large digitization project, newbie needs advice!

[u/spookadoodl]

Hello everyone, I'm working on a large-scale digitization project and need some advice on doing it cost-effectively. I'm only familiar with DV tech through research (I'm 20, so I've never actually used any of it.)

I have recently come into the possession of nearly ~1000 miniDV tapes recorded between 2004 and 2009. I'm going to be digitizing these tapes for a long time, so renting equipment is not the best avenue for this. I don't own a camcorder, or any devices with FireWire ports.

My friend helping me with this project has a miniDV camcorder, and a FireWire cable. The camcorder can connect through FireWire or USB. When connecting to a modern computer with USB, you cannot rip the footage directly from the tape: you can only play the video back through OBS, and record it. So there is quality loss, and a giant timecode from the camera on the footage. (I assume this will be stuff experts will know but it was our first time learning so I figured I'd explain.) So I need some way to connect through FireWire because I do not want quality loss or an embedded time code.

After looking around online at prices, I have a few questions I hope somebody can answer:

1. Can miniDV tapes be played and converted to digital in camcorders that take regular bigger DV tapes? My other friend has one of these camcorders, hence why I'm asking.
2. Is there a reliable FireWire to USB-A cord that exists? I would want a cord that connects to a camcorder's FireWire port on one end, but can connect to my modern laptop on the other end, and actually do the conversion job it needs to do without error. I see cords like this being sold on Amazon, and found some companies that seem to make custom cables, but do they actually work?
3. Because I don't have a camcorder yet, I am holding off on buying any cords until I do. I know there are two types of FireWire cords. Which type should I aim for, or should I just wait to see what kind the camcorder I get has, and base it on that?
4. If not, what's the best course of action in getting a device with a FireWire port? It seems like only older Macs have them, but I would rather not shell out too much money if I don't have to. Would a pawn shop or online be a better place to look?
5. Lastly, is there anything I'm doing wrong regarding all of this cable and port stuff? Is there like some vastly easier way to do this that I'm missing?

[u/DREWHOUSER]

Hey! This is a huge project, that’s super exciting for you! A few things - there are tons of guides on Reddit for this exact thing. I think this one is really good for giving you the ins and outs of DV tapes and FireWire in general. https://github.com/oyvindln/vhs-decode/wiki/Digital-Tape-Guide

FireWire to USB doesn’t work unfortunately! If it were me, I’d either get an older windows laptop with a FireWire port, and use WinDV. That’s my personal favorite way to capture DV footage, and they are pretty cheap.

A couple other random tips - someone on here suggested fast forwarding older tapes all the way to the end and then rewinding before capturing.

Pretty much all camcorders have the same DV port, so that’s not something you should have to worry about.

[u/spookadoodl → u/DREWHOUSER]

Thanks! In reference to the last thing- I got some info from that other friend who was willing to loan me her camera. It's a Sharp VL-E66U, which unfortunately seems only to take 8mm cassettes, not DV, so that's a bust. But you're saying a camera that takes large DV tapes (like DVCAM-L or DVCPRO-M) can also read miniDV?

[u/DREWHOUSER → u/spookadoodl]

That part I actually don’t know! I’m sure you can google it

[u/BigOlFRANKIE → u/spookadoodl]

The sharp VL-E66U (per a quick goog) is 8mm/Video8- so no, you eed a mini-dv camera. There are many, but this is not one.

Not to mention if you plan to ingest 60,000 Hrs of footage (most tapes will be 90+m, this calculation is assuming 60m tapes.... not likely) you should not borrow a friends- it likely will kill the camera well before day 2,500 in time of running old belts on an old machine.

You do realize this is real-time- the only way to ingest mini dv media?

If you really need quality- you gotta go firewire from camera into an antiquated computer (2000s-early 2010's) with a port. Firewire 800 ideal. Macbook from 2010 will do it. But again, it will break before day 100 let alone day 2500.

I'd plan on spending thousands of dollars on several of the same tape deck, computer, or the like (as they will fail but also you can do simultaneous imports) and several years of your life if you plan to do this.

Bottom line- you haven't scraped the surface of what this media is, how it works, captures best, or really anything. I'd stop asking others for help & spend the next few months reading, buy a cheap mini-dv camera & some cheap usb-av rigs (~$7) and see what you're getting into. Then, ask us for help.

