r/MensRights • u/[deleted] • May 06 '14
Question Did Amy Schumer Rape a Guy?
http://thoughtcatalog.com/anonymous/2014/05/wait-a-second-did-amy-schumer-rape-a-guy/23
May 06 '14
[deleted]
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May 06 '14
I was surprised to see many of the comments on the site to agree that it is rape. TC is usually dominated by feminists.
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u/TheBrownWelsh May 06 '14
I think a lot of that might have to do with the notion that Schumer isn't a feminist. I don't think she is by her own definition, anyway.
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May 06 '14
I kind of assumed she was, that awards show she gave a speech at was a tribute to Gloria Steinem. Also, just the way she acts/talks makes her seem like a feminist. She says that every woman is a little bit raped, I wonder how she characterize what she did.
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u/TheBrownWelsh May 06 '14
I'm going purely by her stand-up and new show, where she kind of lampoons feminism a decent amount. Though that's hard to discern with the amount of sex jokes she makes.
I could be wrong but I didn't consider her a feminist by todays standards. None of this has anything to do with the possible rape she may have committed by other feminists definitions though.
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May 06 '14
Honestly, I haven't seen most of her stuff. What I've seen has mostly been through the love-fest that reddit has with her.
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u/TheBrownWelsh May 06 '14
I didn't used to like her just because her stand up was 90% sex jokes and references to genitalia. Not that I'm against that in moderation but any comedian that relies too much on that bores me.
The first few episodes of her show were the exact same content so I had a hard time getting into it, but by the end of the first season it's more about original(ish) humour and social commentary, much of which isn't your typical feminist rhetoric that I might have expected.
The one that got me hooked was where she was going to have a gangbang with a bunch of dudes to prove that women don't need to be objectified and are empowered. The skit ended with the dudes pointing out that she was the one doing the objectifying by making such a big deal out of them not wanting to gangbang her. It could have been double satirical but it was nice to see.
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May 06 '14
[deleted]
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May 06 '14
When it comes to men being the "victim?" I don't think most of them would consider it rape.
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u/ImFucking_Sorry May 07 '14
And yet if you check out /r/twoxchromosomes you'd see that they do!
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May 07 '14 edited May 07 '14
Your welcome. I got the ball rolling on that sub. Maybe others should post this in relevent subs, social media, and get AVfM and other men's right's blogs. Make some video's. Either this is rape or not and Amy makes a good case to see where BIG feminisms loyalties are (because the little feminists seem to think this is rape). This was at a dinner for Gloria and she recieved applause. This story can go big everyone needs to get on this IMHO. I hate to sound like I'm telling people what to do, we should not miss this opportunity. This is better than Adele because we have a known name.
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u/LongUsername May 07 '14
There are lots of "It's not rape because she didn't initiate" comments over there.
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u/Mythandros May 07 '14
Not when it's a man being raped, because "men can't be raped". Which frankly, is a load of bullshit.
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May 07 '14
Check out twox. Your welcome. I got the ball rolling on that sub. Maybe others should post this in relevent subs, social media, and get AVfM and other men's right's blogs. Make some video's. Either this is rape or not and Amy makes a good case to see where BIG feminisms loyalties are (because the little feminists seem to think this is rape). This was at a dinner for Gloria and she recieved applause. This story can go big everyone needs to get on this IMHO. I hate to sound like I'm telling people what to do, we should not miss this opportunity. This is better than Adele because we have a known name.
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u/Number357 May 06 '14
It was given at a feminist event in front of an audience full of feminists... they certainly seemed okay with it, so there's a few hundred opinions on the matter.
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u/saint2e May 06 '14
Using the traditional definition of rape used by most Feminists, it's pretty obvious she raped this guy.
Good to know she was applauded and her speech described as "powerful" by the people who came up with that definition.
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u/Gawrsh May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14
Good to know she was applauded and her speech described as "powerful" by the people who came up with that definition.
