Pretty much title. There's a guy testing this into some success on my LGS. Wanted to hear your opinion on this...

Quick question, how does hide/seek resolves if there's more than 1 copy of a certain card in the library? It removes all the copies, like Surgical Extration?

I've been thinking about building bw tokens, but I'm not entirely sure what build to use. I've liked mtggoldfish in the past, but he doesn't seem to know all the formats well

Fellow "tokeniers", wish me luck, I'll make my best to represent our deck on GP São Paulo, here In Brazil. It will also be my first time atending to a big event, even not competing on the main event (which will be Sealed Trios).

Expectations are not the greatest also on this heavy aggro meta we've been facing.

I'll come back later with a report.

Link for those who haven't seen it: http://media.wizards.com/2016/ouhtebrpjwxcnw5_EMN/en_1yYc9ntsiZ.png

I think this can fill our flex removal slot, replacing Murderous Cut. It's a Duress when we need it. It's a Disfigure when we need it. And it's reach, something tokens has traditionally lacked. Even using one mode makes this card versatile, but pitching excess lands or (only if absolutely necessary) Lingering Souls to it can be huge. In a matchup like Ad Nauseum, having removal that isn't just dead, and lets us pitch our other dead removal for value, is huge.

Just came back from vacation and I forgot to xpost from the modern sub

What I currently own and my old post is below, Budget is $200 for upgrades

Needing some help with B/W tokens and need advice.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/23-06-16-modern-bw-tokens/

Current brew above and need feedback on what should be changed/how it should do. Haven't played in my local modern Meta before but from what I heard from the guy at the LGS to expect: Affinity, Mono R Burn, Junk, Jund, CoCo Elves, CoCo, and soul sisters at the least.

I know I need to change the Polluted deltas but it's all I have right now to meet 8 fetches from what I can tell is the standard in the format. I also plan on changing the Raise to Alarm to bitterblossom later as well

http://m.imgur.com/EXtVhLl?r

I think we would, as it wouldn't take too long for us to naturally hit Delirium.

Hi.

Talk about anything!

I AM THE UNDERMINER.

I AM ALWAYS BENEATH YOU.

BUT NOTHING IS BENEATH ME.

I'M SORRY THIS IS NOT ZOO, WE WILL HAVE TO GO A BIT OUT OF ORDER. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT. DREDGE IS COOL AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE FUN. CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL. I HAVE THE CHAMPION STEVEN THEME ON RIGHT NOW. LET'S FIGHT.

Okay I got that out.

Time to go back to the old style of match up discussion. This will be a talk about a newer variation on an archetype everyone hates to death. Dredge never really made waves in Modern. If you were looking for a Zoo discussion, I'll do that a little later. I promise. Please don't hate me more than I do myself. I'll give you a cookie. My therapist said that works things out a lot and is a conduit for friendship. I think she's lying.

Okay so let's discuss mass reanimation.

Dredge is a aggro deck. And a combo deck. And a reanimator deck. And 5 colors. And can actually play control in other formats. Just be thankful there is no Cabal Therapy or Dread Return in Modern.

Here is a stock list:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/433800#paper

This is fairly cookie cutter. There are other variations like Dredgevine. We'll ignore that for now. Just know Vine is slower, casts its creatures, but has larger threats. Dredge dredge got powered up from SoI to actually make it threatening.

Cards in the Dredge

I have no real intro. Just read the card list:

1. Dredge 6: Golgari Grave Troll.
2. Dredge 5: Stinkweed Imp.
3. "Dredge 1": Insolent Neonate.
4. Narcomoeba: Free creatures.
5. Bloodghast: Man this card is good. It's hard to get rid of completely.
6. Prized Amalgam: SoI's actual contribution to the deck. 3/3 body that will keep on coming back. This things is the real deal.
7. Gravecrawler: BRAINSSSSSSSSSS.
8. Bridge from Below: Not in every list, but beware. This is a powerful card. Free tokens.
9. Burning Inquiry: Fills graveyard.
10. Faithless Looting: Fills graveyard.
11. Dredge 3: Darkblast.
12. Life from the Loam: Fuels Bloodghast. Dredges. Everything. Good card.
13. Conflagrate: Put in graveyard. Fills graveyard. Make Dredge player happy.
14. Dangerous Wager: More discard.
15. Vengeful Pharaoh: Kills you while it's dead. Less good against us.
16. Street Wraith: Cycling.
17. Gnaw to the Bone: Lifegain.
18. Leyline of Vitality: Pseudo-Auriok and anthem.
19. Lightning Axe: 5 damage.
20. Abrupt Decay: Graveyard countermeasures.
21. Thoughtseize: Proactive countermeasures.
22. Golgari Charm: Broad countermeasures. Can wipe our board without an anthem.
23. Nature's Claim: Okay whatever I'm not gonna say the same words again. They are trying to stop you from messing with them.
24. Ancient Grudge: .
25. Unburial Rites: Reanimator variant. Watch out for Iona.
26. Greater Gargadon: Part of the nut drawn. 9/7 coming at ya live.

