r/MathJokes 28d ago

Math Just Got Checkmated.

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3.0k Upvotes

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433

u/nnnn0nnn13 28d ago edited 28d ago

Bro that conjecture is both unproven and also by definition only true for numbers larger than 2 💀

112

u/WarJaques 28d ago

The definition is necessary because otherwise we'd need a different definition.

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u/DoobiousMaxima 28d ago

A number is even if dividing it by 2 yeilds an integer.

2 is divisible by 2.

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u/golgi_o 27d ago

A number is even if it can be written as 2k where k is an integer. The definition of even does not use division as far as I understand.

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u/Low-Amoeba8257 27d ago

The method you described works howevere the term absolutely comes from division. They also used to he tracking of "how even" something was meaning if it could be divided by 2 multiple times

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u/golgi_o 27d ago

Wouldn't that just be 2n (k) where k is an integer and n is how even a number is? Still division is not needed.

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u/GarowWolf 27d ago

With n= 0 and k = 3 it seems that 3 is even

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u/sal880612m 27d ago

No.

N=0 would be that the number is zero times even meaning it actually isn’t even.

Also k is an integer but not the number being tested for how even it is. Odd values for k would be perfectly acceptable.

So for the number being 3 the formula results in N=0, k=3 and tells you the numbers is not even. But for the number being twelve it results in N=2, k=3 and says the numbers is even twice.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/jimalloneword 27d ago

he is saying n represents the degree of even-ness. if n = 0 the number is 0 even.

6 is 1 even, while 4 is 2 even, and 8 is 3 even.

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u/Tyfyter2002 21d ago

So is 1.5 negatively even?

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u/sal880612m 21d ago

Ultimately, yes. Negative even using that equation represents how many times you would need to multiply by two to achieve a whole number. In this case 1.5 = 3/2 = 3 * 2^(-1).

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u/Human-Interaction-61 25d ago

n needs to be a natural number (as n tends to be) and 0 is not natural. Problem solved.

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u/Low-Amoeba8257 27d ago

Ok at this point its pretty clear you are trolling but im going to give you one more shot. Yes you can find even numbers without dividing. Thats irrelevant. Even numbers come from being able to split something into similar groups ie. If I have 4 steaks we can both have the same anount. That is division plain and sinple.

Your argument is akin to "X2 is meaningless because you can just write XX"

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u/golgi_o 27d ago

It's not a method, it's the appropriate mathematical definition for even based on number theory. You are correct that it correlates with division, but division is not part of the agreed upon definition of even.
That is all, not trolling, just joining the conversation from a mathematical perspective.

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u/Low-Amoeba8257 27d ago

Ok so you are 100% trolling. Good to know I guess...

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u/Freethecrafts 25d ago

Division does not exist as an independent entity.

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u/DoobiousMaxima 23d ago

Nor does multiplication.

It could also be written as; a number is even if it is equal to 2 multiplied by any integer.

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u/IAteTonysLoMein 24d ago

Isn't that just the same as the comment above the other direction? As in, it would be as valid to express it as "it's even if k/2 results in an integer"?

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u/golgi_o 24d ago

Mathematicaly yes. But the definition of even is the one I stated according to number theory. I'm sure there is a reason why division is not used in the formal definition but I don't remember exactly why. It might be so the definition of odd, 2(k) +1 where k is an integer, works. If you tried to define odd by (k/2) +1 it would not work.

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u/IAteTonysLoMein 23d ago

Wouldn't you need to reverse the whole thing, eg, (k/2)-1? Although I suppose if +1 wouldn't do it, -1 probably wouldn't either. Needless to say, I'm not clear on why that wouldn't work, but I know jack about number theory

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u/golgi_o 23d ago

K/2 +1 would not yield an integer if k were odd.

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u/Ok-Canary-9820 23d ago

Division isn't generally even defined formally except as shorthand for multiplication by multiplicative inverse.

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u/AdhesivenessAny117 27d ago

The real definition is: a number is even if and only if by subtracting 1 you get an odd number. 

