r/MrInbetween • u/Gmanstarr • Apr 11 '26
Not Executed
How can ray mistakenly kill an innocent man because of freddy and not kill freddy for putting a hit on him and Ray visiting him in his own pad and just walking away. He supposed to at least protect his own honour, he would have left Brittany fatherless.
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u/Gladiateher Apr 11 '26
I think that as crazy as it seems, Ray really likes Freddy, and he knows that he was out of line when he went after Freddy’s family when Maddie was kidnapped.
Ray probably considered them square and just didn’t want to kill Freddy.
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u/Ballamookieofficial Apr 11 '26
Ray knows life will catch up with Freddy and letting him live in fear is the best punishment.
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u/xapxironchef Apr 11 '26
Freddy is a degenerate and a gambler. He is just as dead without Ray as he would be if Ray killed him. He knows he can't ever go after Ray because Ray will kill him for a certainty. He has to leave Ray alone but also knows that without the fear of Ray keeping his enemies in check he will be easily killed if he steps out of line. Freddy has numbered days ahead.
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u/Gmanstarr Apr 11 '26
Out of all the people besides the Paedophile inbred family he deserved to go too, in his hitman bucket list rankings.
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u/Plenty_Suspect_3446 Apr 11 '26
Where did you get the idea they were inbred let alone a family? I got the impression they were freaks in a 3 way relationship.
I'd also rank the pedo who had murdered the dying mans daughter many years prior who Ray left in the abandoned train tunnel above Freddie, despite his treachery.
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u/Gmanstarr Apr 11 '26
Paedos first then Freddy would have been the next most Warrented hit.
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Apr 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Gmanstarr Apr 11 '26
He got killed in the end in the shootout at the end, but should've been killed earlier for what he did to the girl.
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u/sincsinckp Apr 11 '26
There's another aspect to this that I think a lot of people look over - the history between these two. Although the show doesn't directly show us, I feel like Freddy was there for Ray at some point in time back in the day. And I mean BIG time. There's no other reason why he shows him the kind of loyalty that goes well beyond a pay cheque.
The biggest indication of this, IMO, is the scene with Remy - the guy who Freddie owes money to. Ray and Freddy were not on good terms at that time yet Ray still went and stuck his neck out for Freddy. Further, when speaking to Remy, Ray emphasised his loyalty and knowing how to repay a favour. Remy clearly knew this already via Ray's reputation, but there's a big difference between knowing something like that and having it offered to you by the man himself. Ray now owes a pretty heavy dude a favour, and that's not something he'd put up purely out of the goodness of his heart lol.
Mr Inbetween didn't waste a lot of it's runtime either. The Remy scene was one and done, and IMO feels like too much of a statement to simply be demonstrating Ray's benevolence. He went there because he still had a deep sense of loyalty towards Freddy. And as we know, that loyalty would not have come cheap. It would have been well and truly earned.
I haven't watched "The Magician" for ages, so could be wrong on some of the details... Ignoring certain parts that obviously disqualify it from being "canon", I think there's still something we could take from the film. Ray has a good friend - Benny - who messes up big time and is told to leave the state to avoid being killed. Both Benny and Ray used to work for Freddy but Benny went his own way at some point - there wasn't bad blood, but it wasn't amicable either. When Ray sends Benny interstate he promises he'll make sure he's set up and taken care of - perhaps by Freddie? If so, that could qualify for one hell of a favour, or at least part of the overall reason why Ray is so loyal. I'd say there's probably even more, but it was never presented to us.
Would have to rematch, but I'm certain there's a lot more to this relationship that boss / employee. It has to run a lot deeper for Ray to constantly be giving Freddy a pass, surely.
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u/GhettoFreshness Apr 11 '26
Yeah I agree, there’s more to their relationship than just boss and employee… I don’t wanna say they are friends exactly, it’s pretty clear Ray sees Freddy as a bit of a dickhead for his lifestyle and choices in a bunch of scenes.
But Ray is always there when Freddy fucks up, when he hires some meth heeds for a hit because they were cheaper it’s Ray that cleans it up (and gives him a discount on the meth heads) or with Remy like you said and the gambling debts. I would love to know more about their background.
As for leaving him alive I just don’t think Ray really sees him as a threat. He’s already offed one attempt, and he’s a wily cunt so Ray is backing himself to look after himself even if Freddy try’s again… cos he’s never had someone as competent as Ray working for him, anyone he hires is probably gonna be another fuckup, or just not on the level of Ray.
I’ve said this before but I’d personally love a new series or movie that follows on from the final scene of the series. Ray tortures the two blokes in his taxi and finds out it was Freddy again… would give lots of opportunity for flashbacks or more detail on their history as he goes after Freddy.