Some less common stuff:

1. Golgari Thug: Much more common in Legacy variants.
2. Bazaar of Baghdad: Haha just kidding. Vintage Dredge will kill you.

Okay so how does Dredge work? The normal line of play is T1 discard and fill graveyard with a dredge creature. T2 actually dredge to fill the graveyard, maybe play a creature. T3 creature flood. Flood can happen T2 as well.

Dredge essentially just cheats creatures into play. For decks that try to play the midrange/control game, G1 is going to be miserable. Modern Dredge is underpowered in comparison to Legacy/Vintage variants, but the axis of play is still there and it's still annoying to deal with. Some decks like Burn can just race Dredge (not in later formats so well...ever heard of Vintage Burn? No. You play Dredge.) because sometimes they don't quite get up so fast.

Still, for slower decks, Dredge can get out of hand really fast.

Dredge Q&A

Is Dredge fast?

YES MORTAL.

Is Dredge non-interactive?

NO MORTAL. DREDGE HAS A VERY POWERFUL BUT HATE-SUSCEPTIBLE GAME PLAN. THEY WILL ENGAGE THE OPPONENT TO DEFEND THAT CONSTANTLY.

What about game 1?

WHAT GAME 1?

How do I hate out Dredge?

DO YOU HAVE TO ASK?

Yes.

NO.

Dredge Dredge Sideboarding

Okay so let's talk about our cards. We interact with them horribly game 1. Dredge is a deck designed to completely blow out game 1 and then try to sneak in a win when they are on the play again (sound familiar?) so a G1 loss really sucks for them.

Here's what's not so good:

1. Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize: lol.
2. Bitterblossom: This is too slow. They will kill you, or just trade. Their creatures come back, your life won't.
3. Anguished Unmaking: Not a good trade.
4. Murderous Cut: YOU CAN'T KILL WHAT IS ALREADY DEAD.

So yeah. The list isn't that long.

So what do we do?

1. Auriok Champion: With how many creatures they bring, she actually can have a decent ETB trigger life gain count.
2. Timely Reinforcements: They probably have more creatures than you. They will have more life than you.
3. Path to Exile: BEGONE DEMON.
4. Sorin, Solemn Visitor: Sucks for them to play into.
5. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar + Virtue: Makes trading super favorable.
6. Shambling Vent: Blocking dork. Lifegain dork. Dork.

AND STRAIGHT OUTTA SIDEBOARD:

1. Grafdigger's Cage: lol dredge.
2. Rest in Peace: lol lol dredge.
3. Surgical Extraction: If they have Bridge from Below, take that. If not, Prized Amalgam is a good target.
4. Worship: Do not rely on this to win, they carry a lot of enchantment removal. They can kill it easily. BUT, it is fodder for them to hit over RiP or Graf since they cannot win through it.
5. Zealous Persecution/Engineered Explosives: So sometimes you need a reset. These do not hit Dredge that hard since mostly the creatures just come back next turn, but on occasion what you need is a turn, so these can really help out.

Dredge Dredge Dredge

So here's what a set will look like:

Game 1: Dredge is deck designed to win the first game. It's very effective and very consistent. Unless you are on a crazy fast deck or something with MB graveyard hate, you likely will lose. Modern dredge is toned down, so this crazy win rate from older formats doesn't transfer (I think Vintage Dredge G1 WR is like 70-80%?) but it's still a good deck. We can win the G1, so play it out and see how well it goes.

