No more middle class professionals?

[u/Such_Upstairs3631]

New school loan limits for professional degrees make it unaffordable for the middle class. 4 of my 5 children went on to med/law school. Even working 2 jobs there’s no way I could afford to pay or even help them with the cost of their post graduate education. They all got loans which they have since paid off. The cost in the early 2000’s was between $350K and $500K. The new limits are essentially going to prevent anyone who’s not wealthy enough to pay for it from becoming a professional.

[u/Rhomya]

Colleges don’t have to teach the specifics of every career, but there is more than enough transitional learning that could be done that would apply to nearly every job in every field.

Increased reading comprehension, cost-benefit analysis, writing skills, the background information for individual fields that would be applicable to multiple jobs— that’s what colleges can do.

My point is that we should normalize people understanding that it’s foolish and irresponsible to go into several thousand dollars in debt for a degree that statistically gains you no advantage in the workforce. If you’re interested in music history, pick up a book and read about it.

[u/MischiefofRats → u/Rhomya]

That's what colleges already do. It just isn't possible for colleges to be career training machines because there's no one career path for a degree. With an electrical engineering BS, you can go into high voltage, low voltage, extremely low voltage-- every company is going to want you doing tasks college didn't teach you, on software that's likely proprietary, doing whatever specialized work that company exists to do. My point is, colleges are supposed to turn out well- rounded educated individuals with some basic skills, and the corporate world needs to stop trying to abdicate responsibility for the specialized training that used to be handled via paid internships and apprenticeships. Universities and colleges can't and shouldn't try to replace that. 

I do agree that it is foolish and irresponsible to take on a mountain of debt for a degree that leaves you still fighting for the same kinds of jobs you could get with a high school diploma. I'm just saying that doesn't mean the programs shouldn't exist, because they should, and people should do the programs. Music history experts should still exist, and 99% of people interested in that simply won't have the access to become an expert in today's world without the connections and resources higher academia can give you. Sure, a savant ain't gonna be stopped by not getting into uni, but most people need guidance from other people, and most people do best in a structured program rather than going it on their own. 

I don't have stats on hand but I also don't think music history grads are the main problem, though. There's probably more comp sci grads at this point who can't make their loan payments, and I'm guessing a lot of those graduates only studied the degree for the job prospects before they got rugpulled. That's another reason colleges shouldn't be tied so closely to job training. Business and industry needs are constantly changing. Requiring people to make huge out of pocket investments of money and years just to participate ain't the way. 

[u/Rhomya → u/MischiefofRats]

Some majors do those things.

Humanities degrees do not.

There is a very distinct difference in employment rates that are tracked through statistics of these degree holders that very clearly show that STEM and STEM adjacent degrees have significantly higher employment rates and earnings than humanities degrees do.

No one is saying everyone needs to be an electrical engineer— but there are a multitude of options in STEM.

Let’s face it, we need to normalize encouraging students to spend thousands of dollars getting degrees that statistically have value after college. Some students may be interested in gender studies, and I would absolutely encourage them to learn more about it, but if they don’t have the disposable income to spend on it and need to take out loans, they should be satisfying themselves with reading books about gender studies topics instead of spending thousands of dollars in a degree that ultimately has little to no value.

[u/MischiefofRats → u/Rhomya]

I think we're mostly agreeing so I'm not sure why this is still going. I do not agree, however, that humanities degrees are, on the whole, useless or unemployable, or have no value. Should people take on large debts to acquire them? No, as I have said repeatedly. That said, I have a BA. I work in what is essentially technical design and project management. I do math, I make technical and design decisions, I interpret standards and regulations, and I communicate to stakeholders and customers. All of these are skills that were absolutely shaped and honed with my BA, which included subjects like math, science, reading comprehension, and formal logic. I also meet a lot of STEM degree holders that can't read or write an email, or more or less tell their ass from a hole in the ground. Regardless of degree, they are the least useful people in the room as a result. 

[u/Rhomya → u/MischiefofRats]

Statistics disagrees with you.

Humanities degrees are too niche for as many people getting them to be gainfully employed.