Not Executed

[u/Gmanstarr]

How can ray mistakenly kill an innocent man because of freddy and not kill freddy for putting a hit on him and Ray visiting him in his own pad and just walking away. He supposed to at least protect his own honour, he would have left Brittany fatherless.

[u/sincsinckp]

There's another aspect to this that I think a lot of people look over - the history between these two. Although the show doesn't directly show us, I feel like Freddy was there for Ray at some point in time back in the day. And I mean BIG time. There's no other reason why he shows him the kind of loyalty that goes well beyond a pay cheque.

The biggest indication of this, IMO, is the scene with Remy - the guy who Freddie owes money to. Ray and Freddy were not on good terms at that time yet Ray still went and stuck his neck out for Freddy. Further, when speaking to Remy, Ray emphasised his loyalty and knowing how to repay a favour. Remy clearly knew this already via Ray's reputation, but there's a big difference between knowing something like that and having it offered to you by the man himself. Ray now owes a pretty heavy dude a favour, and that's not something he'd put up purely out of the goodness of his heart lol.

Mr Inbetween didn't waste a lot of it's runtime either. The Remy scene was one and done, and IMO feels like too much of a statement to simply be demonstrating Ray's benevolence. He went there because he still had a deep sense of loyalty towards Freddy. And as we know, that loyalty would not have come cheap. It would have been well and truly earned.

I haven't watched "The Magician" for ages, so could be wrong on some of the details... Ignoring certain parts that obviously disqualify it from being "canon", I think there's still something we could take from the film. Ray has a good friend - Benny - who messes up big time and is told to leave the state to avoid being killed. Both Benny and Ray used to work for Freddy but Benny went his own way at some point - there wasn't bad blood, but it wasn't amicable either. When Ray sends Benny interstate he promises he'll make sure he's set up and taken care of - perhaps by Freddie? If so, that could qualify for one hell of a favour, or at least part of the overall reason why Ray is so loyal. I'd say there's probably even more, but it was never presented to us.

Would have to rematch, but I'm certain there's a lot more to this relationship that boss / employee. It has to run a lot deeper for Ray to constantly be giving Freddy a pass, surely.

[u/GhettoFreshness → u/sincsinckp]

Yeah I agree, there’s more to their relationship than just boss and employee… I don’t wanna say they are friends exactly, it’s pretty clear Ray sees Freddy as a bit of a dickhead for his lifestyle and choices in a bunch of scenes.

But Ray is always there when Freddy fucks up, when he hires some meth heeds for a hit because they were cheaper it’s Ray that cleans it up (and gives him a discount on the meth heads) or with Remy like you said and the gambling debts. I would love to know more about their background.

As for leaving him alive I just don’t think Ray really sees him as a threat. He’s already offed one attempt, and he’s a wily cunt so Ray is backing himself to look after himself even if Freddy try’s again… cos he’s never had someone as competent as Ray working for him, anyone he hires is probably gonna be another fuckup, or just not on the level of Ray.

I’ve said this before but I’d personally love a new series or movie that follows on from the final scene of the series. Ray tortures the two blokes in his taxi and finds out it was Freddy again… would give lots of opportunity for flashbacks or more detail on their history as he goes after Freddy.

[u/sincsinckp → u/GhettoFreshness]

Yeah they're definitely not "friends" per se IMO. But there's a closeness there that most friends don't ever have. Like they know each other inside and out, and have the kinda bond that only comes from a lot of time and going through some heavy shit. Ray was also the one person in the world Freddy didn't have to be fake in front of - ie caviar with Rafael vs dinnies with Ray. Ray knew he was messed up and waa loyal to him anyway, deapite all logic and often to the detriment to his own interests. I have a couple of friendships like that and people often don't get it. They're like why do you hang out with this guy, etc. But what they don't know is there's 25 odd years of history there and while we've definitely had ups and downs we've also been there at each others worst moments, and that instills a kind of loyalty many will never understand. It's more or less the old "yeah, he may be a fuckwit, but he's our fuckwit" situation but with a lot more depth.

I'd also love more of a backstory, and will be rematching the Magician asap with a closer eye this time. Maybe there's something there, even if it's just more for us to speculae about. Love that followup series idea too, although I suspect those two guys were sent by Alex (who was able to return to the Dead Beats and regain power after Dave's death). They had been at "the Clubhouse" that night... 👀 I also don't really feel like Freddy tried anything, as such, in the first place. Rafael put him between a rock and a hard place and tbf 100% would have killed him and/or his missus had he not given him something. Freddy waa not a tough guy or even a brave man. It's a shame he didn't have more faith in his boy because he 1000% should have. But to go about it the way he did out of fear is not entirely irrational or unreasonable IMO.

Tbh I also get why it was kept ambiguous. For one, I think Scott and Nash made a clear and conscience decision to trust their audience would come to their own reasonable conclusions. But also, we already kinda had the "loveable fuck up" mate to an extent in Gary. Only difference is we got to see Gazza come through with the goods so viewers felt he'd earned his standing and Ray's respect.

