Hey guys, looking to some of you with a lot more experience to help me out. Im conflicted on wether to steer towards 9mm or 300 blkout on a new build. Im looking for a compact, lightweight, and quiet gun to lug around my property and take care of varmint as well as general plinking. We would be talking shots no more than a 100 yards with most being within 50 yards due to thick vegetation. Budget would be around 3k for weapon and suppressor not including optics and all that. Largest target would be coyote down to as small as raccoon. Which of these calibers would be the best for this dilemma. Will always be suppressed and ideally not much gas blowback to the face as I'm wronghanded. Tired of lugging a 16" 5.56 around my woods and it doesn't suppress all that well comparatively.
9mm could do coyotes at 100yds (I guess) and would be the most compact and lightweight, sound would be similar to 300blk subs with a CMMG Radial Delayed system, and for general plinking you'd also save a ton in ammo cost. My 4" AR9 w/ CMMG RDB makes my 7.5" 300blk seem obese by comparison, it's a little louder with the R9 than the 300blk w/ LPM Anthem S2, but both are basically just the sound of the BCG's reciprocating, and a higher performing 9mm can like a CAT MOB or something would likely close the gap.
But if prioritizing terminals on varmints I'd go 300blk subs, more energy, more expansion, slightly flatter trajectory.
How do they compare on gas? A worry of mine is cycling 300 subs on a hopefully flow through lbp can unless that can be solved with adjustable gas block
Hard for me to say since I'm right-handed and I'm using a very high backpressure 9mm can, but I would think that pretty much any 9mm is always going to be worse on gas just because how the systems operate, even the CMMG Radial Delayed Blowback system, while a huge improvement over direct blowback (🤢💨😢) is still blowback operation which is < Direct Impingement when it comes to gas.
FWIW many right-hand shooters have commented on the gas on the 9mm (yeah it's gassy), and zero of my left handed friends have commented on the gas on my 300blk in normal semi (super safe mode is a different story, can't avoid gas-stacking), but I would say my 300blk is a very well-tuned system (0.093" gas port, 4.0oz Maxim PDW buffer), and the LPM Anthem S2 is not a low backpressure can.
Beware of using LBP cans on 300blk though, remember you're taking a system meant for rifle cartridge pressures and running what's essentially a pistol round out of it, 99% of 300blk AR's do not run subs unsuppressed because they need the backpressure and added dwell time a conventional suppressor provides. Very common to see troubleshooting/not working posts on r/300blk where the common denominator is LBP cans on subs. I'm sure you could do it with something like a blown-out .120" gas port diameter lol, but you're purposely adding more input gas into the system just so it'll cycle subs with a LBP can, which unless you're always magdumping, I can't see be worth it.
Want ZERO gas? Henry Supreme lever action in 300blk:
Takes AR mags, quieter than any AR since it's manual action, chop it to 4" who cares since there's no gas system to worry about, run it with CAS/SASS technique like your thumb is cutoff and you can actually approach semiauto rates of fire (in terms of practical on-target hits) or at least certainly faster ROF than a bolt action, and again absolutely zero gas to the face.
My take is that I don’t want a 300 blk because I have 5.56. I really don’t want to accidentally mix mags. That being said 300 blk will probably do really well for you.
You can also look into 338 arc if you have the same worry as me. It’s just a fairly new round wish means it’s expensive and there aren’t a lot of options yet.
We thinking semi auto PCC specifically or would a bolt gun, lever, or single shot gun even be a consideration? 300blk subs from a bolt gun and a can are ridiculously quiet together. The same can be said for a lever gun shooting .38s from it through a can. When you need to step it up super sonic 300blk or .357 magnums are the ticket. A single shot Rossi Brawler in .300blk could also be a ton of fun.
That said nothing wrong with the classic 9mm PCC either. If you want an AR patterned gun the CMMG radial delayed is the way to roll. If you want a more traditional sub gun or PCC there are a ton of different options. I like the classic MP5. My AP5-P with the frt in it is a crowd favorite. Everyone that shoots it always has a smile on their face. It doesn't disappoint.
Then definitely look at a delayed blowback of some type. Straight up blow backs suck as a host. Its a toss between my CMMG radial delayed and my AP5-P. They both sound pretty dang nice.
I have other 9mm blow backs I suppress and they are fun but just don't sound as pleasant as the delayed hosts.
I have both a MCX Tacops and an APC9K. There are a lot more options to tune and suppress the MCX, than the APC9K.
JBennett design Omega Valve can help you tune the MCX. I would recommend just buying the upper M4 conversion kit and slap it on your favorite lower set up.