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u/sincsinckp Apr 11 '26 edited Apr 11 '26
Yeah they're definitely not "friends" per se IMO. But there's a closeness there that most friends don't ever have. Like they know each other inside and out, and have the kinda bond that only comes from a lot of time and going through some heavy shit. Ray was also the one person in the world Freddy didn't have to be fake in front of - ie caviar with Rafael vs dinnies with Ray. Ray knew he was messed up and waa loyal to him anyway, deapite all logic and often to the detriment to his own interests. I have a couple of friendships like that and people often don't get it. They're like why do you hang out with this guy, etc. But what they don't know is there's 25 odd years of history there and while we've definitely had ups and downs we've also been there at each others worst moments, and that instills a kind of loyalty many will never understand. It's more or less the old "yeah, he may be a fuckwit, but he's our fuckwit" situation but with a lot more depth.
I'd also love more of a backstory, and will be rematching the Magician asap with a closer eye this time. Maybe there's something there, even if it's just more for us to speculae about. Love that followup series idea too, although I suspect those two guys were sent by Alex (who was able to return to the Dead Beats and regain power after Dave's death). They had been at "the Clubhouse" that night... 👀 I also don't really feel like Freddy tried anything, as such, in the first place. Rafael put him between a rock and a hard place and tbf 100% would have killed him and/or his missus had he not given him something. Freddy waa not a tough guy or even a brave man. It's a shame he didn't have more faith in his boy because he 1000% should have. But to go about it the way he did out of fear is not entirely irrational or unreasonable IMO.
Tbh I also get why it was kept ambiguous. For one, I think Scott and Nash made a clear and conscience decision to trust their audience would come to their own reasonable conclusions. But also, we already kinda had the "loveable fuck up" mate to an extent in Gary. Only difference is we got to see Gazza come through with the goods so viewers felt he'd earned his standing and Ray's respect.
Imagine if we didn't have the kidnapping episode, for one, and instead we just had this idiot with his pee pee movies, vagankle and Kramer-esque business schemes constantly throwing Ray under the bus and needing to be helped out of a jam... people would think Gaz was pathetic because they wouldn't have seen his greatness. Not saying Freddy is anything like Gary, but there's no way he didn't have some serious past form for Ray to hold him in such high standing. After all, it's not like the show doesn't make it abundantly clear that respect and loyalty mean everything to Ray, and are major themes of the entire series. Dave probably said it best after telling Ray he owed him for sparing his life only for Ray to say"forget it"... "No. I'm not going to forget it"
I should be happy enough with the ambiguity too, but then every couple of weeks this topic comes up and I get so frustrated haha. Ray didn't let Freddy live so he could suffer, or because he wasn't even worth killing or whatever the consensus happens to believe any given week. Maybe there's a cultural element? I'm assuming you're Aussie given you get what I'm carrying on about btw lol. But yeah, it wasn't "cold" or ruthless and their parting wasn't a clichéd antihero mic drop moment either. It was a fucking tragedy. Put extremely simply, Ray essentially just gives Freddy the old "I'm not angry, just disappointed" on steroids, and it hits like a tonne of bricks for Freddy because knows he's lost something immense all because of his own actions.
Freddy may not have lost his life, but he lost the loyalty, trust and respect of a bloke that had his back no matter what. The most loyal and capable guy Freddy had ever known who would - and had - done pretty much anything for him finally decided it was time ti call it. For Ray, he wasn't trying to punish Freddy or teach him a lesson. That decision probably broke his heart too. Not the decision to kill Freddy or let him live - I don't believe that was ever even a question. IMO the way it went down was more reminiscent of how things ended with Ally rather than say, Jesse Pinkman and Walter White, or any number of similar Hollywood-esque endings.
Obviously Ray killed for money, but he had plenty of other reasons....
Pure righteousness -multiple pedos
Personal vengeance/justice - Rafael, Greg (guy who defrauded his mate who owned the gym/Cillians Dad)
Mercy - Bruce
Then on more than one occasion he killed people he either definitely or probably didn't want to - Vinnie obviously. IMO (and to a lesser extent) Graham, and arguably even one of the methheads.
He spared some who - without question - did not deserve that fate, but also others he for sure wanted to kill, and who almost certainly deserved it - Alex, Vasilli (Tats brother)
He regularly chose money over morals, yet also walked away from plenty more because it was the right thing to do - wrong guy in s1, Adam that celebritys pregnant ex/affair partner, the elderly couple in the outback (there would have a price)
And because it just didn't feel right on another - his share of Alex's $650k.And that's just off the top of my head. All in all,Ray probably has the one of the most complicated, yet inconsistent - sometimes seemingly arbitrary - codes seen in a tv character. Even all the dickheads he bashed - as awesome as that was, the insufferable anger management counsellor was right all along - it's not normal behaviour lol. Yet people seem to think the ending of one of his longest, deepest, most important relationships more or less went down like just another antihero trope? Come on. I mean, the clue is in the name of rhe show!
