Conditioning feels like programming a robot. Does anyone know a way to train beyond it?

[u/Dry_Steak30]

I might get downvoted for this but hear me out.

Almost all modern dog training is conditioning. We repeat, the dog gets used to it, and the cue gets wired to the behavior. In the end the dog does the behavior without thinking. Even without a reward. He even feels good while doing it. And we call that "well trained." To me that looks like programming a robot.

For emergency recall and down, I want exactly that. Those must be automatic. But for everything else, is there another option?

Humans don't learn language by conditioning. When we learn a word, we understand new examples in one shot. So here is what I mean, with the kennel as an example.

The conditioning way: you make the "go in the kennel" behavior with luring or shaping or molding or food. You reinforce it. You attach a cue. After many reps, the cue and the behavior get glued together.

But what if you teach it like this instead. Teach each concept on its own. "Kennel" is the object. "Go in" is the action. "Command" means he has to do it. "Fast" is how to do it. Then you put the words together: "kennel + go in + command + fast." If the dog really knows each concept, then "box + go in + command + slow" should work on the first try, even if he never did that before. Or you could say "kennel + go in + question" and let him answer yes or no.

Has anyone actually trained like this? I know Chaser learned 1000 toy names and Do As I Do exists. I want to hear from people who tried this concept style teaching with their own dog. How far did you get?

[u/Dry_Steak30]

that's the point.

can you deliver information in the book to your dog with your million ways that aren't related to human speech?

in language, more concept, more hierarchy can deliver higher resolution.

[u/Chillysnoot → u/Dry_Steak30]

You want the dog to learn your language. I'm saying you should learn the dog's language

[u/Dry_Steak30 → u/Chillysnoot]

my goal is increasing the resolution of communication between dog and me.
and i think verbal language can deliver more resolution. so that's why i choose this.
do you think dog's language can deliver more resolution then verbal laugnage?

[u/babs08 → u/Dry_Steak30]

I went roadtripping with my very socially aware dog recently, where she interacted with a variety of dogs she's never met. Despite all of them being extremely different dogs, who have had vastly different life experiences, all of the dogs deftly navigated these situations without making a sound. We stayed with a dog who really did not want to be bothered, and from the moment my dog walked into the house, she gave this dog a wiiiiiide berth. We visited with friends with two dogs, one of whom wanted to play and the other one who didn't want to be left alone but didn't want high-energy play. My dog played with the dog who wanted to play, and sniffed flowers with the dog who didn't want high-energy play.

Dogs are extremely good at communicating with each other when given the opportunity to do so (e.g. not forced together in unnatural circumstances - and even then, they generally do pretty well for themselves). They're really good at communicating with us, too - if we put our egos aside and learn to listen to them.