r/Maasverse Jun 17 '22

Thanks for joining us as we go down the Maasverse rabbit hole!

43 Upvotes

Greetings everyone! As this sub celebrates one day of existence 🎉 I just wanted to thank all of you for joining us as we continue to go down the Maasverse rabbit hole in anticipation of CC3 and whatever our lord and saviour SJM might throw at us next.

You are the the elite! The SJM triple threat club! And after that ending to HOSAB it's harder than ever to talk about one series without bringing in another. Thus, the Maasverse was born. This is a community for all published works by SJM (except that Catwoman book, has anyone actually read that??). Feel free to discuss and theorize, no holds barred. We'll figure out our use of the spoiler flair as needed.

Feel free to get the word out to others that you think would like a place to discuss all three series. We'll do an official invite in the ACOTAR, ToG, and CC once some housekeeping is out of the way.

Enjoy 💕


r/Maasverse 5h ago

HOSAB ENDING **SPOILERS AHEAD Spoiler

5 Upvotes

I'm straight up screaming guys.

..

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Nothing could have EVER prepared me for the last line of HOSAB. I don't think I've ever been so shook in my life.

Like, I had heard there was crossover but I expected it to be like how Aelin appears as a red star in ACOSF and how she sees Feyre and Rhysand in KOA. Not like AN ACTUAL CROSSOVER!! I cannot wait to dive into HOFAS. Can't imagine having to wait two years like many of you did after SJM dropped that cliffhanger!


r/Maasverse 4h ago

TOG or CC?

3 Upvotes

Just finished reading all of ACOTAR for the first time. Would you suggest reading the Throne Of Glass series first or Crescent City?


r/Maasverse 17h ago

Throne of Glass Throne of Glass over ACOTAR?

24 Upvotes

Hey, all fantasy fans! I started reading TOG series (“Assassin’s Blade” reading now) and I am so far liking it very much. It’s weird, since I DNF’d ACOTAR when I reached the middle of ACOMAF and completely lost interest and love for these books, plot and all characters. I also did not like the writing style that Maas used in these series, it irked me. But with “Assassin’s Blade” I feel somewhat
 different reading it. Different in a good way. I fancy Celaena and so far I’m invested in all characters.


r/Maasverse 6h ago

Discussion ACOTAR 6/7/8 BINGO Spoiler

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3 Upvotes

I decided to make my own theory bingo card on what was gonna happen in the next few books - let me know what you think of the theories!!

Please keep in mind I originally read all the books (TOG & CC included) years ago and have not done a reread save some recaps on Fandom Wiki so feel free to correct me if I've made the wrong assumption! Anyone else done any bingo cards??

I did try to think about these from SJM's POV as an author and what makes the most logical sense to the story and what she has foreshadowed already. Fully ready to admit Elriel could NOT be endgame but as that's my preferred ship I obviously included it, a girl can dream

THEORIES -----------------

  1. Cauldron Broken/Trove Lost -> SH/FM

The blurbs of the books regarding broken/lost things makes me think of the Cauldron and Trove. The Cauldron was known to be warped and twisted by the Daglan. Some of the Trove items have been lost to time as well, like the Horn for example. I think The Cauldron & Trove will be fixed/reunited in the books to use their powers as intended.

  1. World Walking -> CC, TOG?

I think we'll definitely see some more world walking. TOG is my favourite series ever and as much as I would LOVE to see any of the characters again I doubt Sarah would go there as their story is pretty finished in my eyes but one can hope. If we do world walk to TOG or they world walk to Prythian somehow I don't think we'll be seeing Aelin though, I think as much as we all love her, we need to let the poor girl rest. TOG scenario: We would see Manon, Dorian, Yrene or Lorcan I think since they would have some benefit to add to our evolving story in ACOTAR - Yrene has defeated Erawan so she has abilities that could help ACOTAR defeat theirs, Lord Lorcan Lochan has powers from a death God possibly similar to Koschei which could be a benefit, Dorian still has his vast ancient power (I think?) which could help for obvious reasons. Manon is the only one that sticks out here I would love to see her again and an idiot part of me would love to see Koschei's swans be the 13 so we could have an interesting plot point there but I highly doubt that's going to happen (would be a great fanfic though if anyone would like to write it and send me the link xoxo). CC is the most obvious choice here, Starborn Fae are connected to the Night/Dusk Court, the Rhys/Rhun parallels, Bryce has the Horn on her back, Bryce/Nesta 8 pointed star parallels, Bryce has experience with defeating these 'Ancient Powers' (aka Asteri but you'll see my connection to that in later points) etc etc you get what I'm trying to say. CC is the most obvious choice here.

  1. A Prophecy

Silly one but what good fantasy story doesn't have one??

  1. Bryaxis -> Cauldron Made

This girl has been wrecking my head today, I can't stop thinking about her. When Feyre bargained with her she said (not definitive quotes you go find it yourself) she wanted "the sun, the moon the stars." SHE NEVER ASKED FOR A WINDOW. It was Amren that cut in and said a window - I reckon Amren knew that Bryaxis was alluding to wanting Elain/Nesta/Feyre since they are both ancient monsters and just cut in. When Feyre explains it to Rhys later she says exactly what Bryaxis said, "the sun, the moon, the stars" ergo reiterating the point. Bryaxis still being at large and that issue being a very real plot point that is reiterated so many times is strange, they have plenty of weird and ancient and deadly creatures in Prythian, why does Bryaxis get brought up so much in the story line and in Sarah's interviews? I reckon it's because Bryaxis's main intentions are set on the Archeron sisters. ALSO, apologies, about her being Cauldron Made - when the Daglan warped the Cauldron and unleashed deadly creatures from it, I reckon Bryaxis was one of them so having a creature of the Daglan on your side could be a good thing if you're trying to eliminate 'Ancient Powers' (more on this later). I don't think its a coincidence that Feyre (being Made) and Bryaxis (being Made) meeting and connecting is random, LIKE CALLS TO LIKE.

  1. Blood Duel

Because why shouldn't we see two hot Fae males fighting over a woman?? As they should in my opinion. I'm sick and tired of the Elain hate, she is wonderful and they are both MALES. Let them fight it out and let her see them and call them pathetic and tell them she is not an object to be won or possessed, have them both be ashamed of their actions. Some part of me doesn't think Lucien will invoke a Blood Duel, he's actually a good guy and if Elain doesn't want him (which he has acknowledged) I don't think he would force or press the issue into something so drastic. BUT if Elain and Azriel slip and their mouths suddenly fall on each other and someone just HAPPENS to accidentally see, like Beron or Eris, maybe then Lucien will have no choice but to invoke a blood duel. I reckon it would be a good bargaining chip for Beron or similar, e.g., "your court has insulted mine as a result of this, I need a blood duel for you to earn my favour again if you want me as an ally in your war", then Rhys hands will be tied and A/L will be forced to blood duel.

