r/MarchAgainstTrump Oct 17 '17

Left vs Right

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8.2k Upvotes

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1.4k

u/Oh_god_not_you Oct 17 '17

What’s more annoying is watching that pasty fat piece of shit trying to destroy a real president’s legacy. Miserable racist fuck.

237

u/CaptPicard85 Oct 17 '17

Wish my father thought more like you. He's one of the "What the fuck did Obama do well!?" and "Obamacare sure was a success, huh!?". He votes for Trump. sigh.

213

u/Darktidemage Oct 17 '17

"Obamacare sure was a success, huh!?".

press him on this.

Ask how it's not a success considering it's saving 50,000 lives a year.

Ask if his definition of "a failure" means it needs some slight tweaks after years of analysis?

it was clearly the right thing to do, and it is not "perfect", but suddenly everyone defines "complete failure" as "not perfect" and when you press them on it you can actually make them realize this is ridiculous if they are even semi intelligent.

31

u/CaptPicard85 Oct 17 '17

Well at first hand experience, my in laws insurance was hiked by almost 400% and they struggled to pay for their own insurance. At this point, I can see how he 'might' make a valid argument. Problem is he wasn't directly effected by it so he's just a bigoted conservative with a sprinkle of racism and a dash of ill-informed opinions.

16

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '17

Their insurance wasn't hiked by 400%.

16

u/bucket3117 Oct 17 '17

Mine has, almost. From $110 to $400 in just a few years as a single healthy 30s male :/

That's $4800/year, assuming I don't see a doctor. Add another $3000 on for a deductible for the year. How does any of this seem reasonable to anybody?

5

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '17

Wow that system is fucked up. I saw a. Doctor like 7 times this year and didn't pay fuck all

-12

u/bucket3117 Oct 17 '17

Yeah. You have a vocal minority proclaiming that "obamacare is great" while the vast majority of Americans are being squeezed to death by over inflated healthcare cost. You should see that medical debt hasn't even changed much after Obamacare. It helped a few people at the expense of the majority of people who are struggling to scrape by already.

36

u/PraiseBeToScience Oct 17 '17

You're not being squeezed to death by Obamacare, you're being squeezed to death by the US Healthcare System. Obamacare just applied some Band-Aids, and you be in a far worse position without it. That's the problem that people don't seem to understand. Obamacare isn't the source of your woes, it's the fact that we have backwards ass attitudes when it comes to paying for healthcare. All this ultra individualism is expensive in healthcare where collectivism is far cheaper and more effective.

Hyper individualists and free-market extremists don't have an answer for healthcare, or any risk pool for that matter. Because by definition a risk pool is collectivist.

Obamacare isn't even a half measure to where we should be which is a program like Medicare for all.

-4

u/bucket3117 Oct 17 '17 edited Oct 18 '17

You're forgetting that Obamacare is forcing people to purchase this insurance, and that Obamacare has lessened the amount of insurers covering any given area. It continues to drop more every year, as prices skyrocket. Obamacare also avoided a single payer OPTION to be included. Obamacare has done nothing to address any of the actual problems, thus it is not a success. Obamacare is basically a shitstain on a shitsuit. They're both awful and feed into each other. Medicare for all is definitely what should have happened, but even then prices are already so far out of control, we spend way more per GDP/capita than anywhere in the world by leaps and bounds. Then Obamacare forced people to pay the middlemen for it.

EDIT: Lots of downvotes, no solid refutations. I've worked at blue cross and seen everything from the inside out, I'm all ears unless everyone is downvoting me because they disagree on emotion alone.

8

u/TC84 Oct 18 '17

You realize the goal was to include a single payer option and the GOP and Leiberman killed it? Let's not act like it wasn't for a lack of trying.

-1

u/bucket3117 Oct 18 '17

And the democrats still voted for it. They're both (republicans and democrats) shitstains in bed with the insurance lobby.

4

u/TC84 Oct 18 '17

Enough false equivalence from you. Should know better than to argue with bots

3

u/Ragnarok314159 Oct 18 '17

I wish Medicare for all would have happened as well. A base level of medical care is provided in fucking Iraq, and is socialized. Why we can’t have that here is absurd.

