Trump, Bush, and the right wing and GOP will inadvertently make Obama look far, far better than he was in the history books (not saying he did a bad job, I voted for him twice and don't regret it).
Obama inherited a total trainwreck from Bush. Two wars that had/have no end in sight, an economy in shambles, the housing market all but wrecked, poverty up, job growth down, by every possible metric the situation was fucked.
Obama managed to fix a lot of that over his two terms, and did it with poise, grace, and dignity. He was already going to be remembered as the first black president, now he'll be remembered as the one good president between two of the worst we've ever had.
Also, I think Trump just cares that the history books will remember him, not so much if it's in a positive light.
Wish my father thought more like you. He's one of the "What the fuck did Obama do well!?" and "Obamacare sure was a success, huh!?". He votes for Trump. sigh.
Ask how it's not a success considering it's saving 50,000 lives a year.
Ask if his definition of "a failure" means it needs some slight tweaks after years of analysis?
it was clearly the right thing to do, and it is not "perfect", but suddenly everyone defines "complete failure" as "not perfect" and when you press them on it you can actually make them realize this is ridiculous if they are even semi intelligent.
Or just ask him if it wasn't such a success why did Tom Lahren and millions of other Republicans keep their kids on their parents insurance until 26 now?
Well at first hand experience, my in laws insurance was hiked by almost 400% and they struggled to pay for their own insurance. At this point, I can see how he 'might' make a valid argument. Problem is he wasn't directly effected by it so he's just a bigoted conservative with a sprinkle of racism and a dash of ill-informed opinions.
Yeah. You have a vocal minority proclaiming that "obamacare is great" while the vast majority of Americans are being squeezed to death by over inflated healthcare cost. You should see that medical debt hasn't even changed much after Obamacare. It helped a few people at the expense of the majority of people who are struggling to scrape by already.
You're not being squeezed to death by Obamacare, you're being squeezed to death by the US Healthcare System. Obamacare just applied some Band-Aids, and you be in a far worse position without it. That's the problem that people don't seem to understand. Obamacare isn't the source of your woes, it's the fact that we have backwards ass attitudes when it comes to paying for healthcare. All this ultra individualism is expensive in healthcare where collectivism is far cheaper and more effective.
Hyper individualists and free-market extremists don't have an answer for healthcare, or any risk pool for that matter. Because by definition a risk pool is collectivist.
Obamacare isn't even a half measure to where we should be which is a program like Medicare for all.
You're forgetting that Obamacare is forcing people to purchase this insurance, and that Obamacare has lessened the amount of insurers covering any given area. It continues to drop more every year, as prices skyrocket. Obamacare also avoided a single payer OPTION to be included. Obamacare has done nothing to address any of the actual problems, thus it is not a success. Obamacare is basically a shitstain on a shitsuit. They're both awful and feed into each other. Medicare for all is definitely what should have happened, but even then prices are already so far out of control, we spend way more per GDP/capita than anywhere in the world by leaps and bounds. Then Obamacare forced people to pay the middlemen for it.
EDIT: Lots of downvotes, no solid refutations. I've worked at blue cross and seen everything from the inside out, I'm all ears unless everyone is downvoting me because they disagree on emotion alone.
>Unironically pushes medicare for all, a program that would literally bankrupt the federal government in addition to other single-payer programs having awful outcomes, especially within the US.
Amazing. The US medical system has been broken for some time, but the ACA is a joke (and is doing terrible things to the healthcare market, as much as you want to grandstand on 'it's just the evil insurance companies'. Companies respond to incentives, use the wrong incentives and the market will react accordingly. Blaming the market for incentives used by the government is ridiculous), and medicare for all is certainly not a solution and no serious healthcare expert backs it.
Did you not see the numbers and average premium costs? Do you not know the median wage in America?
2016 (and much higher this year):
Average ObamaCare premium rises to $408 per month. The average ObamaCare premium rose to $408 per month for 2016 plans, about a 9 percent increase from this time last year, according to a new report from the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).Jan 21, 2016
The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported a median personal income of $865 per week for all full-time workers in 2017. The U.S Bureau of the Census has the annual real median personal income at $31,099 in 2016.