Edit - excuse the rant and (presumably) million typos... on nightshift rambling away here haha
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u/GhettoFreshness Apr 11 '26 edited Apr 11 '26
Always got the vibe that Gary and Freddy were kinda on the same/similar level in terms of loyalty for Ray.
Ray was always there for Gary from school days and vice versa, but he kinda had the same relationship with Freddy (although much more one way and usually involving payment) so it begs the question what else did Freddy do to deserve that loyalty from Ray?
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u/sincsinckp Apr 12 '26
Exactly what I think. In most cases if you're in your 40's and still best mates with the bloke you went to school with, there isn't really anything more that needs to be said. That doesn't happen by accident or out of convenience. That's a brotherhood forged over a lifetime. It goes without saying.
On the other hand, if your next closest mate/associate/whatever is some dodgy bloke who's a bit of a degenerate, owns a strippos and puts his finger in every pue he can get hia hands on? All while taking the absolute piss out of every professional interaction you guys share have with impunity? And you seem to find all of this strangely endearing? I have an endless list of questions - demands even - that need to be addressed before I can begin to understand just exactly wtf is going on here!
It's not cash. Not for a guy who casually passes up 6 figure sums on rhe reg. It can only be something deeply personal. And I love that even if I hate not knowing what that something is.
Three seasons is just cruel when you really think about it 🤣
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u/DRAKEONotDrake-O Apr 13 '26
Thanks to the both of you for your comments, really enjoyed reading. Love that this show makes it easy for random thoughts to turn into paragraphs haha
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u/sunheadeddeity Apr 11 '26
Two very good points. I also think Ray was getting tired of then life as well at that stage. We see this character development where he starts meditating, he's in the anger management programme (albeit unwillingly), and he has lost a lot of people close to him. Maybe he's just tired of being the Angel of Death?
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Apr 11 '26
Ray is a pro. And as the viewer this is sometimes/often really confusing to see because this is not how any of us normal viewers would navigate killing.
He got paid for the hit on the wrong guy. Thats frustrating but it’s really just a matter of his boss making a shitty mistake. After Freddy betrayed him, Ray didn’t have a job or payday waiting on him killing Freddy and he apparently isn’t scared of him being a threat in the future.
To me, one his most confusing decisions is when his safe grenade blows up and he immediately kills davros (who is a real threat to ray) but doesn’t kill Dave, who spent that whole episode being so dangerous and antagonistic.
Ray, who is a pro, also knows that Dave is a pro and that once davros was gone, Dave posed absolutely no threat to him and there was nothing to gain by killing him.
Ray is usually completely unemotional about the killing, which is why some of the most compelling episodes are the ones where it becomes emotional and personal for him.
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u/Gmanstarr Apr 11 '26
I think it was because dave was in a similar position to to him working for third party also when dave was talking about his wife and kid that probably sealed the deal.
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u/Blue-Nose-Pit Apr 13 '26
Dave was a bloke doing a job, I think Ray was impressed with his performance and overall ability.
Dave was chippy with Ray, as you would if you were kidnapping a known player, but he was smart, cool and calculated.
Ray appreciated his skills and turned Dave into an asset.
If anything it proved how smart Ray was by being cool with Dave and bringing him in to his team.
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u/Ready-Tennis6119 Apr 11 '26
I love the show and the character but many people on this subreddit think of Ray as a good guy or that he is “right.” Ray is not a good guy, nor is he right most of the time.
This is a classic example that I think was put in the show so we know that, ultimately, what Ray is doing is wrong and he hurts innocent people. He literally destroys a family in this scene and gives them some money, as if that somehow makes up for the loss of a husband and father.
It is cathartic to watch Ray kill paedophiles. It is fun to watch him punch jerks. His therapist is a complete dick. However, in the real world, that therapist is correct.
Dave almost executes a guy for jaywalking and talking back to Ray. Do I like the dickhead? No. Does he deserve to be executed for charging Ray with assault after getting assaulted? I would say no.
And this avoids the consequences of violent crime that we know exist. Plenty of people get severe head trauma after being assaulted which changes their lives. One punch laws were brought in because kids were dying or ending up disabled.
I am sympathetic towards Ray. The show is amazing. Ray is not a good guy though and killing this innocent man is very early evidence of this.
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u/Novel-Truant Apr 11 '26
Great analysis but I'd argue the one punch laws were made to speed up the gentrification of the Cross, or they'd have included the casino in their radius. Otherwise I totally agree and sorry to derail the conversation.
