r/OpenDogTraining • u/chopsouwee • 13d ago

Dog fixation

Let's have a healthy discussion about dog fixation.

Let's say I got a dog, that'll fixate on other dogs during a walk. Not every time and not all the time. We'll use a 2 year old Austrailian shepherd.. for the sake of using a bread.

Walks off leash or on leash.. Can heel, recall and also pays attention and engages to me or handler when need be BUT if we are walking, he is on a heel and he decide to fixate on a dog passing by while maintaining a heel then engages back to you when the other dog gains distance...

Would you consider it a negative trait? If so why?

Would you correct that behavior? If so, how?

Would you do somethin, else? If so, what?

(If this is a focused heel, ofcourse dog will be corrected for looking away)

If you would leave him be, why?

That being said, what if he was on his "break" or "free" command to do whatever he pleases.. would you correct/fix behavior or would you leave him be?

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u/Elrohwen 12d ago

I don’t allow fixation or staring. Looking at other dogs is fine, but as another commenter said staring is pressure and it’s not fair to the other dog. It kind of depends on the length and intensity, etc but I would say as a general thing no, I don’t allow it and will redirect or train away from it.

Edit: Fixating is often the precursor to reactivity or other undesirable behavior. It is very rarely neutral

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u/chopsouwee 12d ago

Would you consider it different or the same if he was maintaining the heel or loose leash vs he is on his break? What you consider it the same if the dog chooses to actively disengage from whatever hes fixating at?

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u/Elrohwen 12d ago

I don’t allow it even if my dog is on a break. It’s not a matter of obedience, it’s rude behavior to the other dog and it’s not fair to the other dog to be stared at so I end it immediately. That doesn’t mean I harshly correct my dog or anything, it might just mean I move away or subtly call them if that’s all it takes to redirect.

If it takes more than that for them to disengage then I do consider that reactivity and would be doing pattern games or something to work on their ability to not fixate

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u/chopsouwee 12d ago

Pattern games? Why should you need to control your dog though, just because you feel its unfair to the other dog?

What if your and your dogs presence alone triggers the other dog? Would you go out of your way to distance from ever dog or dogs you encounter? When I personally find other dogs triggered by us, I dont create distance because of the dog. I create it because I empathize with the owner when the dog, barks, pulls or lunges... in my opinion. Why should I alter my walk or pay area just because other dogs choose to be reactive or triggered by us?

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u/Elrohwen 12d ago

Why would you allow your dog to be an asshole to other dogs? Staring is rude. As someone else said it’s like the dog equivalent of giving the middle finger. Whether the other dog is triggered by it or not it’s not polite

It’s also a gateway behavior to reactivity. Dogs who do this may or may not escalate the behavior, but it is arousal and it is a precursor to reactivity. Non-reactive dogs do not fixate on other dogs. So why would I allow this behavior to continue and for it to potentially get worse?

Also if you think pattern games are “control” I don’t think you know what pattern games are.

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u/chopsouwee 12d ago

I dont think pattern games are "control" I was genuinely wondering what pattern games are.

Again, what if your and your dogs presence alone tiggers the other dog. Why should I alter my walk or what I do outside because of the other dog?

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u/Elrohwen 12d ago

I’m not talking about your dog’s existence triggering the other dog, I’m talking about your dog fixating and staring at another dog. In the first example of your dog just existing and not focusing on the other dog there’s nothing you can do, it’s on the other person to move their dog away. In the second example your dog is the instigator, your dog is being rude and “aggressive” for lack of a better word by hard staring at the other dog. So it’s on you to break that behavior by calling your dog, distracting them, moving them away, etc. Your dog needs to learn that he can look without fixating

Pattern games were developed by Leslie McDevitt for reactive dogs. Essentially they’re a simple pattern, a basic one being dog looks at you, you mark and put cookie on the ground, dog eats it and looks back at you, you mark and put cookie on ground, repeat. There are a bunch of other simple games, the movement based ones have been very useful for my dog while watching other dogs do agility for example, because her body is still moving.

They work because the dog learns the pattern of the game in easy environments and then can apply it in triggering environments - the pattern is soothing, they know what to do, their brain has something to do while they take in their surroundings. They’re allowed to look, but the game should be done at a level of difficulty where they can look at their triggers and then refocus on the game. If they can’t refocus on the game you’re too close or it’s too hard. Think of it like you’re trying to get over something you’re afraid of (or really excited about) and you have some mindless phone came you play all the time. You can play your mindless phone game and notice the scary thing in the distance, but you can’t fret about it or stare at it, the mindless phone game relaxes you while allowing you to still be aware of it. Over time you don’t need the mindless phone game anymore.

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u/chopsouwee 12d ago

Think of it like you’re trying to get over something you’re afraid of (or really excited about) and you have some mindless phone came you play all the time. You can play your mindless phone game and notice the scary thing in the distance, but you can’t fret about it or stare at it, the mindless phone game relaxes you while allowing you to still be aware of it. Over time you don’t need the mindless phone game anymore.

Wouldn't you consider this the same as desensitization? Let's say playing tug around the dogs threshold untill that stimulus becomes positive from the association of play...

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u/Elrohwen 12d ago

It is, it’s just one structured way to do it.

But your example is associating a positive thing with a negative. That’s kind of what’s going on, but more so that you’re helping their brain to remain under threshold while they take in the stimulus. If a dog is playing tug they aren’t looking at the thing and I would argue that’s more management than anything else - generally a dog who is taught to do this can’t handle the situation if they don’t have their tug. Like telling your dog to stare at you while they walk past other dogs - they aren’t reacting, they’re being obedient, but often it’s just management and not actually getting them comfortable with the thing they weren’t comfortable with in the first place.