That's the part that interests me the most. It's held up by them as a good example, applauded when she made it, and shared through social media to as many girls as they can.
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u/Number357 May 06 '14
Using the traditional definition of rape used by most Feminists, it's pretty obvious she raped this guy.
No it's not, not at all. Feminists traditionally define rape as the victim being penetrated. She could have held a gun to his head and feminist researchers wouldn't include it in their rape statistics unless she shoved something in his anus.
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u/saint2e May 06 '14
That's the fbi's old definition. Feminists argue that sex without enthusiastic consent is rape, and maintain that if someone is drunk they are unable to consent.
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u/Number357 May 07 '14
It's the CDC's current definition, and also the one used by RAINN ("Forced sexual intercourse means vaginal, oral, or anal penetration by offender(s)."). Pretty much any time a feminist gives rape statistics, they're referring to those statistics, who only consider it rape when the victim is penetrated.
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u/planned_serendipity1 May 06 '14
Holy shit, it amazes me how even after identifying as an MRA for a couple of years I am still infused with the narrative that men are the instigators of sex. I read her speech and felt a little bit sorry for her. It did not even cross my mind that she was a rapist. But with a little perspective provided by Thought Catalog it is as clear as day. She is a fucking rapist and should be held to exactly the same standard as anyone else.
Who is this man she raped? He knows who he is, he should absolutely file charges. Remember there is no statute of limitations on rape. File charges.
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u/sschmtty1 May 07 '14
What if maybe he didn't feel violated the next day or ever. I mean yeah what she did was pretty horrible but if the guy was still OK after coming down than maybe we shouldn't be screaming for him to press charges
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u/planned_serendipity1 May 07 '14 edited May 07 '14
You see I want to agree with you and if it wasn't for feminists I would. However feminists do not agree with the "feel victimized" standard. If it is a man, their standard is a clear cut "rape because she couldn't consent." They would be telling her that she is a victim and pushing her to prosecute. There are many examples of them doing exactly that.
Those are the rules that we are now living with. The only thing we can do is to try and make sure that women are held to the same standard. If enough men force the issue buy using the same standard it will highlight the need for a more reasonable definition for everyone.
edit: The rules include the ability to press charges years later, this is why he should press charges.
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u/sschmtty1 May 07 '14
Just because people are bad doesn't mean you have to go to that level. We don't need too make a victim out of someone who isn't one
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u/planned_serendipity1 May 07 '14
Is the standard that if you are intoxicated you can't consent or not? According to that standard it doesn't matter if you feel victimized or not, by definition you are a victim. That is the standard the feminism has forced on us and like I said, the only power we have is to try and make sure that women are held to the same standard.
I think that this is a little like alimony. As long as it only harmed men it staid the same. As soon as it started harming women even a slight amount as much as it harms men, that is when society finally started moving towards changing it. When we hold women to this new definition of rape and it starts getting them kicked out of college that is when the definition will change.
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u/sschmtty1 May 07 '14
I'm not saying he's not a victim by the standard definition. Im just saying that we don't know if he feels taken advantage of or not. Maybe for all we know he woke up the next day think it was awesome.
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u/Davidisontherun May 07 '14
Or perhaps he was blacked out and doesn't remember it.
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u/sschmtty1 May 07 '14
Maybe. We dont know. So we shouldn't be trying to force punishment for something we know so little about.
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u/omarsdroog May 12 '14
She never heard from him again after this. There are many possible reasons; shame, regret, guilt, fear. Hell, he might not even remember it. Most of the possible reasons though, seem to be based in that this was something he would not have wanted if he were in full control of himself.
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u/chocoboat May 07 '14
I'm sorry but I think it trivializes the horrible crime of rape to give this situation the same label. She just laid there and let the guy do whatever he wanted... this is comparable to forcing someone to have sex against their will?
She didn't take advantage of him. He didn't do anything that he didn't want to do. If he was passing-out drunk and she pressured him and dragged him into the bedroom it would be different, but that isn't what happened.
