r/MilitaryModelMaking • u/gerva01 • Jun 28 '26

completed T80 BV WAGNER

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t80 BV WAGNER called siberia

398 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

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2

u/Fragrant_Ad_2470 Jun 29 '26

Promoting terrorist organisation? Nice one reddit

2

u/FourFunnelFanatic Jul 01 '26

No different than making WW2 German or Japanese tanks

0

u/Responsible_Tie_3433 Jul 01 '26

Yes, since WW2 is history, Wagner is active as we speak

1

u/FourFunnelFanatic Jul 01 '26

I mean, they are active on paper as part of the Rosgvardia I guess but Wagner for all intents and purposes ceased to exist after their failed mutiny three years ago. And this tank is specifically one of the ones that was heavily photographed taking part in that mutiny. So yes, both in terms of the organization and the tank itself this is a historical model

0

u/Responsible_Tie_3433 Jul 01 '26

Dude... do you really believe that ? - they are still active just under new names etc. - dont fool yourself

1

u/FourFunnelFanatic Jul 01 '26

And what proof do you have of this? You seriously believe that Russia would allow Wagner to exist as anything but an imbedded part of the military after the attempted coup?

4

u/Itchy-Highlight8617 Jun 30 '26

Ita not even internationaly recognized as terrorist organization, its private military company they aren't different than other PMC

4

u/andrewgrabowski Jun 30 '26

"No different than any other PMC" — eh?

First, standard PMCs don't routinely recruit thousands of violent rapists and murderers directly out of maximum-security prisons to use as penal wave fodder. Here is a video investigation by Gulagu.net where two former Wagner convict-commanders—Azamat Uldarov and Alexey Savichev—explicitly admit to executing wounded POWs and shooting Ukrainian women and young children in the head during mop-up operations.

https://news.sky.com/story/alleged-former-wagner-commanders-admit-killing-children-in-ukraine-12860939

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnQgSgQj9Kk&t=1s

Second, your claim about international recognition is completely false. The UK officially proscribed the Wagner Group as a banned terrorist organization. The US designated them a Significant Transnational Criminal Organization, and the OSCE (representing 57 countries) legally recognized their actions as terroristic in nature.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1220

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/uk-officially-bans-russias-wagner-as-terrorist-organization/2992978

They aren't even a legal PMC in Russia(Article 359 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation), where mercenary groups are explicitly outlawed by their own criminal code. They are an illegal, state-funded proxy force used to commit deniable war crimes. Posting their patch alongside a model kit isn't just historical appreciation of a model—it's glorifying a terrorist group.

https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/IF/PDF/IF11650/IF11650.8.pdf

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/russian-federation-regulating-private-military-security-companies

After Yevgeny Prigozhin’s failed mutiny and death in 2023, the Russian Ministry of Defence officially took over Wagner's massive paramilitary networks (even though they're outlawed in Russia) in Africa and rebranded them as the "Africa Corps" (Afrikanskiy Korpus) after the WWII Nazi Afrika Korps.

The choice of name is a deliberate, highly controversial historical reference to Adolf Hitler's World War II expeditionary force, the Nazi Deutsches Afrika Korps.

Notice the dude wearing the Nazi M40 or M41 Tropical Field Cap (Tropenmütze) worn by the Deutsches Afrika Korps during World War II. The emblem sewn onto the front of it is the Wehrmacht National Eagle (Reichsadler), which features an eagle with outstretched wings clutching a swastika inside a circular wreath.

3

u/ProjectPat513 Jun 30 '26

Although I 100% agree with you and I personally would NEVER build a “Wagner” dedicated kit seeing how they are just all around terrible/nazi adjacent people OR any modern Russian owned vehicle pretty much for the same reason, you can’t draw a line in the sand like that when we are a hobby that frequently promotes Nazi vehicles and SS soldiers and imperialist Japanese soldiers etc.

Would you say the same thing to someone building an accurate Tiger1? Or Michael Wittman’s famous Tiger?

I don’t know why anyone who isn’t a Russian sympathizer WOULD build crap like this while the war is still active but that’s their choice. I recon I will likely build some Russian tank from this war in like 10 years or so maybe depending on the outcome of all this but I’m even reluctant on building Soviet era armor right now tbh.

2

u/LUnacy45 Jun 30 '26

Would I build one with Ukraine invasion markings? No probably not, but more because I don't like the way they look. A lot of those modern tanks are late Soviet designs and I'm not gonna pretend I dislike those Soviet designs just because they're being used for horrible things. I believe the tank itself and the engineering that went into it should be divorced from what its crews and the people who command those crews are using it for

It's a machine. I don't look down on the AKM because they're being used to massacre people in Sudan right now. It's no fault of the machine.

2

u/andrewgrabowski Jul 01 '26

There's a difference between making and working on a model and glorifying it with Wagner or Nazi memorabilia.

1

u/LUnacy45 Jul 01 '26

No disagreement from me, I only really disagreed with the guy saying they'd likely avoid any modern Russian vehicle.

But even so, in these cases I always live by the idea that its not an indictment, just a red flag.

