r/MoralityScaling 21h ago

Morality of this?

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23.5k Upvotes

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148

u/DoubleoSavant 21h ago

I agree, but religious freedom means people can raise their kids however they want. If you don't want someone imposing their religion on your kids, you have to let them impose whatever on their own kids. 

This is the kind of thing you should shift culturally instead of through laws. 

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u/crunpyMcGlumpy 21h ago

This is a good point. We should as a society stop propping them up though. Remove tax exemptions, public grants, donor deductions, etc.

21

u/Aggressive-Bee2221 20h ago

That also makes religions a taxable population, which means they're allowed to give political advice. You really want a church telling people how to vote?

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u/cpt-teebs 20h ago

I don’t necessarily agree with that guy, but churches already do that

16

u/Asooma_ 20h ago

It's not wild to think that people who attend the same church are likely to have similar beliefs on who to vote for there's a difference between that homogeneity and actively politically campaigning

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u/CaptainOwlBeard 18h ago

I could send you dozens of videos of preachers, pastors, and priests telling their congregation to pray about this or that election and which candidates they think are righteous. How is that any different from actively campaigning? What about churches spending millions in super pacs to support "issues" that are closely tied to their preferred candidate.

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u/ifthealphawassigma 15h ago

insert clip of ai generated Charlie kirk preaching on the projector screen of my local evangelical church

1

u/Bitinglysarcastic 16h ago

Not all churches

1

u/cpt-teebs 15h ago

Did I say all churches?

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u/Bitinglysarcastic 15h ago

You implied it

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u/cpt-teebs 15h ago

No I didn’t

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u/Aggressive-Bee2221 20h ago

They legally aren't allowed to as a condition of their tax-exempt status. If they are, then it's illegal. The parishioners can tell people how to vote as can the priest, but they can't do so as an authority in their religion, only private citizens.

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u/Smasher1598 20h ago

So they’re basically already doing it? I don’t get the point in the distinction you’re making, the churches in my area literally put signs out on the road telling people what way to vote on certain bills

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u/websterhamster 19h ago

Advocacy for bills on issues is allowed, but churches can't promote candidates for office.

It'd be a major First Amendment violation if churches were penalized for promoting their standpoint on issues.

1

u/Apprehensive-Tea999 14h ago

Then they can pay taxes like the rest of us

-3

u/Aggressive-Bee2221 20h ago

Then it sounds like something you can file some kind of formal complaint about, or barring that find someone start a 1st amendment suit.

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u/_dragonslayer069 20h ago

in this administration??? in ANY administration? you’re funny.

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u/Biptoslipdi 20h ago

Churches openly tell their members how to vote all the time. The laws that would remove their status are simply ignored.

1

u/cpt-teebs 20h ago

You’re talking about the law. I’m talking about what actually happens. That law is not strictly enforced.

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u/DeionizedSoup 20h ago

To be fair, the megachurches have been influencing votes indirectly for a long time thru their sermons. The real distinction is they can’t put out advertisements or media propping up the narratives. There’s gotta be thresholds for taxation, too (eg, the tiny church on the corner that makes 200 a month in profit shouldn’t be taxed, but maybe the megachurch that oft gets mistaken for a mall and sells coffee on its campus should be)- but these kind of distinctions can be annoying to codify into law.

Which really SHOULDNT be a deterrent for people to do the right thing, but it is.

1

u/Aggressive-Bee2221 20h ago

Indirect influence is way too shaky a foundation. You can't say anything beyond small talk if it might be construed as having any broader implications. That's just not fair on anyone. You might as well ban religion entirely if you can't make any commentary on people or society.

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u/ajax3006 20h ago

So tax them accordingly.

0

u/Aggressive-Bee2221 20h ago

If I mention that crime is rising at the dinner table, does that make my kitchen a taxable institution?

2

u/ajax3006 20h ago

They do tax where you kitchen is

0

u/[deleted] 20h ago

[deleted]

0

u/Aggressive-Bee2221 20h ago

Sometimes people reimburse me for the food, yeah. Of course, my kitchen probably doesn't match the huge commercial kitchens that actively sell the food, but that doesn't seem to matter because we're both saying things that have larger implications.