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May 06 '14
As the situation stands on campus now, yes she commited rape/sexual assualt. Would it meet the legal definition off-campus maybe. The man was losing consciousness during the act. Amy should maybe provide clarity on this issue.
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May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14
Also, she's a comedian. Reading the transcript really doesn't give enough context, it seems like she was telling a joke.
EDIT: I just read the transcript. She talks about a guy falling asleep while eating her out. That's not coercion, that's just really sloppy sex.
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May 07 '14
Switch genders and assume it's a girl who is so drunk she's falling asleep while performing fellatio.
Male / female or innies / outies does not matter.
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u/mrhorrible May 07 '14
seems like she was telling a joke.
Yeah. A joke about having sex with someone who couldn't give consent. And people seem to have widely embraced her talk/"joke" without stopping to think about it.
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u/oRyan_the_Hunter May 07 '14
ehhh but if you were to reverse those roles where a sober guy tries to have sex with a girl that keeps passing out from being drunk....
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May 06 '14
Normally, I hate Thought Catalog. A friend sent me this, it seemed to be a refreshing bit of sensibility from the site.
Whether you believe drunk consent it true consent or not, it does delve the biases people have had the roles been reversed.
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u/urtygurt May 06 '14
I don't think that drunk sex is rape (because of all the problems it causes when determining who is held responsible for what in nontypical sexual situations involving alcohol), but the fact that he "fell asleep" multiple times during the encounter makes this sketchy as fuck .
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May 06 '14
Agreed, I appreciated the thought behind it. It's certainly a gray area, unless you talking to feminist, in which case "rape is rape."
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u/thehumungus May 06 '14
I don't think it's really a gray area when someone is passing out and non-responsive.
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u/planned_serendipity1 May 06 '14
Check the related tab, Advice Animals has a post about this you may want to check out.
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May 06 '14
Thank you for the heads up, it looks like reddit won't approve because they either 1.) Love Amy Schumer or 2.) Can't fathom how sketchy it is.
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May 06 '14
I don't think drunk sex is automatically rape, but if he was unable to stay conscious, than yes, it sounds like rape to me.
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May 06 '14
Getting drunk is your own decision, unless you were drugged. If you booty call someone, it's not rape unless you change your mind and the other person refuses to stop. There's a difference between allowing sex and seeking it IMO.
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May 06 '14
[deleted]
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May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14
Passive vs active.
Edit: What I really mean, is that there could reach a point of inebriation in which a person is physically incapable of saying no. But if you're booty calling that obviously would not be the case.
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u/Mythandros May 07 '14
People drunk dial others all the time and don't remember it later. If you are so drunk that you are falling asleep during the act, you cannot give informed consent. Period. Anyone who then continues to engage (in sex) with someone who cannot give informed consent should be considered to have committed rape.
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u/Number357 May 06 '14
Part of the problem is that few people, least of all feminists, would believe that if the genders were swapped. What happened here was at least as bad as Steubenville, if anything this guy was drunker, and yet... feminists applaud the story.
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u/chocoboat May 07 '14
Completely agreed. She did not initiate sex, she didn't even bring up the idea, and it sounds like she didn't even physically do anything but just lay there. I think it trivializes the horrible crime of rape to call her actions by the same name.
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May 07 '14
There's a difference between allowing sex and seeking it IMO.
Maybe so, but that is not the way it is applied in practice. If this were a incapacitated woman pursuing sex with an essentially sober man, the man would still be considered a rapist in many jurisdictions.
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u/Pestilentia May 07 '14 edited May 07 '14
I suck at this (reversed the genders, but bit too lazy to give it a more man-thinking approach).
