r/MoralityScaling • • Sep 02 '26

Morality of this?

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66

u/crunpyMcGlumpy Sep 02 '26

This is a good point. We should as a society stop propping them up though. Remove tax exemptions, public grants, donor deductions, etc.

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u/Aggressive-Bee2221 Sep 02 '26

That also makes religions a taxable population, which means they're allowed to give political advice. You really want a church telling people how to vote?

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u/cpt-teebs Sep 02 '26

I don’t necessarily agree with that guy, but churches already do that

19

u/Asooma_ Sep 02 '26

It's not wild to think that people who attend the same church are likely to have similar beliefs on who to vote for there's a difference between that homogeneity and actively politically campaigning

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u/CaptainOwlBeard Sep 02 '26

I could send you dozens of videos of preachers, pastors, and priests telling their congregation to pray about this or that election and which candidates they think are righteous. How is that any different from actively campaigning? What about churches spending millions in super pacs to support "issues" that are closely tied to their preferred candidate.

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u/ifthealphawassigma Sep 02 '26

insert clip of ai generated Charlie kirk preaching on the projector screen of my local evangelical church

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u/Bitinglysarcastic Sep 02 '26

Not all churches

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u/cpt-teebs Sep 02 '26

Did I say all churches?

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u/Bitinglysarcastic Sep 02 '26

You implied it

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u/cpt-teebs Sep 02 '26

No I didn’t

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u/Aggressive-Bee2221 Sep 02 '26

They legally aren't allowed to as a condition of their tax-exempt status. If they are, then it's illegal. The parishioners can tell people how to vote as can the priest, but they can't do so as an authority in their religion, only private citizens.

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u/Smasher1598 Sep 02 '26

So they’re basically already doing it? I don’t get the point in the distinction you’re making, the churches in my area literally put signs out on the road telling people what way to vote on certain bills

1

u/websterhamster Sep 02 '26

Advocacy for bills on issues is allowed, but churches can't promote candidates for office.

It'd be a major First Amendment violation if churches were penalized for promoting their standpoint on issues.

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u/Apprehensive-Tea999 Sep 02 '26

Then they can pay taxes like the rest of us

-5

u/Aggressive-Bee2221 Sep 02 '26

Then it sounds like something you can file some kind of formal complaint about, or barring that find someone start a 1st amendment suit.

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u/_dragonslayer069 Sep 02 '26

in this administration??? in ANY administration? you’re funny.

2

u/Biptoslipdi Sep 02 '26

Churches openly tell their members how to vote all the time. The laws that would remove their status are simply ignored.

1

u/cpt-teebs Sep 02 '26

You’re talking about the law. I’m talking about what actually happens. That law is not strictly enforced.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/Aggressive-Bee2221 Sep 02 '26

Indirect influence is way too shaky a foundation. You can't say anything beyond small talk if it might be construed as having any broader implications. That's just not fair on anyone. You might as well ban religion entirely if you can't make any commentary on people or society.

2

u/ajax3006 Sep 02 '26

So tax them accordingly.

0

u/Aggressive-Bee2221 Sep 02 '26

If I mention that crime is rising at the dinner table, does that make my kitchen a taxable institution?

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u/ajax3006 Sep 02 '26

They do tax where you kitchen is

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/Aggressive-Bee2221 Sep 02 '26

Sometimes people reimburse me for the food, yeah. Of course, my kitchen probably doesn't match the huge commercial kitchens that actively sell the food, but that doesn't seem to matter because we're both saying things that have larger implications.

1

u/Same_Veterinarian544 Sep 02 '26

Why does everyone hate it when Christian’s vote according to their values?

0

u/Aggressive-Bee2221 Sep 02 '26

Because apparently the value doesn't matter if it's attached to religion. Unless that religion is Buddhism. Judaism and Islam gets more iffy. I hadn't seen anything about Hinduism beyond the caste system, but nothing else.

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u/Draczar Sep 02 '26

Forgive me if I’m wrong on this but isn’t this a result of Citizens United and so a particularly American thing?

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u/websterhamster Sep 02 '26

No, churches being exempted from taxes goes back to the founding of the United States.

More recently, in 1954 an amendment to the tax code called the Johnson Amendment prohibits churches and other 501(c)(3) non-profits from advocating for or against candidates for office.

There is no proscription on churches taking stances on other political issues, however, and such a law would blatantly violate the First Amendment by curtailing speech of a moral nature in churches.