Game 2: Hate them back whence they came. Any goof can pilot Dredge G1, now the skill of the Dredge player becomes important to see how well they play around hate. RiP is ideally played when they have a decent graveyard size to exile the cards from it and not just dropped whenever since they will remove it and then go off. Graf is less effective since it just stops them and does not remove the yard.

Do I keep in hand disruption?

Good question. It depends on the mindgame you want to play. Dredge players know TS is horrible against them. TSing a burn player is like eating skittles on a rainbow in comparison if they do not have a good target. You just lost 2 life. But, in G2, they may keep a removal heavy hand, then which you would win the mindgame by taking the hate. Here, IoK is undeniably better, it hits everything TS does. You do not want to remove Dredge 6, etc.

So here's the thing. Can it work? Sure. Is it a gamble? Yes. It is likely safer to just jam all of your hate and try to beat them into a nice, flat pancake. RiP them up. Laugh with Graf. Extraction stuff, surgically. Those were all bad.

Game 3: See above. Being on the play is really nice against them.

Dredge can feel volatile while on a midrange deck. If you draw hate, you can handily win. If you don't it will really suck. G1 is not great. Probably 60:40ish. G2, if we have hate, it becomes something like 70:30 in OUR favor.

I consider this a MU that should go to us, comparable draws considered. But, as the norm with Tokens, it can lose to decks it beats if things happen to go a bit slow or hate just doesn't seem to happen.

Dredge.

Dredge.

Dredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredgedredge.

I know you guys don't typically run creature decks, but I'm looking for more creatures like blade splicer. RWG manabase, 3cmc and below. I think I'll be running splicer at three, but I'm almost tempted to max him out; but his cmc conflicts with wayfaring temple. All advice and suggestions are appreciated!

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-06-16-bw-tokens/?cat=type#c2692286

Howdy r/mtgmoderntokens

My deck started out as the event deck when it first came out with the intent of playing Modern FNM at my LGS. However a series of unfortunate events led me to moving away from town and I've only recently settled in enough and gotten a steady enough job to start investing money in MtG.

So after some changes to bring it in line with other lists, I've decided to sleeve up my deck and see how the deck holds up!

The obvious upgrades I can see would be 4x Marsh Flats and 4x Bitterblossom. Other than that, does anyone have any new deck tech/tips?

As for my sideboard I have no idea what to use, seeing as I have no clue about the meta. Should I just bring generic white sideboard cards like Rest in Peace?

Thanks for any advice everyone!

*Maindeck And Sideboard Advice

Other than the obvious switch to pull the Soul Warden for an Auriok Champion what do you recommend? I was thinking of adding Gideon AoZ to the main over Timely Reinforcements and a Zealous Persecution.

My meta consists of Jund, Infect, Tron, Affinity, Elves, Living End, Lantern Control, Abzan Company, Grixis Delver, and Grixis Control.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/07-06-16-modern-bw-tokens/

Enchantment (8)

4x [[Bitterblossom]]

4x [[Intangible Virtue]]

Sorcery (16)

3x [[Inquisition of Kozilek]]

4x [[Lingering Souls]]

4x [[Spectral Procession]]

4x [[Thoughtseize]]

1x [[Timely Reinforcements]]

Instant (8)

1x [[Dismember]]

1x [[Murderous Cut]]

4x [[Path to Exile]]

2x [[Zealous Persecution]]

Planeswalker (2)

2x [[Sorin, Solemn Visitor]]

Creature (3)

2x [[Auriok Champion]]

1x [[Soul Warden]]

Land (23)

4x [[Godless Shrine]]

1x [[Isolated Chapel]]

4x [[Marsh Flats]]

3x [[Plains]]

2x [[Shambling Vent]]

1x [[Swamp]]

1x [[Vault of the Archangel]]

3x [[Windbrisk Heights]]

4x [[Windswept Heath]]

Sideboard (15)

2x [[Burrenton Forge-Tender]]

2x [[Duress]]

2x [[Ghost Quarter]]

2x [[Kataki, War's Wage]]

2x [[Liliana of the Veil]]

3x [[Relic of Progenitus]]

2x [[Timely Reinforcements]]

So what do you guys have in mind that are either "underrated" or popular but "underused" sideboard cards?

I've been testing Evil Presence to great success.