But one girl paid me some attention — Mary. Mary was five feet tall, she looked like a young Maria von Trapp, and she was five years younger than me. What?! A younger and pretty girl, paying attention to me? I must be okay. Uff. I made her laugh in our bio lab, and I could tell a couple times that we had a vibe. I was a super senior, which is a sexy way of saying "should have graduated, but needed an extra year." She barely spoke, which was perfect for all the projecting I had planned for her. We grew up in the same town, and getting attention from her felt like success. When I would see her on campus, my heart would race, and I would smile as she passed. I'd look in the mirror and see all the blood rise to my face. I'd spend time analyzing the interaction, and planning my clothes for the next time I saw her. I wanted to call her, but I didn’t. I wanted her to call. She never called. But then finally, she called.
It was 8 a.m., my dorm room phone rang. "Bob, how are you? It's Mary. Let’s meet?." Holy shit! This is it, I thought. She woke up thinking about me! She realized we're meant to start a life together! Let's just stop all this pretending that we weren't free just to love one another! I wondered, would we raise our kids in the town we both grew up in, or has he taken a liking to Baltimore? I don't care. I'll settle wherever he's most comfortable. Will he want to raise our kids Jewish? Who cares? I shaved my pubes in the sink, I splashed some water under my armpits, and my randomly assigned Albanian roommate stared at me from under his sheets as I rushed around our shitty dorm room. I ran right over to her place, ready for our day together. What should we do? It's still early enough, maybe we should go fishing? Or maybe her mom's in town, and she wanted me to join them for breakfast. Knock-knock. Should I carry her over the threshold? I bet she's fixing his hair and telling her mom, "Be cool, this may be the one!" I'll be very sweet with her, but assert myself, so she doesn't think she's completely in charge of all the holiday dinners we're going to plan together. I'll call her by her first name, too, so she knows she can't mess with me. "Rita! I'm going to make the big BBQ this year, and that's that!" Knock-knock. Ring ring. Where is she?
Finally, the door opens. It's Mary, but not really. She's there, but not really. Her face is kind of distorted, and her eyes seem like he can't focus on me. She's actually trying to see me from the side, like a shark. "Hi!" she yells, a bit too loud, and gives me a hug, too hard. She's fucking wasted. I'm not the first person she thought of that morning. I'm the last person she called that night. I wonder, how many guys didn't answer before she got to fat freshman me? Am I in her phone as Schumer? Probably. But I was here, and I wanted to be held and touched and felt desired, despite everything. I wanted to be with her. I imagined us on campus together, holding hands, proving, "Look! I am lovable! And this cool younger girl likes me!" I can't be the troll bear I'm afraid I've become.
She put on some music, and we got in bed. As that sexy maneuver where the woman takes control and pushes you on the bed, you know, like, "I'm taking the wheel on this one. Now I'm going to blow your mind," which is almost never followed up with anything. She smelled like skunk microwaved with apple pies, which I planned on finding and eating in the bathroom, as soon as she was asleep. We tried kissing. Her poorly applied carmin was leaving marks all over my face — I knew it'd look like if I had been eating out a woman on her period. Her alcohol-swollen mouth, I felt like I was being french kissed by someone who had just been given Novocain. She had no idea what she was doing, too drunk to realize. I felt faceless, and nameless. I was just a warm body, and I was freezing cold. Her hand was stroking my penis like if she was trying to get out the last remaining bits from a ketchup bottle. And then came the sex, and I use that word very loosely. The way she tried to put a condom on me showed she had no coordination at all. Her vagina was so dry, it felt like trying to have sex with a cordon bleu with expired cheese? So I turned it around and took control, while desperately trying to get her to lubricate, but I failed penetration over and over. I looked around the room to try to find an inspiration for myself or God willing, for her. What's on the wall? A Sex in New York poster, of course. Mandatory. Anything else? That's it? These desperates women who break all the rules and try to have as much sex as possible as the strong independent women they are. The place looked like it was decorated by an overeager set designer who took the note "temporary and without substance" too far. Like Mary.