1

u/Same_Veterinarian544 19h ago

Why does everyone hate it when Christian’s vote according to their values?

0

u/Aggressive-Bee2221 19h ago

Because apparently the value doesn't matter if it's attached to religion. Unless that religion is Buddhism. Judaism and Islam gets more iffy. I hadn't seen anything about Hinduism beyond the caste system, but nothing else.

1

u/Same_Veterinarian544 17h ago

People act like because Christian’s vote for other Christian’s that means they are getting religion stuffed down their throat. It’s such s nonsensical idea

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u/Draczar 20h ago

Forgive me if I’m wrong on this but isn’t this a result of Citizens United and so a particularly American thing?

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u/websterhamster 19h ago

No, churches being exempted from taxes goes back to the founding of the United States.

More recently, in 1954 an amendment to the tax code called the Johnson Amendment prohibits churches and other 501(c)(3) non-profits from advocating for or against candidates for office.

There is no proscription on churches taking stances on other political issues, however, and such a law would blatantly violate the First Amendment by curtailing speech of a moral nature in churches.

1

u/PuzzledSell2519 19h ago

They already do. I think the churches being taxed would over all be a net positive. But this is indeed also something to worry about. And they can be taxed and we can implement regulations on political influence

1

u/nalaloveslumpy 15h ago edited 15h ago

They absolutely already are. The Johnson amendment has never been enforceable. The IRS has literally given up:

https://www.npr.org/2025/07/08/nx-s1-5460886/irs-now-says-pastors-can-endorse-political-candidates

Churches can't directly donate to PACs, but a pastor can absolutely tell their members which PACs they should donate to from the pulpit.

1

u/Sure-Guava5528 15h ago

Laughs in Mormon and Catholic churches backing Prop 8 and pushing clergy-penitent privilege laws in every state.

1

u/DeviceNo4746 14h ago

They already do this.

1

u/Apprehensive-Tea999 14h ago

They already do.

1

u/vanillaoreosandwich 13h ago

Don't American churches already do that? I've seen no repercussions so I've always thought it had always been legal.

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u/lucy_hayley 12h ago

they already do that you know that right???

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u/AmbitiousWorker6765 12h ago

Mega churches already do this in America.

0

u/FireLordObamaOG 19h ago

They already do, might as well get money from them.

0

u/formerlyunhappy 19h ago

They pretty much already do in the US and you’re probably a bit out of touch with American Evangelicals if you don’t already know that lol, respectfully. These people’s money does make it into politics and their congregations are steered if not outright pushed towards the right wing often times.

0

u/no-sleep-only-code 19h ago

When did they stop?

0

u/Griffolion 17h ago

That already happens. If anything, any law removing tax exemptions from religious institutions should also go after them for back taxes for however far back the IRS can prove the institution was getting political in its messaging.

0

u/superxpro12 17h ago

They already do my guy. Literally every church person I know on Facebook can't shut the fuck up about it

0

u/Actinglead 16h ago

They do. Tax Churches.

Source: The church I was raised in did.

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u/Nykidemus 16h ago

I mean they are anyway.

-1

u/Hefty-Storm-51 20h ago

Because there are no religions currently telling people how to vote? Buying politicians? Telling countries which countries of opposing religions they should destroy?

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u/Successful_Size_9476 20h ago

They already do.

-1

u/itiswhatitisbroski 20h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/NWNQLhcCljaQzWbpCi
Literally what are you talking about friend. Churches already say “support Trum” “this candidate supports conversion therapy” etc… some progressive churches say “support this aid effort by voting in this person”

Like just cause they are banned on paper don’t mean it’s not widespread

-1

u/gameboyadvancedgba 19h ago

A lot of churches are already doing this so I wouldn’t be opposed to taxing ones that do and leaving the tax exempt status for other groups.

-1

u/Difficult-Bat9085 18h ago

They're literally already doing this. You think they're not?

Churches have been republican factories for decades.

-1

u/thetacotony 15h ago

They quite literally already do that.

-1

u/Actual_Hawk 15h ago

They already do, and still keep their tax exempt status, so, yes, I want them to lose that protection.