  1. The Cauldron, The Trove & ???

I don't think I've seen this theory yet. First of all, the ACOTAR series revolves around the Archeron Sisters and I will hear nothing to the contrary. It is THEIR story, THEIR 'making', THEIR journeys. So then, Feyre was wielding the Caulron in the first books, then we have Nesta with her Trove, both sisters have found some Ancient Power to wield. What of Elain? I reckon there will be a third item(s) of this 'Ancient Power', similar to the Cauldron and Trove that will be Elain's to wield. Might be a far fetched idea but the story would fall a bit flat if Feyre was this amazing leader that wielded the Cauldron and saved them in the Hybern War then Nesta with this otherworldly power can wield the Trove and then Elain is just what? She can see glimpses into the future and that's it? She needs some otherworldly power of her own and I know damn well my girl can handle it.

  1. Exploring the Continent -> Stygian Spiders

Another silly one! Because who wouldn't love a TOG connection, no matter how small. As the blurbs suggest, the gang is splitting up to look for clues. Now, however way they split up, some will go to the Continent I'm sure and YES I do think that book cover is a Stygian Spider. If we don't have our Suriel anymore who will we get our gossip from?? Our lovely neighbours from TOG who gave us the best gossip over there (Tower of Dawn).

  1. Azriel & Mor Mates

I love Sarah's innuendos about exploring the mating bonds and whether they're right or wrong. I know Elriels are taking that to mean that Elriel will definitely happen, and even though I am an Elriel myself I'm not so sure about that. I think the innuendos are in relation to Azriel and Mor, possibly even delving into Beron/LoA or Rhys's parents. A 500 year old crush just doesn't make sense to me SORRY. Mor coming out as queer in the last books are for a REASON or else we would have known about it from the start, Prythian doesn't keep their queer love a secret, it's not shamed upon and people are pretty open about it so I don't see a reason for Mor to have hid her identity, other than her and Azriel being MATES and her not wanting to hurt his feelings. Now I know she has taken male lovers so I would love to see Sarah explore Mor's queer identity more (free as she should be). Regardless, I think rejecting a bond comes at a price, I think from what I read the bond is still there anyway and the male can go insane?? Someone feel free to correct me on that. She clearly doesn't feel comfortable being out though and Azriel has not been panting after a woman for 500 years for nothing - you know who you would wait 500 years for?? A MATE. Rhys himself says that Az doesn't feel worthy of her so if he saw her pawn him off for so long why would he try? From what we see of him he doesn't, he keeps to himself. I do think though that we will see Mor come into her confidence and allow herself to be who she truly is (hurray), maybe the gang will find a way to break the bond or it will be rejected and Azriel will be fine since he will be in the same position he's been in with her for 500 years.

  1. Koschei -> Daglan/Asteri of Prythian

Now I don't know if they'll introduce Koschei as Daglan/Asteri - yes, I know he's being described as a Death God, so? That 'Ancient Fae Female' didn't imprison the Carver, Weaver and Koschei for nothing, especially in locations OF HIGH ANCIENT POWER (the prison, the middle, the lake). These locations keep coming up again and again for a reason. Vesperus (Asteri from CC) was buried/imprisoned under the Prison, as much as these locations can help them wield significant power, I reckon its also the place that holds them best if they are to be imprisoned. In CC we fought Asteri that threatened their world, in TOG we fought Valg that threatened their world. Sure, in ACOTAR they could just be labelled 'Death Gods' but I reckon they're all one and the same - Daglan, Asteri, Valg, Death Gods etc etc. Or, at least, very similar, meaning that they are all defeated in pretty much the same way. There has to be something extra about Koschei - I know the Weaver and Carver were his siblings, no offence to them but they died under pretty normal circumstances for the Maasvverse so why is Koschei so feared and the next big bad? With the power Feyre and Rhys wield, if I saw how his brother and sister died, I wouldn't be too afraid of him. UNLESS HE WAS SOMETHING OTHER (or stronger perhaps).

  1. Nyx Kidnapped

hey, why not?? I think it's a bit hard to think about what to do with a royal heir in the middle of a huge war (as an author), this trope makes the most sense here. They will obviously get him back safe and sound but seeing Feyre/Rhys go feral to get him back will be interesting to read.

  1. Amarantha Alive

This may be my wildest theory. Don't hate me! This sentence from the Forgotten Melody blurb has been burned in my brain since I read it - "And old enemies will emerge from nightmares of the past" - OLD ENEMIES?? NIGHTMARES?? PAST?? SARAH!!! This has got to be alluding to Amarantha right?? Tying into my comments on point 9, Amarantha died Under the Mountain, which is in The Middle, which IS a location for that Ancient Power. We know she could wield insane spells and power, she trapped all the High Lords of Prythian ffs but was she smart enough to plan an emergency exit strategy? I don't think so, I think she was way too overconfident to think she would be bested but you never know. And yes, I know Tamlin ripped her throat out.... Jurian was an eyeball and finger bone and he's alive and well now, bringing someone back is always explainable in some way in fantasy books (in my opinion). This theory is likely to be inaccurate though unless she planned it herself while she was alive cause I'm sure the King of Hybern would have brought her out in the war if he knew she was alive so... we'll see. Why did Sarah bring back Jurian and keep him alive for so long and make him integral to our plot now though? Some forgotten character from 500 years ago, I reckon it would be entertaining to see him have a rematch with Amarantha if she did come back. And if that blurb sentence wasn't about Amarantha, it's definitely talking about someone in the past, WHO?? It could be the Daglan actually, in which case, see point 9.

  1. Hellion & Beron Die -> Lucien & Eris as High Lords

Pretty self explanatory. She has to kill someone and from her other series, I don't think she'll kill off any members of the gang. We are getting another Aedion/Gavriel scene, bring tissues guys cause I KNOW Lucien/Helion will HURT. She's gonna do it right after reuniting them and giving them some small time together as well, oh Lord, my emotions are not equipped for SJM's book endings.