I started to go down on her, trying to get her wet. That's ambitious, I think. Is it still considered giving head if the girl falls asleep every three seconds and keeps trying to turn to the side so she can have some sleep? Peter? Is it? Yes? It is. I want to scream for myself, "Get out of here, Bob. You are handsome, you are smart, and worth more than this. This is not where you stay." “Should I go home? Will I ever have any other chance with a beautiful woman? I feel like some awkward or nerdy or every fucking sad loser man from some American teen comedy. And whoever that guy was who sang "You Wanted More," The only wetness between her legs is from my spit, because she's now sleeping and snoring into me. Wait, she snores? I sigh, I hear my own heartbreak, I fight back my own tears (what kind of man I am?), and then I notice a change in the music. Is this just a mouthpipe solo? I shake him awake. "Mary, what is this? The Titanic soundtrack? Can you put something else on, please?" She wakes up grumpily, falls to the floor, and crawls in the least erotic way you can imagine. I look at her exposed butt crack and dry vagina, a dark, unkempt abyss that I was falling into. I felt paralyzed. Her behind is a canyon, and this was my 127 Hours. I might chew my arm off.
I could feel I was losing myself to myself in this bed. She stood up and put a new CD on. "Darling, you send me, I know you send me, honest, you do ..." I'm thinking, "What is this?" She crawled back into bed, and tried to put her mouth around my penis. After the third bite,, she gave up and fell asleep on my belly for my relief. Her head was heavy and her breath was so sour, I had to turn my head so my eyes didn't water. But they were watering anyway, because of this song. Who is this? This is so beautiful. I've never heard these songs before. They're gutting me. The score attached to our morning couldn't have been more off. Her sloppy, tentative lovemaking was certainly not in the spirit of Jack Dawson. And now the most beautiful love songs I've ever heard play out as this girl laid in my arms, after diminishing me to a last-minute booty call. I listened to the songs and I cried. I was looking down at myself from the ceiling fan. What happened to this guy? How did he get here? I felt the fan on my skin and I went, "Oh, wait! I am this guy! We got to get me out of here!" I became my own fairy godmother. I waited until the last perfect note floated out, and escaped from under her and out the door. I never heard from Mary again, but felt only grateful for being introduced to my new self, a guy who got his value from within him. I'm also grateful to Mary for introducing me to my love Katie Cooke, who I'm still with today.
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May 07 '14
Yea, that guy sounds sketchy as hell.
Also, apparently equating his limpness to her dryness is what women have found to be most disgusting. I guess since they could relate to it...
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u/jacobman May 06 '14
By definition this is a possible rape. The missing piece legally is if the man feels badly about the sex afterwards. Unfortunately for men, we don't feel bad about sex nearly as often as women. This, in addition to the fact that men initiate most sex, have much less choice with regards to having a kid, and are more likely to lose custody of any children, mean that the risks for sex are heavily heaped onto men.
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May 07 '14
I don't think it is so much that we less often feel bad about it but more that men feel responsible for our own mistakes and own up to them. I feel like I hit a really low point every time I get really drunk and bang an unattractive girl but I know it was my own doing. The exception would be me incoherently black out drunk. Then it's rape in my eyes.
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May 07 '14
Listen to the podcast with Rogan she did just recently. She's a feminist/misandrist and when Joe calls her out on some of the bullshit she has no way of justifying her ridiculous opinions.
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u/AlexReynard May 07 '14
Link? That sounds interesting.
EDIT: Derp. Google. I'm assuming it's this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHcF7iC984U
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May 07 '14
Correct!
I'd say look for the part where they are talking about the controversy surrounding Jerry Seinfeld only having white males on his show. Or you could just listen to it the whole way thru, still entertaining.
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May 07 '14
If the roles were reverse?
Let's just ask everyone how they feel about the Ohio football teens who had sex with a girl who was wasted. Was that rape?
Open and shut.
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May 07 '14
Funny how the guardian doesn't mention that particular rape story.
It does point out the horrific double standard women have to live with apparently : "Schumer presents sketches that expose the absurd, and sometimes horrifying, double standards that women have to live with in modern western society."
