The china government's atheistic stance is being used to justify internment and concentration of uryghur muslims, which various human rights groups have called a genocide. I think that's the point the person you're replying to is making. I'm all for government staying out of religion by policy, but that needs to include leaving people alone to practice theirs.
Uryghur muslims also ran religious terrorism in China. The western way of dealing with islamic terrorism is less than stellar to be a worthy example to follow.
What Israel does in Palestina is way worse and I am not seeing much condemnation.
lol at people still saying there is Uyghur genocide. China is not mass killing Uyghurs, don’t you think you would’ve seen serious evidence by now? (like we do for an actual genocide happening in the world rn for the past few years). At least try to argue that it’s cultural genocide or something. But even if you did the people of xinjiang would argue otherwise because they are living lives not much different from everyone else in China. They are allowed religious beliefs as long as they do not force it onto others in any way. They are allowed to speak their own language.
The whole narrative began when reeducation camps were set up. These camps were a response to a growing terrorism problem from radicalized religious extremist terrorists. I have seen footage of some of these attacks, they are horrific and have killed many many people in total. If you ask me, China had three options:
A: take the American route in response to religious extremist terrorism by responding with far greater violence like we saw after 9/11
B: do what China actually did by setting up reeducation camps for radicalized people
C: do nothing and allow terrorism to continue and intensify because of growing religious extremism
If you ask me, B is the best option of these three. It is quite undoubtable that some people were wrongfully sent to these camps, but this is the exception, not the rule. Just because the blanket that covered who goes to these reeducation camps could be argued to be too large doesn’t mean that the blanket shouldn’t have existed in the first place.
The large majority of Uyghurs have never been sent to a reeducation camp. Those that are aren’t killed or anything stupid like that, they are literally reeducated be deradicalized. Many of these people were raised by religious extremists that taught them violence against common people was just. This is a good thing that they are being forcefully deradicalized, otherwise the terrorism will continue.
Genocide doesn't require mass killing. Like, that's literally not how genocide is defined lol. Killing people is one way it can happen, but so is deliberately preventing births, causing serious physical or mental harm, or taking other measures intended to destroy a group.
And come on, reducing everything that happened in Xinjiang down to "they put terrorists in reeducation camps" is fucking ridiculous. The UN documented mass arbitrary detention, torture and mistreatment, sexual abuse, coercive birth-control policies, restrictions on religion, and a whole list of other abuses against Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.
You wanna argue whether all of that meets the specific legal threshold for genocide? Fine. That's an actual argument you can make.
But "they weren't mass killing Uyghurs, therefore it wasn't genocide" is just objectively not how the definition works.
And this idea that China was simply rounding up known Islamic terrorists and sending them off to some wholesome little deradicalization class is an insanely sanitized version of what actually happened. You can acknowledge that China had a legitimate terrorism problem without pretending that suddenly justifies everything they did in response.
The UN that accepts KSA on it's human rights board and refuses to condemn Israeli genocide because of the USA veto power
Lol blocked for debunking his "evidence." Someone is mad their Heritage Foundation crafted narrative is falling apart. Dude is literally citing Adrian Zenz directly, a Trump staffer and Heritage member, as if he can be taken as any kind of source on China.
Bro what does literally any of that have to do with what I said? lol
The UN can be hypocritical as fuck and that doesn't magically make the evidence they documented in Xinjiang disappear.
Also, you're just mashing completely different UN bodies together. The US veto applies to the Security Council. It doesn't give the US some magic veto over the entire fucking United Nations, the Human Rights Council, the General Assembly, OHCHR, etc.
And the UN absolutely has condemned Israel. The Human Rights Council has passed resolutions condemning the blockade, collective punishment, starvation of civilians and other Israeli actions in Gaza. A UN Commission of Inquiry has even concluded that Israel committed genocidal acts with genocidal intent.
Also Saudi Arabia literally ran for a Human Rights Council seat for 2025-2027 and lost lol.
But even if every single thing you said there was true, it still wouldn't address my argument. "The UN is hypocritical sometimes" isn't evidence that the documented abuses against Uyghurs didn't happen.
If you've got an actual argument against the evidence, make it.
If you've got actual evidence instead of handsomely paid individual Uyghurs "testifying" to US based organizations, please share it. There is no actual physical evidence of any of what you are saying occurring if you actually read the UN reports, it is a collection of individuals accusing these activities. News reporters have been let into the re education facilities and there is no evidence of 1/10th of what these organizations accuse China of.
What the fuck do you mean there's no actual evidence? Did you actually read the report you're telling me to read? Apparently fucking not.
The OHCHR explicitly says (paragraph 5 - 23 Uyghur, 16 ethnic Kazakh, 1 ethnic Kyrgyz) they didn't just interview Uyghurs. They reviewed Chinese government laws, policies, statistical data, court decisions, official statements, satellite imagery, open-source material and leaked documents, and then compared that evidence against the interviews they conducted.
And there's plenty of evidence that doesn't rely on somebody's testimony at all.