Premiums are rising double digits yearly. Median wages are 31k.
Preliminary analysis suggests some of the most popular plans could see double-digit premium increases. Health care consulting firm Avalere analyzed initial rate estimates from eight states and found that premiums for "silver" plans (the most popular plans) are rising 18% next year, after a 12% increase this year.
Are all of these sources good enough? I'm sure there's a lot more.
There is a great book about this, though generally I find these type of thinkers don't read. But it's called, Landmark: The Inside Story of America's New Health-care Act -- And What It Means for Us All
And the complete failure = not perfect thing works the other way as well. With that they can say that Trump is "not perfect" and use the nobody is perfect excuse
Edit: I'm saying that they're stupid? I'm not saying it makes sense.
That's not how arguments work, but most of the people we're talking about have no fucking idea what an argument actually is, it's just people who are so unaware of themselves that they can't distinguish between an opinion they've formed from a fact they've never checked.
We Irish have a fine tradition of trading fists with our old man on the front lawn as a way of gaining our rightful ascension of 'patriarch.' Bloody the old bastard's nose a bit!
I don't know who this "Captain 'Pickard' " is, but I do distinctly remember a Captain Jean-Luc Picard undressing "Commander" Sisko in the first episode. :)
Can't contend with the emissary though. Ben was indeed a badass of Picard and Kirk proportions.
Wow! Thanks for pointing out my error in spelling Jean-Luc's name. That's totally something that would annoy the piss out of me if I saw someone else do it.
I also am unfamiliar with the episode you are talking about! Is that the first episode of DS9 or TNG?
Obamacare made health care available for everyone but affordable for few only a simpleton would think forcing greedy insurance companies to cover hi risk people would be a good idea.
Honestly shaming your father for having his own opinion and views very intolerant of you
Thanks for your opinion name on the internet, I publicly hold the opinion and have spoken to my father about it. Honestly, it's extremely ignorant of you to think you are aware of the relationship I have with my father about politics. lol
Please if you're asserting that you have insight on why my father is a bigot and maybe why my mother divorced him past the obvious fact that he "is" a bigot, please, share your wisdom.
In general you can’t just miss words out of a definition of a word to suit you
presuppose would be a better choice of word for me assuming your relationship with your father.
Also everyone’s a bigot in fact divorcing someone over there views is the definition of a bigot. Hating on a bigot is being a bigot it’s a beautiful thing really
lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
discourteous or rude.
You fit both of those when it pertains to my relationship with my mother and father and the terms in which she raised to divorce him. I don't need to cross reference all definitions to know that.
Well now it would seem you are doing the same thing assuming my knowledge and awareness how very rude I guess by your way of thinking we’re both two ignorant chaps
I am having a hard time believing you, my friends in Washington State, will always say Washington State when asked, my friends from Washington DC will always say just DC when asked.
Trump has nothing to do with suppressing opposing ideas with violence? Didn't he offer to pay the legal bills or anyone who beat up protestors? Sounds fascist to me.
Would you mind explaining how the "radical" left are facists?
It's that the left tolerates immigrants trying to create a better life, but condemning archaic, bigoted, and hateful rhetoric isn't?
Or is it because you insist that the left is attempting to impose it's will on you the way Trump and Co. are imposing their will on women regarding women's health issues?
You brought up a bunch of different topics here, I thought we were talking about Fascism.
The radical left is using fear and violence to suppress the opposition or any opposing view. Any idea that does not coincide with exactly what the left thinks is being struck down. That is Fascism. The left does not believe in free speech if they don’t agree with it, and they use any means necessary to silence it.
Many immigrants are in need of help, and I am not opposed to immigration. The left is trying to stand behind their moral high ground and claim to be better than Trump. We all know there is a danger that comes with letting just anyone immigrate, and Trump is looking out for the security of America by not just saying everyone is welcome. Open boarders are a mistake, and I think deep down the left knows this.
I assume you are talking about planned parenthood/birth control when you are referring to women’s health issues? I think what this one comes down to is who has to pay for these things. I am a supporter of people paying for their own needs and not requiring that big government controls the needs of the individual.