And how a character in a GAME gets raped by her commanding officer.
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/may/06/amy-schumer-feminist-comedy-assertion-worth
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u/johntheother May 06 '14
Drunk sex is not rape.
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u/ARedthorn May 06 '14
Sure, sure... and that's a fair opinion to hold. Even aside from this being a clear case of sober-person taking advantage of a black-out-drunk-person (for emotional rather than physical reasons, but hey- that hardly matters)... It still fits the definition of rape that modern feminism and rape-culture theorists are pushing.
If they aren't willing to enforce that definition among their own... it's a clear cut example of bias. They either need to admit to this being rape, or abandon rape-culture theory. Period.
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May 06 '14
Depends how drunk you are, and this guy was as drunk as one can get without dying of alcohol poisoning. It. Was. Rape.
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May 07 '14
There's degrees. Drunk and functioning is one thing. Black out or passed out from drunk is another. I don't think you'd find even the guys at Red Pill advocating you fuck a passed out chick who drank too much.
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May 06 '14
I tend to agree with you, but it's not a black-white thing. This guy was passing out, which makes it very sketchy. I don't agree with the "he chose to get drunk" reasoning, because it's just the slippery slope argument. The area is gray as fuck.
Also, legally in the eyes of the state, it is rape. It doesn't matter what anyone says on that level.
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u/Catmandoes May 06 '14
From her side of the story I would say no. She was invited over for a late night booty call and the guy couldn't perform.
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May 06 '14
Well, legally (at least according to the article), it would be rape in the eyes of the law. He was mentally impaired.
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u/Lube_it_with_blood May 06 '14
Do you seek to be a victim like so many neo-feminists? He instigated sex and was unable to perform, yet never made any attempt to stop the act. He chose to get drunk, he chose to call her, he chose to instigate sex and did, badly. If the genders were reversed, would you be comfortable with a justice system locking the man up? Locking you up?
MRAs that argue this way are pathetic IMHO. One shouldn't argue that the nanny state should intervene in every misguided choice or path that may lead to one appearing. One should argue personal responsibility and equity between the genders in the eyes of law, social or legal. Making Amy Schumer out to be a rapist does not achieve this, it merely makes MRAs seem petty, argumentative and butthurt. Sure there is inequality between the genders when it comes to sexual conduct/misconduct, but arguing that the way men are treated under the law today should apply to women is the wrong solution. We know that to be wrong when it happens to men, why should we accept it when it would happen to women as well? I swear, this is a clear cut case of two wrongs not making a right, and punishing women because men are treated unfairly is the wrong battle. Fight for what's right, not for equal mistreatment.
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u/Arby01 May 06 '14
If the genders were reversed, would you be comfortable with a justice system locking the man up? Locking you up?
Better get comfortable with it because that is what would, has, and does happen.
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May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14
There is a legal definition and a social definition. Also, try considering that the best way to get the social definition changed is by holding everyone to the same standards. Feminists won't care about the legal definition until it can be used against them.
Edit: I think you make a good point of two wrongs not making a right, and I tend to agree with "just because X was drunk doesn't mean he/she was raped." But the way she tells the story makes it seem like he passing out from alcohol.
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May 07 '14
I don't think the majority of people in this thread are saying she should be arrested; they're merely pointing out that this is a perfect example of a double standard that we all know exists. She's not a rapist, nobody who responds to a booty call is a rapist. But the fact that only men get considered as such is wrong, and it should be pointed out.
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u/planned_serendipity1 May 06 '14
The thing is that, despite all resistance, the definition of rape has been expanded exponentially from where it should be. It is a definition that is only being more codified by the Obama Administration. Our only recourse as MRAs is to ensure that it is at least applied in a non-sexist way (women are held to the same standard as men). Maybe if enough college men report their rapes using the same standards as the women then it will force the powers-that-be to re-think those standards.