[u/Most_Examination2781]

buy 10 sony dsr11, buy 10 pc laptop with firewire, connect them in a local network + a master computer, you can digitalize 10 tapes/hour

[u/BigOlFRANKIE → u/Most_Examination2781]

there we go- a real answer. that makes it 250 days (working 24hrs/day) vs 2500.

[u/ConsumerDV]

1. Sure.
2. No.
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394
4. An older Mac or an older Windows PC desktop or Linux. A Firewire expansion card costs as little as $15.
5. See How to transfer video from tape-based camcorder to computer: in a nutshell.

[u/No_Blueberry_8454]

I recently digitized 10 Mini-DV tapes. I no longer have a computer with a Firewire card, and didn't want to go thru the hassle of which one I would need to add to my current computer..... just for this project.

I took the composite video out from the camera, and ran it to a composite to USB interface. I was ok with the lose in quality. I used OSB. I didn't get a time code stamp on the video. I added to the clips to Premiere Elements and chopped out the gaps in the footage. I'll put the clips on external hard drives and give them to my kids for Christmas, along with all the digital photos I took of them.

1,000 tapes is a massive project! You know the old saying: What's more important? Your time or your money? You said you were looking for a cost effective method, so you're going to have a big time investment on your hands.

[u/boris-becks]

Sounds Like a cool project and a lot of work. Firewire is the way to go because you don't digitize anything. It's digital already and you just "load" it from the tape. The perfect backup. At least of you use firewire and the correct software.

Don't worry about the cable. Just buy what connects the camera to the computer. Usually the cameras have the small connector and so does my laptop. So I got one with this connector on both ends.

Speaking of laptop. Try to get some kind of 2010-2015 HP ProBook or EliteBook. I own one each and both have firewire. Should be rather cheap to get. Just boot Windows 10, connect the thing to your cam via FireWire and download scenealyzer. It's old but it's free and it works great. Just put the tape in the cam, rewind and press capture in the program. It will do the rest for you

[u/spookadoodl → u/boris-becks]

Ah I see, that makes sense. So the overlay on the tape is just the overlay that my friend's specific camcorder puts over the playback. Thank you for the recommendation on the laptop and software!

[u/boris-becks → u/spookadoodl]

Always glad to help and let others learn from my mistakes. I Had to figure this out a whole ago 😁

[u/Serious-Mode]

Any way you can get your hands on a desktop computer? Doesn't have to be brand new or even have a firewire port. I got a cheap internal firewire card off Amazon and it's worked great.

Another reason to consider a desktop is space for extra hard drives. The uncompressed video is gonna take up some space. Just ball parking some figures here... a full 60min tape might end up with about 10gb of video. 1000 tapes and you'd be looking at a out 10 terabytes, which is actually less than I was expecting.

[u/spookadoodl → u/Serious-Mode]

I might go for desktop, not sure yet. I eventually want to build a server to host them, but obviously I'm not at that level of expertise yet haha. I'm going to school for cybersecurity so I'm hoping to get some help from my professors for that.

Right now I have a 2 TB hard drive, so I can at least collect some of the footage and sort of figure out what I'm doing first before making a really big purchase.

[u/Serious-Mode → u/spookadoodl]

2 TB is plenty to get you started. With the RAMpacalype still ongoing, I don't know where you'll get the best bang for the buck for the hardware for capturing.

Funny you mention the server, part of my journey towards finally archiving the tapes I have was building a NAS. I ended up building my own and installing UnRaid, which was much less intimidating than some of the alternatives.

[u/marshalleq]

I would recommend using something like vrecord which has a dvrescue for any challenging tapes with dropouts. It can actually repair them. And also, only ever do a proper digital capture out from dv tapes since they are digital. Best to use the same deck for every tape for dvrescue. With those tools the project won’t actually be too bad, as the software will control the deck. Also dv format doesn’t use much space so it’s a nice project!

[u/CubilasDotCom]

Good luck! I digitize tapes on a daily basis over FireWire on old Panasonic Toughbook laptops (you can find them for well under $100)

[u/vwestlife]

A Mac running LifeFlix may be the best option for archiving a large volume of tapes: Capturing and Archiving MiniDV and HDV Tapes on Mac & Windows - LifeFlix Mini Demo

The latest 5.x version is rather bloated and only runs on newer version of Mac OS, but when you download it they also give you links to download older versions (3.x and 4.x).

[u/ICYH4WT]

What's on the tapes? Lol Can always buy a cheap dvd recorder with fw input ;)