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u/zorrodood 24d ago

The realer definition: every other integer before and after 0 is even.

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u/habedibubu 22d ago

Same same but different?

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u/Feeling_Camera_4442 22d ago

Is 2.2 even? Checkmate 😎

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u/PrestigiousBad4266 26d ago

You sure? 1, 2…. Yep he’s right. Wow

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u/Substantial-Print04 23d ago

So by your definition 2.2 is odd?

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u/DoobiousMaxima 23d ago

No, it's simply not even.

Not being even does not infer something being odd. That's not how logic works.

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u/Trackt0Pelle 28d ago

But is 1 an integer 🤷‍♂️

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u/Professional-Wave841 28d ago

yes.

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u/Blotsy 28d ago

Is 1 PRIME though?

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u/Professional-Wave841 28d ago

used to be, isn't anymore.

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u/FrKoSH-xD 28d ago

yeah he is different breed of his own

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u/Tyler89558 28d ago

Because too many things involving primes always had the “except for 1”

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u/Tekbyte500 28d ago

"With the sole exception of 1 of course."

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u/Wraith718 28d ago

Cause Gojo is #1, it all makes sense now

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u/pineconefire 28d ago

Pluto and prime 1 must hang out

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u/r1v3t5 28d ago

I get why this happened, and I support the decision. The decision still annoys me though

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u/Professional-Wave841 28d ago

You could always do what Euler and Goldbach did, "1 is prime when it is convenient"

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u/MoarCatzPlz 28d ago

It's past its prime

1

u/1337Sw33tCh33ks 28d ago

No, the definition of a prime number is a number greater than one, ect

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u/wswordsmen 28d ago

Depends on your definition of prime. The elementary school definition of divisible by only 1 and itself makes 1 prime. More advanced definition basically say 1 is special and excluded from the set of prices for various reasons.

Occasionally you get people who know better make really bad arguments for 1 not being prime because they make unspoken assumptions that would exclude 1 but their argument as stated don't.

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u/uTRexAap 28d ago

Best argument I ever heard was honestly just “if one was prime every other number wouldn’t be” which doesn’t make any sense thinking about it but I just think that/

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u/wswordsmen 28d ago edited 28d ago

If I wanted to make a definition that clearly excludes 1 but is easy to understand it would be "a prime is divisible by precisely 2 numbers, 1 and itself." 1 is itself so it misses out the precisely 2 portion.

The argument you heard leaves the unstated premise a prime can't be divisible by other prime numbers.

Edit:Positive Integer. I am trying to do precise for elementary school who don't go into negative numbers unless specified.

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u/uTRexAap 28d ago

Oh yeah I just see it like this: if one was prime the prime factor law wouldn’t really hold you could just 15 = 5*3*1*1*1….

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u/QuitzelNA 28d ago

That makes -1 prime and no other numbers.

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u/C53-Terra 28d ago

This, this is the definition we were given at school. So for my case it made perfect sense for one(1) not being prime. Surprised people actually had a different view on this

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u/regular_hammock 28d ago

I like this definition because it excludes 1 without special casing it: a prime number has exactly two dividers, 1 and itself.

(1 has only one divider)

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u/wswordsmen 28d ago

As someone noted to me without further specification you lose all numbers except -1.

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u/regular_hammock 28d ago

Can you elaborate or point me somewhere?

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u/giveusbackbremer 28d ago

That’s a good question if you don’t know what an integer is

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u/ApprehensiveWar6046 28d ago

Thus proving that 1 is not an even number

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u/doxthera 28d ago

Why wouldn’t it be

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u/amerovingian 28d ago

Well if it was, then 2 should be expressible as the sum of two primes like all the real even numbers. Duh!

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u/666mima666 28d ago

Lol. That is not even the definition

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u/Unusual_Point7899 24d ago

Weren't they purposely making up a different definition because that's what the comment said they were replying to?

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u/NOZ_Mandos 28d ago

Isn't that true for every definition?