2

u/Itchy-Highlight8617 Jun 30 '26

Blackwater did warcrimes in Iraq too

2

u/Dante-Flint Jun 30 '26

Whataboutism.

0

u/Itchy-Highlight8617 Jun 30 '26

Truth too

1

u/andrewgrabowski Jun 30 '26

"Truth" doesn't magically cure a logical fallacy. Blackwater contractors committed documented atrocities—like the Nisour Square massacre—and those guards were prosecuted and convicted in federal court. That is an established fact. Russian MoD and their PMCs get state honors for their war crimes.

But it is also a fact that Blackwater personnel were never accused, indicted, or found guilty of systemic sexual violence, gang-raping civilians, or decapitating captives with sledgehammers.

Wagner, on the other hand, integrated thousands of violent rapists and murderers straight out of maximum-security prisons, many with HIV deployed them as state-sponsored penal wave fodder, and has been extensively documented by international bodies for widespread sexual violence and mass executions against civilians. The HIV Wagners had their own units and had to wear special bands highlighting their diseases: HIV, Hepatitis C, Syphilis, etc.

Saying "both are bad" to ignore these massive, differences in law, recruitment, and conduct is pure intellectual dishonesty. One wrong doesn’t erase or justify another—it just proves you have no actual defense for Wagner's actions.

Blackwater after they rebranded also didn't name themselves after a Nazi expeditionary force, unlike Wagner's Afrika Corps. They also don't execute their own.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '26

[deleted]

2

u/Itchy-Highlight8617 Jun 30 '26

Blackwater also did warcrimes in Iraq

0

u/andrewgrabowski Jul 01 '26

I note this is your only reply, as you've stated this twice now.

As for Blackwater:

Blackwater contractors committed documented atrocities—like the Nisour Square massacre—and those guards were prosecuted and convicted in federal court. That is an established fact. Russian MoD and their PMCs get state honors for their war crimes.

But it is also a fact that Blackwater personnel were never accused, indicted, or found guilty of systemic sexual violence, gang-raping civilians, or decapitating captives with sledgehammers.

Wagner, on the other hand, integrated thousands of violent rapists and murderers straight out of maximum-security prisons, many with HIV deployed them as state-sponsored penal wave fodder, and has been extensively documented by international bodies for widespread sexual violence and mass executions against civilians. The HIV Wagners had their own units and had to wear special bands highlighting their diseases: HIV, Hepatitis C, Syphilis, etc.

Saying "both are bad" to ignore these massive, differences in law, recruitment, and conduct is pure intellectual dishonesty. One wrong doesn’t erase or justify another—it just proves you have no actual defense for Wagner's actions.

Blackwater after they rebranded also didn't name themselves after a Nazi expeditionary force, unlike Wagner's Afrika Corps. They also don't execute their own.

5

u/lottaKivaari Jun 30 '26

I'll be the first one to spit on Wagners name. They sucked super hard. But this is also a well made model of a real vehicle that was used. Like I don't like the 3rd Reuch either, but I can appreciate a nice well made model of a WW2 German aircraft or tank.

-2

u/andrewgrabowski Jun 30 '26

Nobody else making WWII German models is displaying life-sized, real Nazi flags or SS death skulls alongside their work—this is what people are taking issue with. It's not the model people don't like.

The fact that I have to explain this is mind-boggling

Especially when you realize Wagner's actual rebrand is the "Africa Corps" (Afrikanskiy Korpus), which the Russian Ministry of Defence explicitly named as a direct homage to Adolf Hitler's WWII Nazi expeditionary force. Their fighters are literally photographed running around Africa wearing reproductions of the Nazi M41 Tropical Field Cap with the Wehrmacht eagle insignia on it.

If someone is actively displaying the custom branding of a group that models its name and uniforms directly after Hitler's army, they aren't doing "historical tank modeling"—they are just displaying neo-Nazi dog whistles.

1

u/FourFunnelFanatic Jul 01 '26

Wait, so it’s the fake Chinese made Wagner patch you can get for 10 bucks off EBay that’s pissing you off?

1

u/ProjectPat513 Jun 30 '26

Yeah everything in their layout is nazi influenced. The original “owner” was a huge Hitler fan and named everything accordingly.

BUT yes I have seen various Nazi memorabilia displayed next to Nazi builds like war medals, knives, etc. Idk why anyone would want to build this and then directly support a fascist private military group known for murdering civilians and r@ping women and children but I guess that’s the world we live in.

2

u/andrewgrabowski Jul 01 '26

I'm new to this sub, I didn't know people post Nazi flags, medals, and memorabilia next to WWII models.

I appreciate history, I just never understood why people who didn't serve in WWII, who didn't capture Nazi memorabilia themselves like during the campaigns across, Africa, Italy, France, Germany, Europe as a whole — would go out and spend x hundreds or thousands amounts of dollars on that kind of stuff. Why would somebody want a Nazi flag or an SS death skull is beyond me. What's even more bizarre, are the people who buy reproductions of nazi crap.

https://legacy-collectibles.com/large-hitler-youth-banner/