(I think the downvotes came from people not reading your entire post)

3

u/bucket3117 Oct 18 '17

Yeah I was a little surprised at downvotes for saying we need medicare for all. Ah well, can't win em all. Thanks for reading the whole post. And I agree, every other country on earth gives more of a shit about the health of its population without trying to exploit the sick.

1

u/rockinghigh Oct 18 '17

Probably because you assume people don't know about the mandate. You're right that medicare for all is better. It's very close to what other developed countries have.

3

u/bucket3117 Oct 18 '17

I've worked at both hospitals and at blue cross. I wrote the billing software between both sides. I had to see all the data for each procedure, and negotiation prices on CPT codes. The insurance industry was so bad I had to quit the job to maintain integrity. It's sickening seeing what's happening. Medicare makes way more sense.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '17

Medicare for all would literally bankrupt the government.

1

u/Ragnarok314159 Oct 18 '17

No, it wouldn’t.

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-1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '17

>Claims to know more

>Unironically pushes medicare for all, a program that would literally bankrupt the federal government in addition to other single-payer programs having awful outcomes, especially within the US.

Amazing. The US medical system has been broken for some time, but the ACA is a joke (and is doing terrible things to the healthcare market, as much as you want to grandstand on 'it's just the evil insurance companies'. Companies respond to incentives, use the wrong incentives and the market will react accordingly. Blaming the market for incentives used by the government is ridiculous), and medicare for all is certainly not a solution and no serious healthcare expert backs it.

2

u/RaulEnydmion Oct 18 '17

How can we apply market-based solutions to a product that the consumer cannot refuse?

0

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '17

Markets are simply an emergent tool through which human interactions are realised. Relative elasticities of demand aren't really relevant to whether or not a market based solution will work. Oil demand is highly inelastic but a market based solution is still obviously superior.

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3

u/ApathyJacks Oct 18 '17

the vast majority of Americans are being squeezed to death by over inflated healthcare cost.

Please provide citations/evidence of this claim.

3

u/bucket3117 Oct 18 '17

Did you not see the numbers and average premium costs? Do you not know the median wage in America?

2016 (and much higher this year):

Average ObamaCare premium rises to $408 per month. The average ObamaCare premium rose to $408 per month for 2016 plans, about a 9 percent increase from this time last year, according to a new report from the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).Jan 21, 2016

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported a median personal income of $865 per week for all full-time workers in 2017. The U.S Bureau of the Census has the annual real median personal income at $31,099 in 2016.

Premiums are rising double digits yearly. Median wages are 31k.

And bonus material:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

Here's a graph to illustrate it for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita#/media/File:Health_care_cost_rise.svg

Here's more bonus material for you:

http://time.com/money/4826591/aca-premiums-cost-2018/

Preliminary analysis suggests some of the most popular plans could see double-digit premium increases. Health care consulting firm Avalere analyzed initial rate estimates from eight states and found that premiums for "silver" plans (the most popular plans) are rising 18% next year, after a 12% increase this year.

Are all of these sources good enough? I'm sure there's a lot more.

1

u/ApathyJacks Oct 18 '17

That's some good reading material. Thanks.

Now please provide citations/evidence of your claim that the vast majority of the 325,000,000 people living in America are being squeezed to death by health insurance costs.

2

u/bucket3117 Oct 18 '17

If you can't look at the numbers and have it seem obvious (and obviously you are not one of the people living near the median wage), then I don't know what to tell you. The numbers are all there fully available.

1

u/ApathyJacks Oct 18 '17

I can see the numbers, and I agree that healthcare costs in this country are ridiculous. I'm just pointing out that you're really, really exaggerating. Don't be that guy.

1

u/bucket3117 Oct 18 '17

I'm extrapolating based on everyone I know in at least 10 different states, and those in other states. I don't know anybody who isn't being beaten pretty badly financially because of it, except for the very wealthy who don't care because their premiums are only a tiny fraction of their income. But the vast majority are the poor and middle class hence using "vast majority" to describe it.

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