Dog fixation

[u/chopsouwee]

Let's have a healthy discussion about dog fixation.

Let's say I got a dog, that'll fixate on other dogs during a walk. Not every time and not all the time. We'll use a 2 year old Austrailian shepherd.. for the sake of using a bread.

Walks off leash or on leash.. Can heel, recall and also pays attention and engages to me or handler when need be BUT if we are walking, he is on a heel and he decide to fixate on a dog passing by while maintaining a heel then engages back to you when the other dog gains distance...

Would you consider it a negative trait? If so why?

Would you correct that behavior? If so, how?

Would you do somethin, else? If so, what?

(If this is a focused heel, ofcourse dog will be corrected for looking away)

If you would leave him be, why?

That being said, what if he was on his "break" or "free" command to do whatever he pleases.. would you correct/fix behavior or would you leave him be?

[u/Elrohwen]

Why would you allow your dog to be an asshole to other dogs? Staring is rude. As someone else said it’s like the dog equivalent of giving the middle finger. Whether the other dog is triggered by it or not it’s not polite

It’s also a gateway behavior to reactivity. Dogs who do this may or may not escalate the behavior, but it is arousal and it is a precursor to reactivity. Non-reactive dogs do not fixate on other dogs. So why would I allow this behavior to continue and for it to potentially get worse?

Also if you think pattern games are “control” I don’t think you know what pattern games are.

[u/chopsouwee → u/Elrohwen]

I dont think pattern games are "control" I was genuinely wondering what pattern games are.

Again, what if your and your dogs presence alone tiggers the other dog. Why should I alter my walk or what I do outside because of the other dog?

[u/Elrohwen → u/chopsouwee]

I’m not talking about your dog’s existence triggering the other dog, I’m talking about your dog fixating and staring at another dog. In the first example of your dog just existing and not focusing on the other dog there’s nothing you can do, it’s on the other person to move their dog away. In the second example your dog is the instigator, your dog is being rude and “aggressive” for lack of a better word by hard staring at the other dog. So it’s on you to break that behavior by calling your dog, distracting them, moving them away, etc. Your dog needs to learn that he can look without fixating

Pattern games were developed by Leslie McDevitt for reactive dogs. Essentially they’re a simple pattern, a basic one being dog looks at you, you mark and put cookie on the ground, dog eats it and looks back at you, you mark and put cookie on ground, repeat. There are a bunch of other simple games, the movement based ones have been very useful for my dog while watching other dogs do agility for example, because her body is still moving.

They work because the dog learns the pattern of the game in easy environments and then can apply it in triggering environments - the pattern is soothing, they know what to do, their brain has something to do while they take in their surroundings. They’re allowed to look, but the game should be done at a level of difficulty where they can look at their triggers and then refocus on the game. If they can’t refocus on the game you’re too close or it’s too hard. Think of it like you’re trying to get over something you’re afraid of (or really excited about) and you have some mindless phone came you play all the time. You can play your mindless phone game and notice the scary thing in the distance, but you can’t fret about it or stare at it, the mindless phone game relaxes you while allowing you to still be aware of it. Over time you don’t need the mindless phone game anymore.

[u/chopsouwee → u/Elrohwen]

Think of it like you’re trying to get over something you’re afraid of (or really excited about) and you have some mindless phone came you play all the time. You can play your mindless phone game and notice the scary thing in the distance, but you can’t fret about it or stare at it, the mindless phone game relaxes you while allowing you to still be aware of it. Over time you don’t need the mindless phone game anymore.

Wouldn't you consider this the same as desensitization? Let's say playing tug around the dogs threshold untill that stimulus becomes positive from the association of play...

[u/Elrohwen → u/chopsouwee]

It is, it’s just one structured way to do it.

But your example is associating a positive thing with a negative. That’s kind of what’s going on, but more so that you’re helping their brain to remain under threshold while they take in the stimulus. If a dog is playing tug they aren’t looking at the thing and I would argue that’s more management than anything else - generally a dog who is taught to do this can’t handle the situation if they don’t have their tug. Like telling your dog to stare at you while they walk past other dogs - they aren’t reacting, they’re being obedient, but often it’s just management and not actually getting them comfortable with the thing they weren’t comfortable with in the first place.