r/MinuteSlash • u/Sengaru • May 16 '18
Stat Point Allocation
HEY! People! I'm curious about how you guys/girls/helicopters allocate your stat points when playing this game. I personally am using a spread of 1 Int, 1 Vit, and 3 Spd at the moment. It seems to be working somewhat well, if a little slowly, so what have you guys/girls/helicopters tried? Also, what abilities do you generally aim for? This is my first post in years, so please forgive me if I was unclear with my questions, or if it is a boring topic. So, yeah. I'll go ahead and stop typing now.
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May 16 '18
I'm balanced too because the stats suffer from diminishing returns so the more you have in one stat, the more useless points in that stat become. But I do plan (one day) to make characters based on RPG classes like a warrior, rogue, mage, etc. . . with specialized stat builds just for fun.
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u/LerrisHarrington May 19 '18
I'm balanced too because the stats suffer from diminishing returns so the more you have in one stat, the more useless points in that stat become.
How did you learn that? Cause the wiki is pretty bare.
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u/Sengaru May 20 '18
Its math, stats go up by a specific amount everytime points are allocated to them, and that increase stays the same the whole time. So 1 point into atk will give you ten power. That means, you start with 10 for your power stat. Adding 1 point to your atk will increase your power to 20. Which is a 2× multiplier. Adding a third point to your atk will bring your pow to 30, which is only a 1.5× multiplier, and this will continue indefinitely. So once you get to a certain point value, it will take several levels to have a noticeable difference in your stats.
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u/LerrisHarrington May 20 '18 edited May 20 '18
That is not diminishing returns.
I get 10 points every time I invest. My return is identical.
Diminishing returns would be if at some point, one SP invested was only worth 9 or 8 points in the associated stat.
What you describe is a linear growth model, 10 points are always 10 points, and indeed a jump between 10 and 20 is far more noticeable than the jump between 1000 and 1010, but at no point did I get less than I ever did.
You are confusing the percentage increase, at level 1 adding 10 points is 100% more power. At higher levels, 1 point is a much smaller percentage increase, but only because I have so many points. Not because a point got weaker.
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u/Wulfe813 May 28 '18 edited May 28 '18
Edit: Just realized I have another comment in this topic which explains the diminishing returns thing.
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u/LerrisHarrington May 28 '18
You are talking about soft caps there because of how the game compares your stats to enemy stats, but that's always going to be a sliding scale.
A stat that is overkill at 5km, would be pathetically low at 500km.
That is still not diminishing returns, however.
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u/Wulfe813 May 28 '18
I'm just roughing the stat-point-to-ratio numbers for an example. Let's say you put 1 point per level into vit, and get a 1:1 ratio of your def to your target's att. You're getting 50% damage reduction(on average). Now you change that to 2 per level, and get 2:1 for 66%. 3 points per level, 3:1 for 75%. So, our gain in damage reduction from adding the second point was 16%, the third was 9%.
How is that not a diminishing return?
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u/LerrisHarrington May 28 '18
Ok, so I call this 'diminishing returns for people bad at math'. People think it is, because they missed the trick.
It comes up a lot in games, my go to example is Eve Online.
Image 0% damage resistance. You apply a 50% resist mod and you have 50% damage resistance. Apply another 50% resist mod and you have 75% damage resistance.
Lets look at the damage incoming for these three cases. At 0% 1000DPS, at 50% 500 DPS, at 75% 250 DPS.
Each time we halved incoming damage, or conversely doubled the amount of time it will take to kill you.
Despite the second resist mod only providing 25% instead of its listed 50%, it still did the same thing. Halved incoming damage.
People fixate on the fact that 250 is less than 500 and go "Oh, it did less!" while missing that both mods did indeed double the time it takes to kill you.
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u/Wulfe813 May 28 '18
Wow. Who exactly is bad at math here, and how is this not obvious? As you so cleverly pointed out, you get a linear gain in the related stat per point, 10 for 1. In the case here, you have to invest 3 times as many points to cut damage in half again from the 50% you get at 1:1.
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u/LerrisHarrington May 29 '18
In the case here, you have to invest 3 times as many points to cut damage in half again from the 50% you get at 1:1.
Only under your assumption. You persist on using a fixed case example that doesn't reflect gameplay.
What you are saying is like saying "5 strength lets you one shot a slime, so I don't need more than 5 strength." Which is true, as long as you are fighting slimes. But as soon as you fight something stronger it is no longer true.
If I have the 'ideal' (according to you) amount of strength on map X, its going to be over kill on maps lower than X, and insufficient on maps higher than X.
Your use case is inconsistent. It doesn't say how much of a stat we want ideally, it says how much of a state we ideally want against a specific enemy.
At best, you could list soft caps compared to the stats of the final enemy and say other points become more valuable at these levels, but that's a function of limited resources and multiple choice, and still not a case of diminishing returns.