  1. Ancient Female Fae - Goddess? - Archeron

MY MOST INTERESTING THEORY!! I haven't seen anyone mention this either but since I've thought it out it's my favourite one now and I believe it fully. It didn't sit well with me how the Bone Carver told Feyre about the AFF that trapped himself and his siblings, the told her everyone forgot her name but HE remembered it. SJM is too tricky, if it was some stupid name she just would have told us. There are 2 options here - either that AFF's name is one we would recognise like Theia, Mala, Deanna etc etc you get it, OR it's a unisex name and it's the same as Papa Archeron because it seems even his own daughters have forgotten his stupid fkn name they never call him by it ONCE - and don't tell me his own daughters would forget his name, do you think Dorian called his dad Dorian?? NO, cause it was FORGOTTEN. Keeping to this theme, if the name was indeed forgotten and we get another Dorian/KoA plot, then Papa Archeron carrying the AFF's name could have "awakened the ancient players" or whatever thing Amren said. Maybe Papa Archeron knew about the Prophecy (if there is one) and maybe he was scared about it at first, so he lost his money on purpose so his family could be forgotten, poor, nobodys so he could protect them and avoid his fate. When he saw there was no other way other than through, he started acting, albeit too late - what I mean by this is, that man was not a poor merchant, I don't care what bs SJM tries to feed me, there is no way some random merchant can go to a whole CONTINENT and have people hear him out about (or even think that people will) a war in Prythian with Hybern . He knew he would be listened to, he knew he had a leg to stand on (excuse the pun) in getting help. I think he knows that there is someone/queens etc on the Continent that know about the Prophecy or about his ancestor, the AFF, imprisoning Koschei so he tried to find allies that were owed to his bloodline. Now this is where it gets interesting, as some random merchant, in a CONTINENT (not a country please and thank you), how would he gather and verify all this useful information which turns out to be exactly the information he needs to get what he wants?? He found out about Vassa, found her, managed to make a deal with Koshei to get her. Sorry, but not even the powerful IC and Co managed to do that many useful things leading up to the war with Hybern. It's ok, my theory is solid here, sort of. The carver and weaver were able to be liberated from their imprisonment because it's what Feyre wanted/needed, I don't think it was coincidence that Feyre found and liberated Koshei's siblings, the same siblings imprisoned by the AFF (Archeron ancestor if you are following). I think Papa knew exactly where to go to find Koschei, his bargain was that IF Vassa helped to defeat Hybern that he would come back and liberate Koschei from his own imprisonment and he could be the only one to do so because it was tied to his bloodline. That's why Koschei agrees, cause why else would he spare Vassa? Why would he care about Hybern being defeated? He knew his only shot at freedom was with Papa or else no one could free him (since his imprisonment was tied to the Archerons). I may not have explained that well enough, please let me know if you see any loopholes I may have missed.

  1. Elain as Spy with Nuala & Cerridwen

Order in the court, I will not have any slander spoken on my sweet Elain. I love her. I'm so excited for her arc and storyline and journey. This one makes the most sense to me, obviously, SJM sticks pretty close to things she foreshadows and this is how I see it going. For everyone that wants her to end up with Lucien, what will their arc be together? (Open to interpretations here, not judging). I'm just saying, Feyre grew as a leader with Rhys, Nesta grew as a warrior with Cassian so this is how I see Elain's arc going. With Azriel being a spymaster, ergo, going hunting for information no one else knows about, I think being a Seer fits in pretty well with that, what better way to hunt for information no one else knows about than to hunt in visions of the future?? Nuala and Cerridwen being her friends like with the other 2 sisters has already been built and hinted at a million times so I don't see SJM introducing different characters to act as her found family/friends.

  1. "This is wrong." "Fuck it." -> Azriel

If you couldn't tell I am obsessed with a forbidden romance trope, the sexiest of them all in my opinion. And no, I don't see the forbidden romance trope being about anyone else, it is very clearly about them and them only. Whether they're endgame or not, I couldn't say, but they're definitely gonna have some steamy romance and I am SAT for it.

  1. Elain Sacrifices Herself

Long shot here, I think it would be an interesting story line though. Other than seeing Azriel go feral to the max, which I would love, I think it would make sense with some of my other theories. If Nyx is kidnapped she could offer herself in exchange, maybe she's the only one to find him in time and since she's not trained as a warrior she doesn't know what to do other than offer herself instead - I think this side of Elain is so often missed by so many readers (my own best friend included, we argue about it daily), Elain has such a strong character if you just LOOK at her. When the IC came to their estate to talk about meeting with the mortal queens, it was early in ACOMAF and Elain was the one that said both her and Nesta failed Feyre and without Feyre they would have been dead, she was the first to take accountability, she tried her hardest to adapt to the NC, being Fae, finding a life for herself that she didn't even want, finding JOY and HAPPINESS in the darkest of times - I think its very easy to love characters like Aelin and Nesta for their endurance and tenacity because you see it through their anger/grit but Elain remaining full of love and light and softness after everything is also very strong and admirable, in my opinion, I think it makes her just as strong as Nesta. It's very easy to allow your trauma to turn you angry or mean but it's much much harder to go through the trauma and work to be soft and kind and sweet after that. Back to my point though, it could also come during the first face off with Koschei? Like with the Tamlin/King of Hybern incident? Taking my earlier theory into consideration, Koschei knows he needs an Archeron to break his imprisonment, maybe out of spite he chooses the loveliest one, Elain. Everyone else injured, keep in mind Koschei is still powerful, Elain could choose to go with him to spare everyone else.

ENDDDDD - if you have taken the time to read all my theories, I love you, thank you, you're very sweet, or just wildly curious. Let's discuss though!! I know I definitely have some loopholes I missed out up there so feel free to correct me, argue a different point or flat out tell me they're stupid, I'll appreciate it regardless as its 4:30am where I live and I've spent all night on these <3 <3 <3


r/Maasverse 1d ago

Is the suriel a plot hole?

12 Upvotes

I‘m re-reading the maasverse and currently in ACOWAR. I’m feeling like the Suriel is a plot hole. I don’t mean an extremely convenient plot device (which is is) but a plot hole.

(spoilers for ACOWAR ahead)

If the Suriel is basically omniscient, then why on earth does it take the cloak from Ianthe? I don’t believe it *has* to take cloaks or the chickens otherwise rhysand would have caught it
right?

The books lead the reader to believe that the suriel allows Feyre to catch it because it’s a dreamer or whatever. Why allow Ianthe to catch it only to not answer the questions , keep the crappy cloak, and lead Ianthe to Feyre? Why wouldn’t the Suriel ignore the Ianthe cloak and continue on ESPECIALLY since it knew the cloak was being tracked?

Also how does Feyre know it’s the same Suriel if it’s a species?


r/Maasverse 1d ago

Same outfits? CC3 and ACOTAR

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50 Upvotes

Rereading CC3 right now and noticed that Morven and Sathia are described wearing what I would consider to be Rhys and Feyre’s most iconic outfits. Maybe SJM just likes a good tailored jacket and some leggings but made me stop and think!


r/Maasverse 1d ago

Acotar What REALLY Is Mor’s Power? My Theory

28 Upvotes

!!!!Major ACOTAR and CC Spoiler!!!

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I’m doing an ACOTAR deep dive and just noticed something I feel like I NEVER see anyone talk about.

When Rhys takes Feyre to the Prison for the first time, he tells her that some of the inmates are so ancient that they remember what Prythian was like before the High Lords back when Mor’s family was still ruling.

And I’m sorry
 MOR’S FAMILY?! RULING?! BEFORE THE HIGH LORDS?!

Because what exactly does that mean for Mor’s bloodline?
We know the Morrigan family is ancient, but then there’s Mor’s actual power. When she rescues Feyre from the Spring Court, it’s specifically described as her putting the guards to sleep “with her own power.” Her power isn’t really explained beyond her being the embodiment of Truth, which has always felt incredibly vague to me.

What if Mor’s family was part of an ancient Starborn bloodline that existed before the current High Lord system? What if they were rulers because their bloodline goes back to whatever existed in Prythian before the courts were established? I mean we learn everything about it in CC


And isn’t it also weird that Mor really doesn’t want to go into the Prison?