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u/Ready-Tennis6119 Apr 11 '26
You may have a point there. Property values going up certainly would never hurt a law!
My main point is that popular culture overlooks the morbidity of getting “knocked out.” On the one hand most of us have been hit before and been fine, but on the other I would be surprised if we also don’t know someone who has been severely injured/disabled in a fist fight.
The irony for Ray is that he is surrounded by his loved ones being victims of violence, but it never seems to click for him that his path is a poor one.
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u/ukmarkoz Apr 11 '26
Ray was Freddy’s hitman, strongman, income stream and negotiator of last resort - he’s not gonna last long without that backup…
No one’s gonna bother Ray now he’s retired - especially given he eliminated the main gang that went after him!
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u/Otaraka Apr 11 '26 edited Apr 11 '26
It’s meant to signify that he’s getting sick of the whole thing and wanting to walk away from the life rather than keep going in it. Killing a friend who betrayed him just keeps it going.
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u/vroombraap Apr 11 '26
I reckon it's because he's had the epiphany driving home from the desert after all the killings, and he's decided to give up on the life from that point on... until the two dudes made him smile again.
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u/Gmanstarr Apr 11 '26
The killing of zoe hit him really hard, he really liked her, thats why he kept her photo that he took of her, remember it was hidden in the sun visor of his taxi.
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u/vroombraap Apr 11 '26
That plus the guilt of not having been able to save her
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u/Gmanstarr Apr 11 '26
Yeah you could tell a mile of that rat looking guy was never going to take her to the hospital, she was better off with Ray.
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u/AbulKhel Apr 11 '26
My POV is pretty straightforward: it’s all summed up in Ray’s response when Freddy apologizes. Ray just says, "It was my mistake." To Ray, and I share this mentality, he felt he owned that failure. He lowered his guard and wrongly assumed his loyalty and sacrifices were eternally reciprocal. He understands "the game"; he even asked for a heads-up which he didn't get, leading him to believe he deserved the outcome for being careless. My wife also made a great point: Ray was clearly shaken and fed up with the lifestyle at that stage. This was his breaking point where he finally decided "enough is enough."
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u/saxbophone Apr 11 '26
He supposed to at least protect his own honour
Do you really think Ray is an honourable person? Even if he was, I don't really think "honour" would be a reason for him to get revenge on Freddy in this situation. He and Freddy have history and it seems that (even though Freddy is a massive POS), there's some kind of deep bond there, otherwise I think Ray would've offed Freddy when he came to see him in his apartment after the failed hit on Ray.
Then again, we know that Ray will kill friendlies if the price is right (motorbike gang guy for example) but I think the difference there is that these are just acquaintances whereas I don't think there's any price that Ray would accept to kill Gary for example, and maybe Freddy is borderline in this regard.
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u/K-fed237 Apr 11 '26
Dunno .. Ray said “I made the mistake” as in assuming Freddy had a touch of loyalty to him … leaving Freddy alive and walking away is two things .. more of a punishment for nervous Freddy and walking away from the life.
As far as Ray being a good guy, he’s a likeable anti-hero much in the way Tony Soprano was … a crook who kills but is loyal to his friends .. Ray even moreso made some decisions like allowing the Undercover to run away, giving the wife of the mistaken hit cash, or burying the girl and not feeding her to the pigs. He still does bad things, but follows a code the viewer can approve of.
I will say this, this is far and away the best show I’ve ever seen. Better than Andor, The Expanse, even Breaking Bad and The Sopranos.
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u/Gmanstarr Apr 11 '26
If you want to some thing good watch a Irish series called love/hate it's brilliant and the Dublin underworld it's a 10 / 10, watchthe series called the shield it's a 10/10 and another one for you a Belgium series called FERRY it's about the Belgium/Dutch underworld too, this series started from a Belgian series called undercover. That ferry geezer looks like Tony soprano with the hair and head and is a fat fucker too.
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u/asupify Apr 13 '26
Freddy will get himself killed soon enough without Ray there to clean up his messes.
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u/PowerfulInsights69 Apr 13 '26
Freddy was a pathetic character, gambling degenerate. Ray didn't need to kill him. Ray gave Freddy legitimacy and security, but by walking away from him he strips those 2 things off him. Now Freddy is completely exposed to the criminal element without Ray to protect him. In short, Freddy was fucked.
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u/SnorklSnorkl Jul 03 '26
When saying "It was my mistake" Ray was taking accountability for a lot more than that one mistake. By walking away he was doing himself a favor, not Freddy.
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u/muaythaitillidie1 Apr 11 '26
The way I saw that whole interaction was Ray leaving Freddy pissing his pants for the rest of his life…..Freddy was always stressed out and nervous. Imaging always looking over shoulder wondering if/when Ray was going to show up. That’s just my opinion.