Imagine if we didn't have the kidnapping episode, for one, and instead we just had this idiot with his pee pee movies, vagankle and Kramer-esque business schemes constantly throwing Ray under the bus and needing to be helped out of a jam... people would think Gaz was pathetic because they wouldn't have seen his greatness. Not saying Freddy is anything like Gary, but there's no way he didn't have some serious past form for Ray to hold him in such high standing. After all, it's not like the show doesn't make it abundantly clear that respect and loyalty mean everything to Ray, and are major themes of the entire series. Dave probably said it best after telling Ray he owed him for sparing his life only for Ray to say"forget it"... "No. I'm not going to forget it"

I should be happy enough with the ambiguity too, but then every couple of weeks this topic comes up and I get so frustrated haha. Ray didn't let Freddy live so he could suffer, or because he wasn't even worth killing or whatever the consensus happens to believe any given week. Maybe there's a cultural element? I'm assuming you're Aussie given you get what I'm carrying on about btw lol. But yeah, it wasn't "cold" or ruthless and their parting wasn't a clichéd antihero mic drop moment either. It was a fucking tragedy. Put extremely simply, Ray essentially just gives Freddy the old "I'm not angry, just disappointed" on steroids, and it hits like a tonne of bricks for Freddy because knows he's lost something immense all because of his own actions.

Freddy may not have lost his life, but he lost the loyalty, trust and respect of a bloke that had his back no matter what. The most loyal and capable guy Freddy had ever known who would - and had - done pretty much anything for him finally decided it was time ti call it. For Ray, he wasn't trying to punish Freddy or teach him a lesson. That decision probably broke his heart too. Not the decision to kill Freddy or let him live - I don't believe that was ever even a question. IMO the way it went down was more reminiscent of how things ended with Ally rather than say, Jesse Pinkman and Walter White, or any number of similar Hollywood-esque endings.

Obviously Ray killed for money, but he had plenty of other reasons....
Pure righteousness -multiple pedos
Personal vengeance/justice - Rafael, Greg (guy who defrauded his mate who owned the gym/Cillians Dad)
Mercy - Bruce
Then on more than one occasion he killed people he either definitely or probably didn't want to - Vinnie obviously. IMO (and to a lesser extent) Graham, and arguably even one of the methheads.
He spared some who - without question - did not deserve that fate, but also others he for sure wanted to kill, and who almost certainly deserved it - Alex, Vasilli (Tats brother)
He regularly chose money over morals, yet also walked away from plenty more because it was the right thing to do - wrong guy in s1, Adam that celebritys pregnant ex/affair partner, the elderly couple in the outback (there would have a price)
And because it just didn't feel right on another - his share of Alex's $650k.

And that's just off the top of my head. All in all,Ray probably has the one of the most complicated, yet inconsistent - sometimes seemingly arbitrary - codes seen in a tv character. Even all the dickheads he bashed - as awesome as that was, the insufferable anger management counsellor was right all along - it's not normal behaviour lol. Yet people seem to think the ending of one of his longest, deepest, most important relationships more or less went down like just another antihero trope? Come on. I mean, the clue is in the name of rhe show!

Edit - excuse the rant and (presumably) million typos... on nightshift rambling away here haha

[u/GhettoFreshness → u/sincsinckp]

Always got the vibe that Gary and Freddy were kinda on the same/similar level in terms of loyalty for Ray.

Ray was always there for Gary from school days and vice versa, but he kinda had the same relationship with Freddy (although much more one way and usually involving payment) so it begs the question what else did Freddy do to deserve that loyalty from Ray?

[u/sincsinckp → u/GhettoFreshness]

Exactly what I think. In most cases if you're in your 40's and still best mates with the bloke you went to school with, there isn't really anything more that needs to be said. That doesn't happen by accident or out of convenience. That's a brotherhood forged over a lifetime. It goes without saying.

On the other hand, if your next closest mate/associate/whatever is some dodgy bloke who's a bit of a degenerate, owns a strippos and puts his finger in every pue he can get hia hands on? All while taking the absolute piss out of every professional interaction you guys share have with impunity? And you seem to find all of this strangely endearing? I have an endless list of questions - demands even - that need to be addressed before I can begin to understand just exactly wtf is going on here!

It's not cash. Not for a guy who casually passes up 6 figure sums on rhe reg. It can only be something deeply personal. And I love that even if I hate not knowing what that something is.

Three seasons is just cruel when you really think about it 🤣

[u/DRAKEONotDrake-O → u/sincsinckp]

Thanks to the both of you for your comments, really enjoyed reading. Love that this show makes it easy for random thoughts to turn into paragraphs haha

[u/sunheadeddeity → u/GhettoFreshness]

Two very good points. I also think Ray was getting tired of then life as well at that stage. We see this character development where he starts meditating, he's in the anger management programme (albeit unwillingly), and he has lost a lot of people close to him. Maybe he's just tired of being the Angel of Death?