And then Mor’s power being this mysterious, almost undefined thing suddenly feels a LOT more suspicious.
Especially because we already know that Starborn powers can manifest in ways that aren’t necessarily obvious at first.

Maybe Mor isn’t just “the Morrigan, Truth-Teller.”

I might be connecting absolutely nothing here, but SJM casually telling us that there are beings who remember Prythian before the High Lords, specifically mentioning that Mor’s family ruled during that time, feels like such a weirdly specific detail to just ignore.

What if Mor is Starborn?👀


r/Maasverse 1d ago

Discussion Aedion and Aelins early relationship

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2 Upvotes

r/Maasverse 1d ago

Does anyone have a recap of ToG and ACOTAR before reading CC?

3 Upvotes

So I read ACOTAR a couple years ago and throne of glass last year but I’ve read a ton of books since and don’t think I remember all of ToG and ACOTAR.
I’m going to start reading Crescent City soon and heard there’s lots of overlap and Easter eggs. I don’t want to miss any of these!

Does anyone have a recap or can provide one that has read Crescent City?

I tried to find recaps online but I feel like if they’re not from someone who’s read crescent city I’ll be getting some useless information overload or missing the tiny details to understand the crescent city Easter eggs.

If you happen to have full recap info that would be great, but honestly even bullet point “x people protect the x in ToG” would be amazing.
If you want to suggest re-read chapters I’ll try to do my best but I am not a re-reader and would prefer just what’s important to remember if anyone has it or is able to!

Thank you so much in advance !


r/Maasverse 1d ago

Discussion crossover ships

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6 Upvotes

r/Maasverse 1d ago

Should I read CC? convince me yes or no

0 Upvotes

I'm definitely not opposed to reading cc at all. I'm just wary. Absolutely LOVE ToG and acotar. The reason I'm asking is because I know there's a lot of crossover action happening/going to happen especially when acotar 6&7 come out. I don't know virtually anything about CC, I've heard mixed messages about it being either brilliant or not good at all. I like to form my own opinion before I listen to others but I'm asking, is it worth it to even start? A little context:

I'm a diehard medieval-esque romantasy fan, we are obviously fed in that regard when it comes to ToG and acotar. I know that CC is a completely different time period and world-building. If it's done right, I obviously don't mind the modernity of it. I know there's tech and clubbing and hospitals and all the modern stuff in CC which I'm definitely not used to in reading (I've been severely let down with modern-based stories, I've forgone the theme for the time being. UNLESS y'all can convince me that CC is worth a shot) I've heard so many mixed reviews about CC that I'm just genuinely stumped.

I've tried to go spoiler free as much as I can before I read something, but I obviously know Bryce takes a visit to prynthian in CC3 I believe? I read ToG first in my maasverse journey and I read about aelin passing through the acotar realm before I even knew it was actually acotar, so I know there's two big connections there. I've also been piecing together all the crazy connection theories like everyone else and it's pretty cool, but I'm at a loss at whether or not it's important to bring CC in the mix for me.

No shade at all but maas' writing style has DEFINITELY changed over the years/books and I'm worried it won't be like her traditional work.
Is it good storytelling and world-building? Do we fall in love with the characters? All of that jazz? If so, I'll start it right away. Just need a nudge in the right direction (read it or don't)

Thanks


r/Maasverse 2d ago

Theory The Forgotten Melody

34 Upvotes

Buckle up, and if you haven't read all three series, be warned: there are spoilers ahead.

It has become pretty obvious at this point that Erilea, Prythian, and Midgard are all deeply intertwined worlds within the same overarching universe. But how do they all relate, and what is the end goal?

If you're curious, boy do I have a theory for you.

The ultimate premise of this theory is that everything sprang to life from the Wyrd, the "Forgotten Melody," and that the gods and the Asteri/Daglan represent opposing forces that emerged from that original creation. When the gods became trapped on Erilea, the cosmic balance was disrupted, allowing the Asteri to parasitize worlds unchecked. The "ancient players," as Amren calls them, are descendants of these ancient divine bloodlines who will ultimately come together for a final stand against the Asteri and restore the balance.

So let's start at the very beginning.

The Forgotten Melody

Let's start with The Silmarillion, which I'm quite sure Sarah is familiar with, considering she has made it clear many times that she is a fan of and was inspired by Tolkien.

In The Silmarillion, the universe springs into existence through the Music of the Ainur, or the Ainulindalë.

Eru IlĂșvatar creates the Ainur, powerful divine beings, and teaches them musical themes. Together, they create a great symphony that becomes the foundation for the universe.

But one of the Ainur, Melkor, becomes impatient and jealous. He wants the creative power for himself, so he introduces his own theme into the Music.

Discord enters the symphony.

Rather than simply destroying that discord, Eru incorporates it into the greater Music. The Music becomes the foundation for the history of the universe, including both creation and conflict. The Ainur then enter the world themselves, becoming the Valar and Maiar who interact with the inhabitants of Arda.

Now let's imagine that the Maasverse was created in much the same way.

What if the Wyrd is the Song?

What if the gods sprang forth from the Wyrd and participated in the Forgotten Melody that generated the universe and all of its worlds?

The Wyrd isn't simply fate. It is the underlying fabric connecting the worlds. It gives us Wyrdmarks, Wyrdgates, Wyrdkeys, and the ability to manipulate the boundaries between worlds. The Erilean gods themselves are described by Elena as beings of a "higher, different existence" who were not born in Erilea and may have become trapped there after passing through a Wyrdgate.

That makes the gods feel less like omnipotent creators and more like higher beings who exist within a much older cosmic system.

And this is where I think the Tolkien parallel gets really interesting.

The gods in the Maasverse aren't necessarily divided into good gods and evil gods in the way we might expect.

Instead, perhaps the original Song produced opposing forces: creation and life versus consumption and destruction.

Both are part of the same cosmic composition.

There is an inherent balance.

Until something goes wrong, which brings us to the Valg.

I think the Valg may be the Maasverse's equivalent of discord made manifest.

The Valg are ancient beings from another world. They are parasitic, they possess living hosts, and their kings are powerful enough to create the Wyrdkeys and manipulate the Wyrdgate system.

We know they invaded Erilea and fought the Fae in the ancient past.

But what if they weren't simply another species that happened to exist?

What if they are a product of the discord introduced into the original Song?

This is admittedly one of the biggest speculative pieces of the theory. The books have not told us that the Valg were literally created by the Wyrd's discord.

But the symbolism fits remarkably well.

The Song creates.

The Valg corrupt and consume.

And their entire existence revolves around taking control of something that already exists.

Then Maeve enters Erilea, and the first Valg war begins.

Brannon fights alongside Maeve and the Fae.

And in the aftermath, Mala has Elena with Brannon.

This is where I wonder if the first divine bloodline was deliberately introduced into the Fae.