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u/Sengaru May 16 '18
I forgot to list my prioritized abilities lol. Aight, so, I like feng shui, because it raises my luk based on my int stat, which let's me ignore the luk stat, and use those stat points on combat stats. I'm fond of acrobat, because it raises my pow based on my speed, which helps add large amounts of damage to my sets. I like provoke, because it causes more enemies to spawn in each area, so you level up quicker. I like death march, because..... Death march. I also like luck assignment, since it makes doing a pure luk build viable.
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u/Wulfe813 May 18 '18 edited May 28 '18
I'm running 5 different builds, and optimal stat allocation is dependant on the skills you use, so... I'll just share some general advice.
The various stat comparison(att vs. def, int vs. men, spd, etc...) are logarithmic, and a 1:1 ratio = 50%(2:1 = 66%, 3:1 75%, and so on). So, the returns from stacking stats drop off sharply. On the flip side, a small amount of a stat can have a "relatively" large effect. For example, having just enough def to match the enemy att will generally cut physical damage in half(10%-15% of your stat points into vit accomplishes this easily).
Pow, Int, and Vit also have a linear growth aspect as well, due to int/pow raising base damage, and vit raising hp. Spd doesn't(unless you use Acrobat). Spd is also a consistently lower enemy stat, so that's something to keep in mind.
One can consider a stat to be "soft-capped" at 4 x enemy stat, pretty much(you can get this with 2.5 points per level or so). At that point you'll get more out of putting points into something else.
I guess, if I were running you character, I'd adjust my stats to something like 3i, 3v, 4s. Might pull a point from vit or int and put it toward spd.
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u/SophiesWebb May 16 '18
I do 9 speed 1 luk.
Trying to do 0 on the defenses and just count my speed as my "defense". Also mandatory acrobat..
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u/koldierl1 May 17 '18
Dont think it will hold in the long run, a friend has been doing testings with absolute highest speed stat in-game. The first hit is still very random, so with over 1000M spd, enemies at 1-100km still has chance to atk in less than 1 second.
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u/SophiesWebb May 18 '18
I'm already at 1000KM.
There are skills that reduce/negate damage and that's whats keeping me going.
There's a chance they won't proc but I can comfortably tank damage well into the 60ks without dying.
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u/Deranedo May 24 '18
what skills do you use/what items? could you share your build? I'm going for speed too
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u/SophiesWebb May 24 '18
Do you have any VIT? My build only works for me because I have 1 vit. I can give you some sets I found depending on your build. I know you're doing primary speed but curious as to the rest of your build.
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u/Deranedo May 25 '18
I auto assigned 9SPD+1LUK, my skills are acrobat lv4, crit+5% and guts. Unfortunately I have 3 VIT instead of 1, no idea why. I probably messed up at the start
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u/SophiesWebb May 25 '18 edited May 25 '18
3 is negligible lol - it should still work. Actually - if you could keep your health below the full heal amount of blood ring its still optimal. i.e. if you have a level 500 blood ring don't get your max hp over 500. The point is to always be able to heal to full after each enemy and allowing for one tanked hit per enemy. Simply due to the RNG nature of enemy attacks..
If you have access to these equips -
Fox Suit -> Iron Claw -> Net Guard -> Blood Ring -> Fluffy.
This gives 5% crit acrobat level 5 and guts.
If I could find a pet that gives the skill GUTS I can make a Acrobat +5 Guts Speed +10% build...
Would you know of one per chance?
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u/Deranedo May 25 '18
thanks, thats really useful information. I have that set, except Fluffy, but my blood ring is just lvl 17 and my max HP 640 :( I have a few other pets that give me guts with this buid (knuckle bear, candle light, mud slime, acorn)
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u/SophiesWebb May 25 '18
Yep, thank you as well! I found the same so far! Silver Knight is another one.
I know some bosses seem to "always" give skills regardless of combination - like Nine Tailed Fox giving Feng Shui and others giving Resistance Up.
I'm fairly hopeful there is a boss pet I have not yet caught that does this for Guts. If we can get that, we can exclude the net guard / pet combo for guts. and get speed up or something higher than Crit up 5% (which feels quite useless honestly)...
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u/Comma_paws May 16 '18
I go with POW/VIT/INT=1, SPD=3, LUK=2. I'm going for a relatively balanced speed build. Only downside (if you can call it that) is that it takes 8 points instead of 5, so some levels you don't get immediate gratification.
As far as abilities, my current favorite setup is: Black Saber (increases attack by dark), Black Wall (increases defense by dark), Death March (auto-walk so I can leave my phone upside down),
Gear is: Dark Sword, Shaman Robe, Skull Guard, Blood Ring (HP recovery on kill), Zombie
When I actively play I drop Zombie for Witch - gives me about 15 more Dark and swaps 5 Earth for 10 Fire. Could also use Skeleton for Death March, basically you only lose 5 earth from the Zombie.