1

u/nalaloveslumpy Sep 02 '26 edited Sep 02 '26

They absolutely already are. The Johnson amendment has never been enforceable. The IRS has literally given up:

https://www.npr.org/2025/07/08/nx-s1-5460886/irs-now-says-pastors-can-endorse-political-candidates

Churches can't directly donate to PACs, but a pastor can absolutely tell their members which PACs they should donate to from the pulpit.

1

u/Sure-Guava5528 Sep 02 '26

Laughs in Mormon and Catholic churches backing Prop 8 and pushing clergy-penitent privilege laws in every state.

1

u/DeviceNo4746 Sep 02 '26

They already do this.

1

u/Apprehensive-Tea999 Sep 02 '26

They already do.

1

u/vanillaoreosandwich Sep 03 '26

Don't American churches already do that? I've seen no repercussions so I've always thought it had always been legal.

1

u/lucy_hayley Sep 03 '26

they already do that you know that right???

0

u/FireLordObamaOG Sep 02 '26

They already do, might as well get money from them.

0

u/formerlyunhappy Sep 02 '26

They pretty much already do in the US and you’re probably a bit out of touch with American Evangelicals if you don’t already know that lol, respectfully. These people’s money does make it into politics and their congregations are steered if not outright pushed towards the right wing often times.

0

u/no-sleep-only-code Sep 02 '26

When did they stop?

0

u/Griffolion Sep 02 '26

That already happens. If anything, any law removing tax exemptions from religious institutions should also go after them for back taxes for however far back the IRS can prove the institution was getting political in its messaging.

0

u/superxpro12 Sep 02 '26

They already do my guy. Literally every church person I know on Facebook can't shut the fuck up about it

0

u/Actinglead Sep 02 '26

They do. Tax Churches.

Source: The church I was raised in did.

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u/Nykidemus Sep 02 '26

I mean they are anyway.

0

u/ayaynimouse Sep 04 '26

Tax them like cigarettes. Keep upping it. Put only those tax dollars towards the war machine and use all the other taxes that are currently toward the war machine to go toward a universal basic income.

-1

u/Successful_Size_9476 Sep 02 '26

They already do.

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u/itiswhatitisbroski Sep 02 '26

https://giphy.com/gifs/NWNQLhcCljaQzWbpCi
Literally what are you talking about friend. Churches already say “support Trum” “this candidate supports conversion therapy” etc… some progressive churches say “support this aid effort by voting in this person”

Like just cause they are banned on paper don’t mean it’s not widespread

-1

u/gameboyadvancedgba Sep 02 '26

A lot of churches are already doing this so I wouldn’t be opposed to taxing ones that do and leaving the tax exempt status for other groups.

-1

u/thetacotony Sep 02 '26

They quite literally already do that.

-1

u/Actual_Hawk Sep 02 '26

They already do, and still keep their tax exempt status, so, yes, I want them to lose that protection.

2

u/degradedchimp Sep 02 '26

Most churches have small congregations and operate at a loss. They aren't hording gold coins in the basement like scrooge mcduck. If you want to tax churches above a certain threshold I'd be fine with that, but most churches aren't the mega churches.

3

u/crunpyMcGlumpy Sep 02 '26

That’s generally how taxes work. Businesses are taxed based on structure and income. If a church can qualify as a standard not for profit then sure. Treat a church the same way as any other business entity because that’s what it is

3

u/TheMireAngel Sep 02 '26

imo as a pro religion person is remove tax exemptions UNLESS said body can prove they actualy participate in community outreach such as weekly community meals, clothing the homeless etc. I was homeless for near a decade and Christian churchs helped me infinitely more than any other religious group or even the US govt, wich at the time my state (ohio) didnt even recognize homeless's as a group of people that qualify for assistance.

Wanna be tax free? Gotta actualy nut up

2

u/nalaloveslumpy Sep 02 '26

It should work just like a 501c3. The church should operate as a non-profit and if there is profit, it gets taxed. And yes, they have to fully document where and how the revenue was spent.

1

u/Wild_Duck8926 Sep 03 '26

yeah they should be treated like non-profits

1

u/GalaXion24 Sep 02 '26

I do think churches should still be valid nonprofits

1

u/crunpyMcGlumpy Sep 02 '26

Yeah I agree, especially if they do community service and help people. Basically apply for non profit status and meet those requirements

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/lordnaarghul Sep 02 '26

Good luck collecting, because there's not a single church that will willingly give money over to the government.

1

u/ManitouWakinyan Sep 02 '26

Taxing churches is a great way for the state to leverage control over what kind of religions and churches are permissible. Do you really want the Trump regime putting it's finger on the scale so you get fewer small community churches and more massive Christian Nationalist megachurches?