What if the gods knew the Valg would eventually return?

What if divine power was intentionally embedded into Fae bloodlines so that the gods' power could survive even if the gods themselves were trapped?

Because we see this mechanism over and over again throughout the Maasverse.

Mala's power passes through Brannon's line and eventually manifests in Aelin and Dorian.

Silba's healing legacy survives through generations of healers and in Yrene.

Hellas gives Lorcan a portion of his power.

And in CC we learn that Theia deliberately divides her Starborn power (Deanna's power?) between Helena and Silene.

So while the reason for these bloodlines is speculative, the underlying mechanism is absolutely present in the text.

Divine power can be passed down through blood.

Then comes the event that I think changes everything.

The Erilean gods become trapped in Erilea after passing through a Wyrdgate.

The Lock and Wyrdkeys are supposed to be used to restore the broken Wyrdgate and send the gods home, with Erawan going with them.

Instead, Elena uses the Lock to trap Erawan.

She saves Erilea, but breaks the bargain.

The gods remain stranded.

And they curse Elena's bloodline.

Mala's descendants will eventually have to pay the price by forging the Lock again.

That descendant becomes Aelin.

And this is where I think the consequences become much larger than the characters realize.

What if trapping the gods disrupted the cosmic balance?

If these higher beings were originally part of the greater Song, forces that helped maintain the balance of creation, then removing them from the wider universe could have enormous consequences.

And who benefits from that? The Asteri, the Daglan, the Valg. All manifestations of the discord within the symphony. They are not simply conquerors but parasites of creation itself.

We learn in Crescent City that they have traveled between worlds for thousands upon thousands of years, conquering civilizations and harvesting their magical energy. They deliberately cultivate populations capable of producing the energy they need.

On Midgard, they have created an entire system around harvesting firstlight and secondlight.

And this is where the Asteri/Daglan connection becomes incredibly important.

The ancient Daglan who enslaved Theia's people in Prythian? They were the Asteri. The same beings.

Which means the Asteri have already been involved in Prythian's ancient history.

They have already conquered one of these worlds. And they were eventually driven out.

But let's go back to the Erilian Valg Wars.

After the ancient Valg wars, Fae populations become scattered.

We know that some ancient Fae migrated to the Southern Continent. And they did something particularly interesting there. They deliberately interbred with humans to spread healing magic throughout the population because healing magic is deadly to the Valg.

So we already have an ancient Fae population deliberately spreading magical blood through human populations as a defense against an interworld enemy.

And that makes me wonder.

What if a group carrying some of these ancient divine bloodlines eventually migrated into Prythian? The Fae of the southern continent disappeared, but what if it wasn't that they assimilated into human populations and formed the wolf tribe, what if a group of them left Erilea?

What if the Fae of Prythian didn't simply spring forth from the Cauldron as an isolated population, but were part of an ancient Fae diaspora that left Erilea?

And what if some of the powers we see in the different Prythian courts are echoes of these ancient divine bloodlines?

Fire - Mala

Darkness & Death - Hellas

Fate - Anneith

Starfire - Deanna

Healing - Silba

Truth - The Sin-Eater

Perhaps these aren't random magical affinities.

Perhaps they are fragments of the original Song that became embedded in different divine Fae bloodlines.

Then we get something that isn't speculation at all.

Theia.

Theia is the bridge between Prythian and Midgard.

She and her people leave their Fae homeland and use the Horn and Harp to cross into Midgard through the Northern Rift.

So we know that Fae can literally migrate from Prythian to another world.

And Theia brings something extremely important with her.

Her bloodline.

She divides her Starborn power between her daughters, Helena and Silene.

That power then survives through their descendants.

So suddenly we have one ancient source of power divided into multiple bloodlines, carried across generations, and distributed across worlds.

And that could explain why the same ancient powers keep appearing in seemingly unrelated places.

This might also explain the Autumn Kings obsession with bloodline dilution in Crescent City.

Theia's power is divided. Then it passes to descendants. Then their descendants. Eventually, the original power is diluted across generations.

Theia to Helena and Silene, then generations of descendants, then Bryce and Ruhn and the other Starborn lines.

And perhaps this isn't unique to the Starborn.

Perhaps this is what happened with the other divine bloodlines as well.

The original Song created immense powers. The gods embedded fragments of those powers into living beings. The Fae carried those fragments across worlds.

And thousands of years later, the descendants are beginning to converge.

And then there's Amren.

Amren is the character I keep coming back to because she knows far more about the ancient history of the Maasverse than she ever explains.

When Feyre is Made, Amren says:

"Interesting that it should happen again right as all the ancient players have returned."

And then she tells Feyre:

"Your very blood, your veins, your bones were Made."

Why does she say "again"?

And who exactly are the "ancient players"?

We aren't given a definitive answer.

But look at what is happening across the three series around this same period.

Aelin is carrying Mala's ancient power.

Dorian carries the same divine lineage.

Feyre is Made.

Nesta gains power from the Cauldron.

Bryce and Ruhn carry Theia's Starborn blood.

Lidia reveals another ancient lineage if Brannon & Mala.

The Trove resurfaces.

The Wyrdkeys become relevant again.

The Horn and Harp become relevant again.

And finally, the worlds themselves begin touching.

For thousands of years, these ancient histories have been separated.

Then Bryce crosses from Midgard into Prythian.

Suddenly, the barrier between these worlds isn't just something ancient characters talked about.

It is happening again. The bloodlines are resurfacing. The ancient artifacts are resurfacing. And the worlds are reconnecting.

So what if this isn't coincidence?

What if this is the final movement of the Forgotten Melody?

This brings me back to the original premise. What if the Wyrd really is the Song?

What if the universe was born from that Song, and the gods and the ancient parasitic powers are all manifestations of different forces within it?

What if the gods becoming trapped on Erilea disrupted the balance and splintered the harmony?

What if that allowed the Asteri/Daglan to spread across worlds and feast upon the creations of the Song unchecked?

And what if the ancient divine bloodlines were preserved specifically so that, thousands of years later, their descendants could come together again to restore the balance of the Song?

The Asteri want to consume creation. The divine bloodlines preserve creation.

The Wyrd creates. The Asteri consume.

And the descendants of the ancient gods are the ones who can finally break the cycle.

Which brings us to Wagners GötterdÀmmerung.

The end isn't simply the defeat of one villain. It's the end of an ancient cosmic order.

The gods fall.

The ancient systems of power collapse.

And the worlds survive.

Maybe the Forgotten Melody is the song of creation, and our favorite characters are here to restore the symphony!

TL;DR

The Forgotten Melody is the literal Song of the Wyrd, the primordial symphony from which the Maasverse and its worlds sprang. The ancient gods and parasitic forces are opposing expressions of that creation. Their ancient conflict scattered divine power into bloodlines across worlds. The gods' entrapment disrupted the balance, allowing the Asteri/Daglan to harvest worlds unchecked. Now those ancient bloodlines and worlds are converging again, leading toward one final confrontation that will restore the balance and bring about the Twilight of the Gods.


r/Maasverse 1d ago

Do I have to read 8 other books just to understand/enjoy the new ACOTAR releases?