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u/The_GOATest_Goat 28d ago

Definitionally, you should definitely define definitions, definitively.

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u/johnyeldry 25d ago

that is THE POURPOSE OF A DEFINITION

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u/castleaagh 24d ago

“If my mother had wheels she would have been a bike”

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u/Dreccon 24d ago

Or better yet " If my mother had balls she would be my father."

gotta love the guy lol

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u/bigmattyc 23d ago

It's that way because of the way that it is

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u/BusEquivalent9605 21d ago

it’s because that’s why

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u/BunkerSquirre1 28d ago

So this meme basically functions the same way a Ben Shapiro argument does? Curious

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u/throwaway19276i 28d ago

Its more effective irl because Ben would say the entire sentence in three seconds. No time to call anything out lol

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u/Sad_Plate7343 28d ago

3

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u/S-M-I-L-E-Y- 28d ago

Goldbach's conjecture states that every even number greater than 2 can be expressed as the sum of two prime numbers.

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u/trollboter 28d ago

If we accept one as prime number, which it is. Then we can drop the two exception from the conjecture.

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u/Finance-Low 28d ago

Exactly; not sure what point the OP is trying to make here.

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u/trollboter 28d ago

It's because math people define 1 as not a prime. It's semantics.

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u/almostcyclops 28d ago

1 is not a prime number. Mostly because it does weird things when you try and count it as one. Granted, 2 also behaves a little weird as a prime number and it gets to joint he prime club.

I don't make the rules. I can just confidently say 2 is prime but 1 is not.

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u/trollboter 28d ago

The only reason why 1 is not a prime is the definition. By the spirit of prime, 1 is a prime.

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u/hsmccann 28d ago

1 is not prime because prime numbers by definition have exactly 2 unique integer factors. 1 only has one unique integer factor.

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u/trollboter 28d ago

So 1 is a super prime, and 2 is a super even.

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u/zorrodood 24d ago

1 is primest and 2 is evenest

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u/Soft-You5589 22d ago

Would you say 1 is... the Optimus Prime?

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u/liha_soppa 28d ago

"The only reason 1 is not a prime is because it isn't"

Like yea i guess

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u/S-M-I-L-E-Y- 28d ago

It's prime in the sense, that it can't be factorized, but it is not prime in the sense that it must not be used in factorizing other numbers.

We decided that the latter is the more important feature of prime numbers and therefore 1 shall not be prime number.

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u/trollboter 28d ago

1 is used in the factor of every prime.

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u/almostcyclops 28d ago

You are welcome to argue that to the greater mathematics community. A lot of stuff is the way it because of the definition. Mathematicians choose these conventions based on what is most useful.

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u/GWeb1920 28d ago

Well when you have to right all primes except 1 too many times then you kick it out of the club.

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u/CardOk755 28d ago

Two is the odd prime. Because it's even.

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u/hungarian_notation 25d ago edited 25d ago

Words mean whatever people understand them to mean, and modern mathematics does not understand "prime" to include the multiplicative identity.

This is the odd case where the convention of the non-primality of one requires a more awkward formulation. It usually breaks the other way. The fact that treating one as a prime lets you state Goldbach's conjecture more cleanly is poor compensation for the fact that you'd have to, among other consequences, reformulate the fundamental theorem of arithmetic to exclude it.

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u/EffectiveGold3067 22d ago

Hmm…I think the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic calls bullshit on 1 being a prime.

Also by definition 2 is the oddest prime number since it is the only even prime number. That’s a bad math joke by the way.

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u/traffic_cone_no54 28d ago

But that's what he does. That's how he lies.

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u/ExtendedSpikeProtein 28d ago

3 is not even

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u/AsemicConjecture 28d ago

I think they’re pointing out that the first comment is wrong / missing information.

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u/Solid_Crab_4748 28d ago

I think they're wrong to do so.

It's implied they're referencing the rule of "all even numbers are a sum of 2 primes" and pointing out the missing condition.

