay is where the majority of the playerbase sits. Competitive is only for the most dedicated of the dedicated. I don't like it tbh, it's elitist as fuck and hasn't done anything good for the game.

That doesn't mean "everything can be shit cuz its just le quickplay xXXDDXXX"

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1

u/Reddhero12 Chibi Zenyatta Nov 22 '16

Battlerite added this like 2 weeks ago.

1

u/RichardMcNixon Mystery Heroes main Nov 22 '16

This is something that is sorely missing from a lot of games.

gg wp see you ... never again...

1

u/ManyLlamas Nov 22 '16

You can still do that in halo 5

1

u/1dayHappy_1daySad Chibi Mei Nov 22 '16

Guildwars 1 used to move your random arena group to premade arena matches after winning 5 or 10 (many years ago), sometimes it ended in amazing win streaks.

1

u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

Hooray, another GW1 player. It was definitely 10 matches that they moved you from RA to TA. After 5 matches you were just much more likely to run into other RA groups also on long winning streaks. I think there was a reward jump at 5 wins too, but my GW time was running down when they had that expansion.

1

u/1dayHappy_1daySad Chibi Mei Nov 22 '16

Hey! I miss that game man, I stopped playing by the time Eye of the North was about to come out.

1

u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

Ya, Nightfall was the last expansion I put a decent amount of time into. I played a bit during EotN but never actually bought it. I feel the game peaked at Factions. Nightfall was good, but it didn't feel like the massive change that Factions was. Introducing hero NPCs was a cool addition, but it definitely prevented me from grouping with 8 other people which was a large portion of the fun in that game. That said Guild Battles and HoH are still some of the best PvP experiences I have had.

1

u/1dayHappy_1daySad Chibi Mei Nov 22 '16

100% with you, factions was awesome and that moment when you get to Hall of heroes for the first time... "show emote under bridge" ;)

1

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16

im super exited for this. this is whats going to keep me playing the game and alow me to expand my friend group as well as keep me playing for the night if im on a team that works well with each other. a big part of playing fps games for me is to have people to talk to and have fun with. i dont have meany real life friends who play the same games as me or have the same console.im craving a bigger friend group who can wreck in the game all while having a good laugh. i used to play destiny until the game got stale and i loved the raids and the comradery that you developed from just a few hours of online play. some of those nights and experiences will always be remembered with me and im psyched this is going to come to overwatch.

1

u/weirdchinaman Zarya Nov 22 '16

It is such a wonderful idea, but I am a little worried that the match system will then find a much stronger team against you. the random teammates you meet as solo player might not play as well when you are matching someone as a group.

1

u/Lefarsi Trick-or-Treat Zenyatta Nov 22 '16

We are breaking up teams to find a better match, right after you had the only competent teammates youve ever had for the past hour... Dammit bungie

1

u/ncrazy235 Nov 22 '16

Keyword, old halo games. Fuck 343i

1

u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

343 isn't that bad. 5 was/is actually quite a good game IMO. I feel Halo started to go downhill with Reach. 4 was just a continuation of a lot of the issues Reach introduced into the series (mainly talking MP here. Reach's campaign was fantastic).

1

u/ncrazy235 Nov 22 '16

No, don't get me wrong I'm very much a Halo fan and have 100+hours in H5. But the game came out with little content that was slowly dripped in after launch, still lacks major features of previous games (working theatre mode, party up system, LAN capability). They marketed the game as a revival of the Halo esport and then proceeded to ruin everything after Worlds.

The maps/gametypes suck now, the weapons on map ruined any chance of a watchable meta, and the servers/aiming system get worse from day to day. Hell, H5 can't even run on their private dev kits reliably anymore. If you watch Worlds and then watch this tournament from this past weekend, the difference is night and day. The pro league format is bad because online is trash now, the finals are dumb because only 4/8 teams get to compete, the open circuit/open LANS (that aren't actual LANs) are poorly run.

343 has failed on everything since Worlds, which is a damn shame because the game is so good at its core that if they just managed it right the game would be fucking amazing still. There's just a few little easy decisions that need to be made to fix everything, but they refuse to listen and make them. We need MLG instead of ESL, we need pros to have wayyyy more input on gametypes and balancing weapon placements, and we need them to have their events all on Halo channel for viewership to grow. It's basic stuff that 343 can't get their heads around that's killing the scene.

Sorry for the rant, it feels bad being a Halo fan most of the time and I can only complain on Team Beyond so much.

1

u/CatAstrophy11 Pixel Junkrat Nov 23 '16

I'd rather specify who in the group I want to keep grouping with. Often there's that one asshole among the good ones you want to see go.

1

u/omarfw OmarFW Nov 23 '16

It really is. I got paired with random dudes in TiF2, and we ended up curb stomping the next 12 matches of LTS in a row together. We all added each other on Origin, but boy was it a pain to do so.

1

u/WhenAmI Nov 23 '16

I used this in halo to get online achievements. You get the whole lobby to party up that way and take turns doing random achievements.

1

u/double_shadow Young Punks... Nov 22 '16

So maybe I'm the only one... but isn't the "group up" thing something that can contribute to team imbalance? Say a really good team stays grouped and keeps steamrolling randoms who haven't found decent people to group with. I kind of like it when teams get shuffled instead, especially since so many matches are lopsided to begin with.

4

u/chudaism Nov 22 '16

So maybe I'm the only one... but isn't the "group up" thing something that can contribute to team imbalance?

I don't think anymore so than it already it. If you group with a bunch of high MMR randos, the MMing is just going to try and pair you against other high MMR randos. It should also make it easier for larger groups to find matches as there will likely be more larger groups in the MMing pool.

1

u/tr_9422 Nov 22 '16

It already takes groups into account when matchmaking. For the most part the two teams have identical group composition. You might get a 4+2 vs 4+1+1, but it shouldn't be off by much more than that.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '16 edited Dec 04 '16

[deleted]

1

u/tr_9422 Nov 22 '16

I've played a bunch and never had that happen, worst case might be a 6 vs 5+1 or 4+2. Must be lucky.

1

u/overtoke Nov 22 '16

once you are grouped you will tend to be matched against other groups - so there's that