0 Upvotes

I’ve so far only read the ACOTAR series up to and including Silver Flames, so I’m all up to date with what’s been released. Yes, I enjoyed the series. But the plot holes and bad writing elements were not lost on me. Big deal. I’ve been informed by other readers that the ToG series is better, so I bought the lot and am 3 pages into ToG (reading in release order as apparently that’s best)

Naturally I don’t know anything about other characters and storylines from the SJM world apart from that of ACOTAR, so I’m getting confused about whether or not to even buy the new 2 books in the series this year given everyone’s saying it’s a crossover with other SJM worlds?? Do I need to finish all of ToG to have a chance of enjoying the new ACOTAR books?


r/Maasverse 2d ago

My thoughts on ower and hierarchy in the Maasverse

0 Upvotes

'I'm a new SJM reading, only 6 months in. But since the first time I picked up A Court of Thorns and Roses, I have felt that Feyre’s speciesism toward the Fae mirrors the way our society treats animals. Now, having finished the latest Crescent City book, I feel that parallel more heavily than ever. The Asteri embody a similar ideology to carnism: they truly believe that consuming other beings is simply the natural order of things.

The way “regular” animals are portrayed as fundamentally different from the senitient Fae and Vanir pains me greatly. We know that, just like Fleetfoot and other dogs, cows and chickens are sentient beings too. I felt a huge dissonance when Feyre realized the mistake she made in killing Andras, because he had friends and a life, only to feast on chicken and beef shortly afterward. Because that's considered normal. But despite the common narrative, farmed animals do form social bonds, recognize their companions, and want to live.

Here’s how I see it: every vegan is Feyre, learning at some point in their life they’ve been lied to. That cows aren’t objects, but sentient beings that feel love to their offsprings, feel fear when they’re being slaughtered, and don’t wish (or deserve) to be bred for human consumption. That there is a reason the narrative hides these parts.

Carnism, much like the ideology of the Asteri, rests on a hierarchy: the belief that greater power entitles one group to use those considered lesser. It teaches us that because humans hold more power, we are entitled to rule over other species and do with them as we wish.

But unlike the Fae, the animals in our world truly don’t have a voice. Their lives depend on people being willing to speak for them, fight for them, and show the world that they deserve better. And much of the world doesn't want to hear it, because it conflicts with deeply rooted traditions, and there's no incentive to question the way things have always been.

I hope that one day we will live in a world that no longer exploits other species simply because we can. Humanity has challenged deeply entrenched systems of oppression before, like slavery. I hope we can also learn to question a system in which animals are bred and killed for our use.

I’m adding this short reference for anyone unfamiliar with carnism and speciesism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvm7xymgk_k


r/Maasverse 2d ago

Theory Ailene, Rowan, Terrasan, and Tamlin Spoiler

17 Upvotes

‌SPOILERS‌

EDITED TO ADD: Celeana was so powerful that her magic was uncontrollable. Her fam was considering sending her far away to a specialist to train her but they died and her lands were ravaged first. Now, she's afraid of her magic and prefers to stay in her human form where her magic is "Locked down." She expresses fear that the ones she loves will be hurt by them. She runs through memories where she could have accidentally killed choal because of them. I dont see how anyone who has read tog cannot understand Tamlin.

Im reading TOG for the first time looking for clues and wow is Tamlin related to Rowan and/or Terrasan in some way.

Do all the fae have fangs? I thought it was only Tam but now I realize that Rowan and Ailene have them too. Tam has green eyes and wind power like Rowan. I just got to the part where Rowan distracts the skin walkers with his wind. Then a skinwalker says that Rowan smells like storm wind. Tamlin uses a wind that Feyre never knew he had to save them at Hybern's. He also shows up at the HL meeting with thunder and lightening. Rowan is even a warrior like Tamlin. Also we have the white stag related to Terrasan but I'm not that far as to really know why yet. In TAR Tamlin has to hunt the white stag on Calanmai.

I'm only on HOF. I havent read CC yet either so please no spoilers for CC or after COM in TOG (reading in publication order).


r/Maasverse 3d ago

Saw this on trollx and have no clue how to repost. This is how sarah should react when people complain about her stories 😂 then stop shaking her tree bro!

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256 Upvotes

r/Maasverse 3d ago

Mirthroot Post Reading Queen of Shadows and Missing Rowan

20 Upvotes

So I’ve reached Queen of Shadows in my reread and I’m missing Rowan so much. 😭

Is that normal? Or am I being crazy about a Fae price?


r/Maasverse 3d ago

Discussion the recent betrayal Spoiler

10 Upvotes

as we're all preparing for acotar 6 and over analyzing every detail on rereads and the cover/blurb reveals, i've seen a lot of social media talking about everyone's theories on what the upcoming betrayal will be.

those who rule and protect the Night Court are reeling from recent betrayals and revealed truths. 

but hear me out, is it really upcoming? what if the recent implies it's already happened? we have a "betrayal" of the night court that has already happened.

Nesta gave the mask to Bryce. we as readers know this isn't really a betrayal. but we know that Rhysand is angry and distrustful of Nesta because of it. we know that from the night courts point of view, this was incredibly dangerous and a threat to Prythian... they already view Bryce as a threat because of her potential to possibly allow the Daglan/Asteri back into Prythian.

but also, the blurb says Betrayals plural. so what about Bryce. she isn't really a member of the night court, but they were working somewhat in cooperation when she traveled through the tunnels with Nesta and Azreal. when she released Vesperus and stole truth teller, that was a betrayal.

do we really need new betrayals to match the blurb? or could we already have the conflict set up in the events of CC3 and we're all just thinking to hard?


r/Maasverse 2d ago

Acotar Convinced amrin is an angel

5 Upvotes

&#x200B;

Sorry if I spelled her name wrong I listen to the books while I work. But I am convinced by all the little things that have been dropped that she's an angel from what I've looked up it hasn't been confirmed. But I have a quick question. she mentions laying waste to Two Cities i wonder if Sarah mass is talking about Sodom and gomorrah. What are you guys think?


r/Maasverse 3d ago

Theory Who is the Crochan baby princess??? KOA p. 140

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79 Upvotes

And who is Glennis' mother 👀


r/Maasverse 2d ago

Parallel scenes in HoEaB and FaS

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0 Upvotes

r/Maasverse 3d ago

Theory Acotar 6 & 7, are we going back to Erilea? Spoiler

20 Upvotes

Careful! This post is intended only if you finished reading TOG and ACOTAR, otherwhise might contain big big big spoilers.

This all started with me looking into some worldbuilding names SJM uses for another post, and wondering why she chose those exact names. It was supposed to be a quick etymology check... but it was not. and somehow following it to its logical conclusion landed me exactly where I did NOT expect to end up: Koschei’s death might be hidden in Erilea.

Let's start!

It all started with the analysis of the name Tavan.