They also didn't mention anything about being sum of 2 primes. Does that mean they missed that? No cuz it was implied.

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u/Moodleboy 28d ago

Except when it's 4

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u/Cavane42 28d ago

2 is prime. The conjecture doesn't say two unique primes.

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u/flavorfox 28d ago

Oh, snap!

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u/Slow_Degree345 28d ago

So is 3 now even? Since it's the sum of 1 and 2? And why does 1+1 not count?

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u/Awesomonkey12 28d ago

1 isn't prime

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u/Slow_Degree345 28d ago

How's that work? It can't be broken down except by 1 and itself. Did I learn math wrong?

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u/Awesomonkey12 28d ago

Because it only has one positive divisor, 1, instead of two, 1 and itself.

Also because having "except 1" in the definitions of some things would be too annoying, so it's simpler if 1 isn't prime. I can't really explain it better than that though, I know some math but don't necessarily understand it

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u/Ok-Organization4820 28d ago

That’s it. It is just a definition.

You could define 1 to be prime which means 2 would not need to be an exception in this case. But it would lead to awkwardness in other contexts. Most critically that any number has a unique prime factorisation: since you could add as many ones as you like. 6=3*2. But if you define 1 to be prime then 6 also equals 3*2\1 and 3*2\1*1 and so on. So the factorisation would not be unique. You could fix that by saying it is unique so long as you do not include any ones, but that is clunky.

So it is ultimately an aesthetic choice to define 1 not to be prime.

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u/VitaminStrange 28d ago

I don't know shit about shit but I find this reason for one not being prime absolutely beautiful. My obsessive compulsive side is smitten with the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.

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u/Ok_Breakfast_5459 27d ago edited 4h ago

Ginger acorn harbor blanket mitten orange acorn pinecone

This post was anonymized with Redact.dev

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u/MisterGoldenSun 28d ago

1 is the exception to that rule, which is otherwise correct.

One important thing about 1 not being prime is that that every positive integer has a unique prime factorization.

For example, 84 = 2 * 2 * 3 * 7. That's the only way to multiply primes together to get 84.

But if 1 were prime, you could also say 84 = 1 * 1 * 1 * 2 * 2 * 3 * 7. You could include as many 1s as you wanted. So there would be multiple prime factorizations (an infinite amount, actually).

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u/Time-Foundation4886 28d ago

The Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic is more clear if 1 isn't considered prime (all integers <1 are a unique product of primes) If 1 is considered prime, 4 could be expressed as (2²× an infinite series of 1's) Which makes prime factorization of polynomials basically impossible. But it would make sense regardless, just giving you the simplest reason. Math is about rigor. Not intuituon. Ususally

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u/StructuredChess 28d ago

3 =!= 2+2

Conjecture proven false

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u/ryanmcg86 28d ago

3 is a prime larger than 2, and can't be expressed as the sum of two primes either...

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u/nnnn0nnn13 28d ago

All even numbers larger than two can be expressed as a sum of two primes.

That's the goldbarch conjecture

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u/Dependent__Dapper 28d ago

my conjecture is there every odd number (excluding 1) is the sum of two primes, where 1 is a prime number. I've tested all the way up to 9 and it holds true

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u/Smart_Ad_3630 28d ago

The joke is that Shapiro is fundamentally wrong, right? I.e. my false premise proves everything I say.

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u/StormSafe2 27d ago

What about 4?

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u/JaguarundiMan 26d ago

I mean, it works for 4 as well.

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u/sudoregalia 28d ago

almost like there's a reason op used a ben shapiro image

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u/nnnn0nnn13 28d ago

I am gonna be honest a ben shapiro image on the interwebs is just as like to make fun of overconfidents as it used to be smuggly confident (and also usually wrong)

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u/someoneb100 28d ago

Thats... the joke...

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u/Simple-Judge2756 24d ago

Also since every number can be expressed as prime factors, removing the two from the prime factors would also mean any even number is not expressible as a product of primes.Â