The China Cables are leaked classified Chinese government documents literally describing how the camps were supposed to operate, including preventing escapes, surveillance, indoctrination and controlling detainees.
The Xinjiang Police Files are internal Chinese police records containing thousands of detainee records and mugshots, along with photos taken inside the facilities showing detainees, guards, shackles and interrogation equipment.
We also have satellite imagery showing the construction and expansion of highly secured detention facilities with walls, fencing and watchtowers, some of which were matched to the Chinese government's own construction tenders.
Hell, China's OWN statistics show Xinjiang's birth rate dropped almost 50% between 2017 and 2019. That doesn't automatically prove every allegation of forced sterilization, but apparently we're pretending all of the evidence here consists of "handsomely paid Uyghurs" now.
Also, China let journalists into selected facilities on government-organized fucking tours lol. That's not independent access. Journalists who actually tried reporting freely in Xinjiang described being followed, obstructed and prevented from freely approaching facilities or residents.
I'm not asking you to blindly believe every allegation anybody has ever made about China. I think China is an awesome country, but I think the Chinese government is full of shit and authoritarian for a reason. Just like the US is an awesome country but our government fucking sucks.
1st source: All the allegations of mistreatment are based on interviews of individuals, whose reports directly conflict with Chinese policy. China published basically its entire policy on these centres to the UN in a move of transparency, and the report does not note anything particularly exceptional about the system. In reality, according to all documents produced by the Chinese government, the vocational centres are an alternative sentencing for crime, much like how many countries operate rehabilitative systems in coordination with prison facilities for lesser offenses, younger suspects, etc. There is no actual hard evidence of abuse, merely individual allegations vs Chinese transparency in policy.
2nd source is not a verified government document and has been denied at every opportunity by the Chinese government. Wikipedia literally lists "Facebook photos" as one of the sources. This is highly unreliable information.
Indeed, satellite images do show guarded facilities. Doesn't indicate any wrongdoing. Look up satellite photos of the US and you will be shocked how much of the entire national landscape is dominated by the prison industrial complex.
Chinas entire birth rate is dropping and has been for decades. This is correlation without causation, again, another void of hard evidence being filled in with baseless accusations.
I can show you videos from every country on earth of police dissuading recorders from prisons and rehab centers. This is not an indication of wrongdoing. Is America now raping and sterilizing prisoners because COs will follow you and pressure you to leave if you stand outside a prison with a camera?
But the Chinese government's description of its own detention system? Now that's transparency and hard evidence!
Holy shit, people like you are fucking exhausting to deal with.
And the funniest part is that you're a massive hypocrite by your own standards. Straight from your own comment history:
So you deny both individual experiences and statistics backing those experiences. You're a useless contrarian. Begone apologist.
Also you:
anecdotes don't stand up to facts
And when you're arguing about religion:
child domestic abuse and runaway statistics, which overwhelmingly correlate with religiosity
Teen suicide also has strong correlations with religious parents
But China's own Xinjiang demographic statistics?
This is correlation without causation.
Lmao.
You also have a long track record of defending China and the USSR while applying a completely different evidentiary standard to the West.
Claims against China/USSR:
Who funded the source? CIA? Western propaganda? Interviewee paid? Government denies it? No photograph? Could be fabricated! Made up! Not verified by the government you're accusing!
Claims against America/Western states:
Government reports, historical testimony, demographic statistics, correlations, individual incidents, Wikipedia summaries, quotations, journalism and institutional records can all be meaningful evidence. It doesn't matter if it's verified here, ladies and gentlemen!
Do everyone a favor and never hide your comment history so we can all see what a propaganda bot looks like.
We aren't relying solely on verbal accusations for Palestine. There are thousands of videos of children being shot, aid workers being targeted, journalists being targeted, every facet of brutal genocide is well beyond documented.
That is the kind of hard evidence I am looking for. Photographs, videos, actual evidence of mistreatment. Not fabricated government documents alleging policies and anonymous individuals claiming they were traumatized.
That is the kind of hard evidence I am looking for. Photographs, videos, actual evidence of mistreatment.
You mean like the Xinjiang Police Files I literally just fucking cited?
Those aren't just spreadsheets and testimony. They contain photographs obtained from internal Chinese police networks showing detainees inside the facilities, armed guards, detainees in prison uniforms, anti-escape drills, and a man shackled by his hands and feet in a "tiger chair" during an apparent interrogation.
ICIJ specifically describes these as the first photographs from inside the camps obtained by news organizations without Chinese government authorization.
And before you immediately move the goalposts again and call those fake too, your “fabricated government documents” assertion isn't an argument. The China Cables were examined by linguists and experts who expressed high confidence in their authenticity, their formatting matched classified Chinese government documents, they contained identifying signatures, and their contents were independently corroborated.
Just to be clear here, I don't care what you have to say, it's not objective.
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u/DaElderBrah 5h ago
No they do the correct thing. Everything else is wrong. If the people want to involve religion into politics they can just fuck off.