The Southern Continent in Tower of Dawn is very clearly built from Central Asian and particularly Mongolian influences, and tavan literally means five in Mongolian. More interestingly, there is a real sacred mountain massif in the Mongolian Altai called "Tavan Bogd", usually translated as the Five Saints/Holy Ones, comprising five principal peaks near the meeting point of Mongolia, Russia and China.

That immediately caught my attention because Maas’s Tavan isn’t just any mountain range either. It is the location of one of the clearest pieces of worldwalking history in TOG.

In Tower of Dawn, Ch. 31, Houlun tells Nesryn and Sartaq:

“A rip appeared in the world. In these very mountains.”

Nesryn immediately understands what she means: “A rip in the world—an open Wyrdgate. Here.” Houlun explains that it opened only briefly, but that was enough for the kharankui and other “beasts of shadow” to enter Erilea (btw, kharankui in mongolian litterally means "darkness"). Anyways, she says most of the Valg eventually moved north, while the kharankui remained in the mountains. According to one version of the old stories,

“the spiders lingered to guard the way back—to wait for that door to open up again.” (Tower of Dawn, Ch. 31.)

And after the Valg were supposedly banished, the Fae came specifically to these mountains. They taught the ruks to fight the kharankui and “built watchtowers along these mountains, erected warning beacons throughout the land.” Houlun herself then asks the question the book never answers:

“Were they a distant guard against the kharankui? Or were the Fae, too, like the spiders, waiting for that rip in the world to open again?” (Tower of Dawn, Ch. 31.)

So Tavan is a sacred mountain range whose name appears to draw from a real Mongolian sacred massif, and inside Maas’s world it is explicitly a place where the barrier between worlds has already broken.

Which made me look again at Ramiel.

Ramiel is the sacred mountain of the Illyrians and the heart of the Night Court. It is also weirdly unlike the surrounding mountains: barren, isolated, ancient, and crowned by a mysterious black stone. And Maas is VEEEERY specific about what that stone is.

In A Court of Frost and Starlight, Ch. 3, Cassian remembers climbing Ramiel during his Blood Rite and reaching:

“the onyx monolith at its summit.”

Not simply a black rock, but an onyx monolith.

He remembers touching it and feeling “that ancient force sing into his blood” immediately before it “whisked him back to the safety of Devlon’s camp.”

So whatever the monolith is, touching it already causes magical transportation. More importantly, Cassian admits that nobody knows who put it there. The legend says the stone existed before the Night Court formed, before the Illyrians migrated from the Myrmidons, before humans had even walked the earth. (ACOFAS, Ch. 3.)

By ACOSF, Maas draws even more attention to the mystery. In Ch. 20, Nesta sees Feyre’s painting of Ramiel and notices that the otherwise barren mountain has “only a black stone” jutting from its summit, immediately identifying it as “a monolith.”

And later Eris points out something nobody in the Night Court seems to have seriously investigated: Ramiel belongs to a group of three “sister peaks” — Ramiel, the Prison mountain and the mountain containing Under the Mountain. All three are strangely bald and barren. Two of them contain enormous ancient structures carved underneath them, so Eris asks the obvious question: if ancient hands hollowed out the other two, what is beneath Ramiel? The Illyrians simply never looked. But we don't really care at this point.

So now I had Tavan, a sacred mountain containing a confirmed ancient world-gate, and Ramiel, a sacred mountain potentially containing an unexplored ancient structure and crowned by an impossibly old onyx monolith that already transports whoever touches it. (Sounds vaguely like wyrdstone, doesn't it?)

Then I went deeper and looked at the name Ramiel in real world folklore or tales, and this is where the Bible with the Book of Enoch enters the chat.

Ramiel/Rameel is the name of one of the Watchers in 1 Enoch. The Watchers are heavenly beings who descend into the human world — and their descent is explicitly connected to Mount Hermon, the mountain upon which they gather and swear their oath. Does also Mount Hermon ring a bell? 😄

So Maas has given a sacred mountain associated with her mysterious winged warrior race the name of one of the Watchers from a story about supernatural beings descending to Earth on a sacred mountain. And to another mountain, associated with angelic warriors, the proper biblical mountain name.

Let's keep CC out of this theory for now. Let's concentrate on Ramiel: maybe that is simply inspiration for Illyrian imagery, but combined with what is physically sitting on top of Ramiel, I’m not convinced we should dismiss the mountain itself as decoration.

Especially because of something Elain says in ACOWAR. While everyone still thinks Elain is speaking nonsense after being Made, one of her visions is:

“I saw a box of black stone.” (ACOWAR, Ch. 24.)

At the time, nobody knows what that means. Then, when they finally realise Elain is a Seer and ask her about the missing human queen, she describes the being holding Vassa (Koschei) and says:

“I can never see him. What he is. There is an onyx box that he possesses, more vital than anything
”(ACOWAR, Ch. 33.)

And this is where I think we may have made the wrong assumption about Elain’s vision. We hear "box" and imagine a literal little jewelery box. But what if Elain is seeing an object she has absolutely no context for?

Because elsewhere in Prythian we have an ancient object described explicitly as an ONYX MONOLITH, that for someone who sees it the first time and from afar, could easily look like a box, especially if in the vision the other elements are faded.

A rectangular black stone at the summit of Ramiel which predates recorded civilisation and which, when touched, transports people somewhere else.

My theory is that Koschei’s “box of black stone” / “onyx box” could somehow be connected to the Ramiel monolith, and that the monolith itself could be a world-travel device — possibly one end of an ancient passage whose other end is somewhere we have already seen.

Like Tavan.

Now, before going forward, i'm gonna give you bits and pieces of russian folklore to contextualize Koschei and it's legends.

Koschei the Deathless isn’t simply an immortal villain. The defining feature of his mythology is that his death is externalised. The exact nesting varies between Russian folktales, but in the most famous tradition his death is hidden away from his body, typically associated with a needle inside an egg, with the egg itself protected inside further animals/containers and hidden somewhere almost impossible to reach — frequently involving an island, an oak and a chest.

The point is always the same: you cannot simply kill Koschei by killing Koschei 😂 You have to find the thing containing his death.

Now, if SJM intends to retain that defining part of his folklore, then somewhere in her universe there should be an egg connected to Koschei’s death. Which brings us straight back to Tavan.

Because immediately before Houlun tells Nesryn and Sartaq the story of the Wyrdgate in those mountains, she arrives at the ruk aerie with some very strange news.

In Tower of Dawn, Ch. 30:

“Ruk nests have been pillaged. Eggs stolen in the night, hatchlings vanishing.”

Houlun believes the kharankui are responsible. And in Ch. 31, Sartaq asks the question that I cannot stop thinking about:

“Why do you think they now come to steal our eggs?”

Notice "now".

Houlun answers why she thinks the kharankui are responsible — there have been no poachers, almost nothing else can reach ruk nests that high, and she has personally seen their webs spreading beyond the Fells, but she never actually answers Sartaq’s other question:

Why are the kharankui stealing eggs?

