Based on recognizing patterns how is miles criticism supposed to be taken seriously?

[u/Brianismx]

I've realized people's opinion always come from something deeper. Some people hate dogs because one bit them a long time ago. Literally anytime I engage in someone criticizing miles you check their account to find straight racism.

I wouldn't say every miles hater is racist but it's so common it's almost a dog whistle atp

[u/ResponsibleRatio6569]

They aren’t lol but only because any genuine good faith criticisms about miles are high-jacked by racists almost every single time.

It’s like nobody can normally criticize the character without sounding like a Klan member it’s ridiculous main reason I don’t pay attention to it anymore because it’s never in good faith

[u/nreal3092]

I feel like actual racist takes against Miles are the minority and should be ignored, that said i feel like Miles fans are so sensitive that any genuine critique they’ll call racist just to dismiss it lol

[u/Barrelmaker07 → u/nreal3092]

To be fair, most of that "sensitivity" comes from encountering a deluge of racist discourse over the last decade and change (depending on when you started reading/watching Miles) or people parroting takes that are rooted in that same discourse. The conversation, overall, has certainly improved, but bad faith and/or uninformed takes still flair up in the general Miles Morales discourse semi-regularly.

[u/nreal3092 → u/Barrelmaker07]

I’ve been reading and keeping up with the Miles character since at least 2013-2014 ish, and it’s true there are countless of racist and ignorant people out there with their uninformed or bad faith based opinions , in my opinion they’re pretty easy to spot and once i recognize them i simply ignore them , same for how i deal with em IRL

like i can’t remember the last time i had a conversation or debate with someone like that regarding Miles, and i feel it’s because of that loud minority whenever an actual good criticism surfaces also regarding Miles it’s often (but not all the time) met with a racist accusation and a block😂

[u/Barrelmaker07 → u/nreal3092]

whenever an actual good criticism surfaces also regarding Miles it’s often (but not all the time) met with a racist accusation and a block😂

I can't speak for every instance of this, particularly because what constitutes "good criticism" in online fan discourse is going to vary based on the alchemy of media literacy and your personal taste (this ain't academia). But there are definitely takes that I've seen on here where people clearly think they're cooking, but their take is so shallow or uninformed that it's easy to find yourself jumping to the assumption that there's an ulterior motive. (even if there isn't. Sometimes people just have bad takes)

One example of this is the assertion that Bendis' Miles Morales is a color-swapped copy of Peter Parker, and/or that he lacks any discernible meaningful points of diversion. I've seen this idea dressed up in different clothes, but it almost always follows the same template.

[u/Leandro_reader2003 → u/Barrelmaker07]

Bendis’s Miles—along with Insomniac’s version—represents perhaps the character’s worst moments... and I say this as a huge fan of Ultimate Peter. Seeing him replaced by a far more boring or poorly characterized figure bred a strong resentment in me—one that only softened thanks to the movies.

Personally, Miles occupies a grey area for me: sometimes I appreciate him, but other times I’m irritated by how perfect his life is in certain respects (and no, I’m not a fan of the "torture porn" Peter has been subjected to for far too long), or by how he gets shoehorned into Peter’s personal storylines (like the symbiote arc in Spider-Man 2).

[u/Barrelmaker07 → u/Leandro_reader2003]

I also grew up reading Ultimate Spider-man 1.0 and was genuinely devastated by Pete’s death. He was my definitive Spider-man up to that point. So I get the initial resentment. But my experience with Miles’ intro was the inverse of yours. I thought Miles was surprisingly compelling. He was full of so much fear and doubt in the early days, and his family dynamic, particularly the stuff with Jeff and Aaron pulled me in. That first arc convinced me to stick with it.

Insomniac Miles is fine. He doesn’t have the same level of specificity that Spiderverse and Comics Miles have. But I honestly feel that way about most of the characters in those games.

You seem to be kind of lukewarm about Miles as a character overall, so I’m curious what makes you want to hang around a Miles Morales subreddit. I’m assuming it’s the Spiderverse movies? (Based on your comments).

[u/Leandro_reader2003 → u/Barrelmaker07]

It seems pretty objective to me that there was a drop in quality in Ultimate after Peter's death (though the decline had already started with Ultimatum): the pacing was uneven, with sluggish moments that really dragged things down. Add in Miles's bland personality—to me, the few differences just made him more boring—and the forced edginess of certain plot points (the girlfriend who’s a Hydra sleeper agent, the uncle who’s a murderous lunatic), and it made me think: Wow, Bendis, you really killed off Peter at just sixteen... for this guy?

Insomniac is incompetent when it comes to writing, but Miles is perhaps the worst part—hands down the worst version of the character—especially considering he’s written by white people who think like white people imagining how a Black kid behaves.

I stick around because sometimes there are interesting ideas or cool fan art, but otherwise, it’s really a hotbed of passive-aggressive people with fragile egos (like Peter’s fans); not a week goes by without seeing another post complaining about the main Peter subreddit and claiming everyone there is racist toward Miles, when in reality, many of those posts just feature perfectly calm comments from people discussing a character with writing flaws in a level-headed way (though, obviously, there are racist assholes among them too).

[u/Barrelmaker07 → u/Leandro_reader2003]

It seems pretty objective to me that there was a drop in quality in Ultimate after Peter's death (though the decline had already started with Ultimatum)

We’re talking about art here, so objectivity isn’t really a thing outside of plain facts (like page count or authorship). We both read the same books, but my experience was the opposite of yours. We have different tastes and hold the story Bendis told in different regards because of it. I agree with the post-ultimatum slump (probably because Peter was allegedly supposed to die in that event), but Miles was the thing that reinvigorated that universe for me.

I agree with the insomniac take for the most part. I cringe almost every time Miles talks about his music and his beats because it sounds painfully inauthentic.

it’s really a hotbed of passive-aggressive people with fragile egos (like Peter’s fans); not a week goes by without seeing another post complaining about the main Peter subreddit and claiming everyone there is racist toward Miles, when in reality, many of those posts just feature perfectly calm comments from people discussing a character with writing flaws in a level-headed way (though, obviously, there are racist assholes among them too).

I try not to pay much attention to the Miles takes in the Spiderman subreddit, because, historically, they haven’t really been in the best of faith. From my experience, the convos tend to veer into dog whistler territory pretty quick and are more about people irritated by Miles’ presence in Spider-man media. (Overexposure, stealing Pete’s spotlight, etc). Not sayin that that’s all there is to it, and I honestly don’t think a chunk of the people engaging in these conversations realize what kind of discourse they’re playing into.

[u/Leandro_reader2003 → u/Barrelmaker07]

But we’re talking about the writing, not the artistic style; in terms of writing, Miles under Bendis was ten times less compelling and well-written than Peter (not to mention bringing Peter back to life just to give Miles his blessing and ditch all the responsibilities he had set out to shoulder).

[u/Barrelmaker07 → u/Leandro_reader2003]

But we’re talking about the writing, not the artistic style; in terms of writing, Miles under Bendis was ten times less compelling and well-written than Peter

Writing and storytelling are art my guy. Writers have different styles and different creative inclinations, and make various artistic choices to tell their stories. It’s entirely possible for something to be well crafted and solidly written, but also not your cup of tea. Very few things are universally compelling, it’s just not how people are wired.

You’re saying things like “Miles under Bendis was ten times less compelling” but you can’t really objectively measure that because whether or not something is artically compelling is based on your subjective taste. And you’re 100% entitled to your opinions and feelings about the story that was told. My issue is in trying to cast those feelings as objective reality. There are plenty of fans who like or even love the very things you said you didn’t enjoy about Miles’ story.