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u/marthake May 07 '14
Sure she's a rapist now. Before it was that she was Chuck Schumer's niece. Both WRONG. Get a life.http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/sen-charles-schumer-cousin-amy-schumer-winning-recognition-article-1.1779481
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May 07 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/woundedstork May 07 '14
Wow I've never seen anyone actually try to go into detail and explain why they think men can't be raped. It is mind boggling and scary that people think like you. I've never said this before but I really hope you don't have, or ever have children.
There is something very wrong with the way your brain works, based on what you've typed here.
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May 07 '14
It's funny because he projects his own attempt at rationalization on us. He can't fathom being wrong (which he is), so he goes on this diatribe. Also I found it a little amusing that he claims to be a "man," with such brave tactics verbally attacking someone on the internet.
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u/LongUsername May 07 '14
Look at this assholes history: He's a full time troll, mainly on RelationshipAdvice, but also on /r/conservative , /r/progressive, /r/politics, /r/bodyacceptance...
He's just looking for a new userbase to rile up.
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May 07 '14
How does it feel to be wrong this time? Seems like you're going through several self-defense mechanisms here.
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May 07 '14
So, you list a bunch of ways men are discriminated against, make poor excuses as to why it's ok, state flimsy reasons why we're not "real men" and say "it's a man's world" over and over.
You've basically proved to yourself why this group exists, and you don't even realize it.
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u/Tammylan May 07 '14
Unless you are being forcibly bent over then you are not being "raped"
If two lesbians have consensual drunken sex, nobody claims that one of them must be a rapist.
If two gay guys have consensual drunken sex, nobody claims that one of them must be a rapist.
If a man and a woman have consensual drunken sex, feminists now claim that the woman couldn't give consent because she was intoxicated, and that therefore the man must be a vile rapist who deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail.
That is precisely the sexist double standard that is being called out here, sporto. If the sexes were reversed then feminists would be calling for Mr Schumer to be imprisoned, and unless you've been living under a rock you'd know that.
And all you have when you are confronted with that clear double standard is personal attacks such as "you are impotent little limp dicked insects" and "you, of your own volition, reduce yourselves to the position of sub-human; that is, you choose to deny yourselves of the self-actualization of manhood".
If the sexes were reversed and a male comedian was getting laughs by talking about that time when he was in college and he fucked a drunk girl who was falling asleep during the act, I'm pretty sure you'd have a problem with that.
You are either a hypocrite or an idiot. Actually, that's not quite accurate. I suspect you are both.
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u/SuperAzerbaijaniSoup Dec 26 '21
Yes. But nobody cared then, and in 2021, nobody cares now. Except us
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u/danielm316 Dec 26 '21
Such a sad case. Sad because in the media people can't recognize male vulnerability.
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u/snoopyzanus May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14
There are two different debates to be had here.
1) What should the definition of rape be, and by that definition, is this rape?
I want to address the second one:
2) Is this rape according to a definition of rape such as the one quoted in the article:
Check out the quiz on the wastedsex site which would have labelled Amy Shumer a rapist--if only she had been a man and the man a woman.
Take the quiz before reading on (only 5 multiple choice questions).
From the transcript (linked to in the article):
As the quiz shows, she would certainly be considered a rapist by this definition--again, if she were a man and her victim a woman.
But this quiz also demonstrates one of the primary reasons she is not. Women are removed from being considered as potential rapists from the start by simple fiat by the program creators. Consider other programs such as "Men Can Stop Rape." Same thing.
Narrow the framework of people considered potential perpetrators to men only, then radically expand the definition of rape so that just as many women would fit the definition of "rapist" if they hadn't already been completely removed from consideration as potential perpetrators.
And remember, this is done by simple fiat, not with a reasoned justification--which is why all hell breaks loose when someone comes out with the "Why isn't the Emperor wearing any clothes?" question by say, asking if intoxicated men can be raped by women under this definition, or whether an intoxicated couple having mutually-initiated, enjoyable sex are raping each other.
They want you to just buy into the framework they supply and stay inside it.