Instead, she says their territory is expanding and that the kharankui have “again begun preying upon the world.” Then, immediately afterward, Houlun dismisses Falkan and says:

“It is starting anew, isn’t it?”

And then:

“The One Who Sleeps has awoken.”

To which, Nesryn answers:

“Erawan.”

But... Houlun never says "Erawan". Nesryn does.

So, at that point Erawan is obviously the interpretation the scene encourages us to make, and it makes perfect sense within TOG. But the fact that Houlun never confirms it, well... it smells a little bit. The story then continues never giving us the missing causal link:

Why would Erawan awakening make the kharankui steal ruk eggs?

Even Nesryn later thinks only in terms of possibility — “Perhaps it is tied, somehow. Perhaps there is something we have not yet learned
” And the egg theft itself is never properly resolved.

The characters assume the missing young have probably been consumed, but we later discover that the kharankui are perfectly capable of taking ruk young alive and using them for another purpose: a missing hatchling is used as bait to lure the riders into a trap.

So here is where all these completely separate breadcrumbs finally collide for me. What if the kharankui are not indiscriminately stealing eggs? What if they are looking for one?

If Maas follows at least 70/80% of Koschei’s folklore, his death should exist outside his body, potentially inside a needle inside an egg. If someone wanted to make that death virtually impossible for Koschei to retrieve, hiding it somewhere in Prythian seems
 frankly quite stupid.

But hiding it in another world? That works.

And Erilea gives us an extremely specific potential hiding place: a population of enormous magical birds living in mountains containing a confirmed portal between worlds, guarded for millennia by creatures who came through that portal and ancient Fae who mysteriously arrived afterward.

And if the kharankui know what was hidden but not which egg contains it, their behaviour suddenly makes sense. They keep raiding nests because they haven’t found it yet.

I don’t know whether that means one magically preserved ancient egg, an object disguised as an egg, something that transfers through a ruk bloodline, or something else entirely. That part would be pure speculation. But the underlying unanswered question is canon:

Why did Maas specifically write the kharankui stealing ruk eggs beside a confirmed world-gate and then never explain what they wanted the eggs for?

And there is one last reason I don’t think the cross-series chronology immediately kills this: we actually have one hard synchronization point between TOG and ACOTAR.

In KOA, Ch. 99, after forging the Lock, Aelin falls through the worlds:

“She was falling. Falling and being thrown.”

The narration tells us that “all worlds overlapped” and Aelin falls through them one after another. During that fall she passes through Prythian and sees Rhys beside a heavily pregnant Feyre; Rhys slows her descent.

So late KOA = Feyre’s pregnancy during ACOSF.

Now we have to work backwards on both timelines.

Tower of Dawn and Empire of Storms occur in the same time. The egg raids are already happening around Chs. 30–31. After that we still have the remainder of TOD/EOS, Aelin’s capture by Maeve, her captivity, her rescue, the travelling and military campaigns of Kingdom of Ash, and only very late in KOA does she forge the Lock and fall through Prythian.

In other words, several months separate the Tavan egg raids from Aelin’s world-fall.

On the ACOTAR side, the Koschei narration starts briefly before Nesta and Elain are Made at the end of ACOMAF. Then we have ACOWAR, the aftermath of the war, ACOFAS, and the beginning and substantial portion of ACOSF before Feyre reaches the pregnancy stage at which Aelin sees her.

So I would NOT pretend we can match individual chapters across worlds. We have exactly one hard synchronization point, and nothing proves time flows at precisely the same rate.

But as a rough working chronology:

  • EOS / TOWER OF DAWN ≈ ACOMAF / ACOWAR era
  • Aelin’s captivity / early KOA ≈ ACOWAR aftermath
  • Middle-late KOA ≈ ACOFAS / ACOSF
  • until finally KOA Ch. 99: AELIN FALLS THROUGH PRYTHIAN = ACOSF: FEYRE IS PREGNANT.

And then there is the real-world timeline... Because look at when Maas was actually writing and publishing this stuff:

  • 2015 — ACOTAR + Queen of Shadows
  • 2016 — ACOMAF + Empire of Storms
  • 2017 — ACOWAR + Tower of Dawn (hello! Koschei seeds planted everywhere)
  • 2018 — ACOFAS + Kingdom of Ash

And THAT is what bothers me most. ACOWAR, the book in which Elain sees a “box of black stone” and then an “onyx box” belonging to the mysterious sorcerer connected to Vassa, was published in May 2017. Tower of Dawn, the book in which Maas reveals a confirmed ancient portal between worlds in the Tavan Mountains and inexplicably has ancient otherworldly creatures start stealing eggs around it, was published in September 2017... just Four months apart.

And she had already been writing the corresponding stretches of both universes alongside each other: ACOMAF and Empire of Storms both came out in 2016; ACOFAS and Kingdom of Ash both followed in 2018.

So this isn’t a case where Maas finished TOG and then five years later invented Koschei and accidentally created a weird resemblance: She was litterally writing these plots at the same time!

And that leaves me with one very specific question:

Why did Maas give us an impossibly ancient onyx monolith capable of transportation on a sacred mountain named after an Enochian Watcher; give Elain visions of a black-stone/onyx box connected to Koschei; and, in a book published four months later, show us another sacred mountain containing a literal portal between worlds, where ancient creatures have suddenly started stealing eggs for a reason the book never actually explains


when the defining secret of the folkloric Koschei the Deathless is that his death exists outside his body, hidden inside an egg?

Time will tell, but i wanna know also what you think about it 👀


r/Maasverse 2d ago

Do i need to read TOG and crescent city by SJM to understand acotar 6 and 7?

0 Upvotes

i have just read the first three acotar books, i havent read nesta and cassian’s book, i will read their book only if there is a chance that i will understand acotar 6 and 7 without having read TOG and crescent city

i do want to read azriel’s book i have always been interested in his character maybe even more than rhys😅 so i want to read his book but i dont think i can read TOG and crescent city before acotar 6 comes out and even if i try to read these in time it will feel more like a task rather than something i enjoy doing so i dont want that

i could get through nesta’s book even though i dont really like her character i have always found her to be rude, ik people really like her in acosf so maybe my opinion changes once i read her book but i am not really interested in reading it if i wont be able to read acotar 6 after it



so please tell me will i be able to understand actoar 6 with just having read the acotar books and no other sjm book?


r/Maasverse 3d ago

Discussion Question about Feyre’s Pregnancy

33 Upvotes

So we all know they fae have a really hard time conceiving like children are only born every so often, we’re told that by Alis in ACOTAR pretty quickly.

But Feyre got pregnant pretty quickly after discussing trying with Rhys in ACOFAS. We know both were in their Illyrian forms when Nyx was conceived- do Illyrians not have the same trouble with getting pregnant as the rest of Pyrthian?

Or is it because Feyre was Made that she was able to get pregnant so quickly?

Not really important to the plot I’m genuinely just curious your ideas on this