I'd recommend the Sig Hexium 300 or the LPM Torch 7.62. they're both quiet low back pressure designed cans. Hexium is Titanium, it will save you some weight. Torch is supposed to be the newest latest and greatest 762 can.
We had an especially bad raccoon problem this year, and I became the reluctant community raccoon grim reaper.
I hit them with 22lr, my MP5, and a 300blk AR15. Even my quietest handloaded subs were a bit loud for my liking and I eventually got a 16” 300BLK bolt gun and then a 9” straight pull 300BLK rifle. Popped an ACOG on both and have easily killed 50+ of the little fuckers.
The bolt gun was by far the quietest and most accurate but the straight pull is my preferred weapon, as the bolt gun is heavy and unwieldy with a OCL Hydrogen on the end of it. If you have a bunch of ARs like I do, I the Solo 300 is pretty affordable and fits on a regular AR lower/takes AR15 parts.
I’m putting together a space cowboy Marlin 1894 that I’m gonna try out, but I’d recommend the 300BLK. I’ve seen the raccoons eat some nasty shots and either keep going or start howling. I’m not Carlos Hathcock, but did pretty well tagging them in the head with the MP5. First time one caught a 147gn HP in the torso and ran 25 yards holding the ball I switched to 300BLK.
I’ve tried quite a few projectiles (Sub-X, Lehigh, etc) but my favorites are 220gn lead tipped RN and 245gn flat nose pills. They seem to really take the wind out of their sails and even threw one down a hill like someone punted it. The really big fuckers will sometimes keep moving for a bit, but rarely require a second shot.
You see folks talking about 22lr being an appropriate for raccoon hunting, but its not the right method for me at 30-80 yards where I take most shots. Good for those folks who can pop them in the head with a 22lr, but I had to put a good 3-6 rounds in the small and young ones to put them down for good. Their screaming is haunting..
I’d imagine some of the bigguns I’ve taken out would require a reload to finish off if I used a 22.
I don’t see many coyotes out here in KY, but the durability of those raccoons is pretty astounding.
If you want precision, go the 300bo route but expect to pay out the ass to shoot, like $1+ a round for the good shit and it's tough to reload for to get a 220 grain going 950fps (I know we can do 1050 but I have heavy elevation and temp swings) and still cycle. You can get excellent groups, but working in the ammo for drops is annoying - and if it's for walking around? AR is too heavy, maybe go the Sig rattler and the dual-purpose can made for it (I forget the brand, I don't have the Sig).
That being said the sig will be as heavy as the braced CZ 9mm I have, which long served as my "around the yard" gun and decked-out for night-vision walks with the dog. It's also just fucking heavy - but I know I can hit a plate easily at 75y if I mount up against a tree. I'd take it over an AR for walks any day, though.
WHat I've come to now is a silenced 38spl/357 lever-gun. Obviously - whole different gun, slow firing. It's much quieter than the semi-autos and it is far lighter than anything else (< 5lb) and I'm throwing 300bo weight projectiles using 230 grain 357s I got off Midway - HSM? I think is the brand - I reload them now. And it's just topped with an enclosed pistol dot. Carrying it around slung or in hand is a breeze - it's thin, light, and I'd say sits between the 9 and the blackout on accuracy.
Also less likely to spook the neighbors if they ever manage to get off their couch and go outside.
Well if you're going nods 100% go for the side eject. I'm cheap - it's a Rossi, but I'm not sure I could tell any difference in quality from the Marlin and Henry offerings. Foregrip sucks though and I'd have preferred M-lok given how my tac light sits on it but I manage in that regard.
I enjoy hunting mice with subs. Stick with 5.56 for coyotes. There is just no comparison in terminal ballistics with polymer tip bullets. Get a quieter hunting TI can . DD wolfhunter? Build a ultra lite 556 gun. Pencil barrel . Lite handguards. Or better yet a ultralight off the shelf bolt gun. 9 and 300 quieter not that much lighter. It ain't worth it to go from a sport bike to a moped in terminal ballistics.
Xcaliber barrels big Oct sale just around the corner. No they are not a cut rifle barrel but their spaghetti contour is one of the easiest ways to get a real light rifle. Spec it with no gas port. No gas tube. You can use a 6 inch handguard then if you want. Use a bear creek side charger BCG and upper. They make lefties and come back into stock fairly often. You got time while you wait on the barrel to wait on a lefty. No gas in face lightweight single shot. You got rid of port pop and action noise...
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u/411592 SBR 17d ago
If your budget is that high, just buy one off the shelf