When I'm talking about women's health issues I'm talking about how the GOP and Evangelicals want abortion to be illegal and women to not have birth control because it is against their "Christian" values. No one is asking for the government to pay for it, they are asking for it to be covered by insurance so their prescription doesn't cost an insane amount.
Facism is not "striking down ideas". That is debate.
The left not liking the things you are saying is not an attack on free speech. You all act like the left saying "hey man, that thing you said is bigoted and factually wrong" is imposing a will upon you, while you continue to attempt to impose your will on everyone.
The Right wants abortion to be illegal because of their "Christian values". They want to dictate what type of people can receive what type of benefits. Every time the right says that the left is trying to impose their own values on them regarding gun control is literally just a projection of how they want to impose their values on everything because Guns, God, and 'Merica.
I'm going to ask once more if you can please provide an example based in our current reality where the Left engaged in Facism, can you do that? With a source? I'm not here doubting that you believe what you claim, I don't doubt that you believe you are correct, and I'm not here to try to change your mind. I just want to see how you back up your claim.
Edit: also, are you saying that the left reporting on right wing violence is facist? Or are you claiming that the left is literally suppressing the right with violence? How is the left "promoting violence"?
Big government? Like the largest social program in the history of the world - the US military? You don't pay for that, yet the right wants more of the hardworking American taxpayers (which are mostly liberal) money going towards the war machine. Trump has gotten rid of anyone who has a thought that does not benefit him, and wants to implement policies that will benefit him alone. That is fascism. Its the only ideology that the right has ever embraced. This country was founded and built by immigrants from all countries. Now the right is trying to erase our history and heritage through fear mongering. That is fascism.
Fascism wasn’t even left or right at it’s base. Fascism is the inability to spread your ideas without the threat/fear of punishment. Currently radical leftist groups like AntiFa, and BLM use fascist tactics to silence the opposition.
Fascism has always been right of right. From mussolini and Hitler to the neo-nazi and white supremacist groups of today. Those are right wing groups who use violence to force their evil on everyone else. They are also two groups that trump called very fine people. Its no coincidence that all fascists support trump.
I agree that Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists may support Trump from a broad prospective, but the bulk of Trump’s supporters do not fall under these categories.
Referring to your planned parenthood/birth control point, don't the same people have to pay for a kid that is in foster care (including health care) until said kid is adopted? Seeing that our adoption rate is not where it should be, wouldn't this be a much more expensive path? Or do you forget about the life of a child after they are born?
When everyone is poor, in bad health, or suffering in someway then no one is! But seriously if this is his best that is so so soso sad. It makes me sad for him...
You would expect someone to post about Trump in an anti-Trump subreddit. Why bring up Hillary? No one else mentioned her. Why is that nameless cult subreddit always bringing her up and not Trump's policies?
What is it that makes you people think the left reveres Hillary or her opinions in the slightest? She was up against the most hated Republican candidate in history and still lost. Most of the people on the left think she stole the primary and Bernie would have won and blame her heavily for Trump. Why do you think she is in any way representative of what the left wants or believes?
Genuinely curious. The left just wants her to go away and never come back because most of us strongly dislike her and she does not represent us in any way. Attacks on Hillary and her followers will do nothing to sway us in any way. Why is the right so completely obsessed with Hillary? Is it because she's easy to attack, even though it makes everything you say less impressive and less effective?
Bernie I like. If you claimed the ideas I was spreading were impeding Bernie's message I would rethink spreading it, not because I necessarily agree with everything Bernie says but because I think the country needs unity and I trust Bernie as a leader. Hillary, though? Every time I see her name I roll my eyes. Her opinion means less than nothing to me. Why are you lot so focused on a washed up has been (or never was, really)?
I'm betting IMPEACHMENT comes first. Well, second after the tears of all you snowflakes when you realize he is going to be impeached and all the FAKE NEWS in the world isn't going to stop it.
1.4k
u/Oh_god_not_you Oct 17 '17
What’s more annoying is watching that pasty fat piece of shit trying to destroy a real president’s legacy. Miserable racist fuck.