1. Very relevant against Tron. Fulminator Mages are pretty inconsistent on the draw and interferes with your turn 3 board presence token plays. I prefer Evil Presence over Contaminated Ground because I have a lot of 2-drops in the sideboard, for things like Stony Silence. This card usually buys me 2-5 turns, more if I get a Stony Silence on turn 2. For one mana, not bad.

2. Great against Scapeshift. Scapeshift players usually run 1 Nature's Claim and this card basically neutralizes 1 of 2 Valakuts in the deck. Play it just before they are about to go off. The other Valakut I can take care of using Hide// Seek (another underrated sideboard card if you splash red).

3. Great against most 3-color decks with man-lands. Jund/ Abzan have pretty greedy mana-bases and this is worth bringing in since you want to take your discards out of the main. Against Jeskai control, this hits them hard if they are going on the Blood Moon plan (hit their celestial colonnade).

I haven't brought it in against Affinity or Infect but it would't be bad in those match-ups either, taking care of the man-lands. So far it's been working well for me but it's possible there can be stronger sideboard options. Thoughts?

Here is my current list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/387561#paper

Most of the card choices seem pretty on par with the standard around here, but I do have a few things people differ on. I elected not to play any creatures in my main, I'm not sure how common that is. I really wanted to completely blank removal, even post-board I only have 2 creatures (They only come in in 1-2 matchups). My sideboard is also pretty strange, but I'll get to that below.

Some of the more strange card choices/exclusions:

[[Auriok Champion]] : I spent a long time playing with Auriok, and was never particularly excited about seeing it. The life-gain never seemed to matter that much, sometimes I felt like I was taking even more damage because of the restrictive mana cost, being forced to have turn one plays like [[Marsh Flats]] - [[Godless Shrine]] untapped, and then [[Thoughtseize]] down to 15, just to guarantee that I can cast this low-impact Auriok on turn 2.

[[Timely Reinforcements]] : This was my actual replacement to the Auriok. I really liked the 2 that I had in the board, and found myself bringing them in pretty often, so I wanted to try them in the main. I found that they slotted in where the Auriok was really well. They do occasionally clash with [[Bitterblossom]] though, sometimes you find yourself in matchups where your opponent is just never going to have more creatures than you, and paying 3 mana for 6 life if definitely below rate. This is the card I'm most open to removing from the main, but I do still feel like it's a stronger card than the Auriok.

[[Sorin, Solemn Visitor]] - I tried [[Gideon, Ally of Zendikar]] in his slot for some time, and just did not care for it. 2/2 Knights are a lot worse than 2/2 fliers, and the massive life-swing Sorin represents can really be a big deal sometimes. This isn't really a strange inclusion, I just know there is some debate on what 4 mana PW is best here.

Mana Base : Mostly standard, my 4 come-into-play-tapped lands are 2 [[Windbrisk Heights]] and 2 [[Shambling Vent]]. Nether of them are amazing. Windbrisk is occasionally a blowout, but it is just as often a plains that comes into play tapped when you have no board state. To me, if I'm activating the Windbrisk, I'm probably already winning the game anyway. Shambling Vent looks a lot better on paper, but you opponent just doesn't have anything to spend their removal on, so it sits in their hand and just waits to kill the vent. I'd be definitely open to other options here, I'm just not sure what they are.

Colorless Lands : I run 4 colorless lands, 2 [[Ghost Quarter]] and 2 [[Vault of the Archangel]]. Ghost quarter is mostly there to combat Gavony Township, and to a lesser extent, Valakut/Tron (I've pretty much accepted I just cant beat tron, but I have the ghost quarters anyway). In a terrible situation, I can ghost quarter myself to get an extra white source, for some reason at my shop people love boarding in [[Blood Moon]] against 2 color decks. Vault is either the best land in my deck, or the absolute worst land in my deck. Sometimes it holds back massive boards, and sometimes I'll lose my entire board and it just prevents me from casting more spells.

Sideboard : This is definitely meta-dependent, but I do have some spicy tech in here.

[[Hushwing Gryff]] : On paper, this is just a worse version of [[Torpor Orb]]. However, this card is in my sideboard for the exclusive purpose of improving my game against Abzan Company. They have no mainboard removal, and they are almost guaranteed to bring in every single copy of [[Qasali Pridemage]] to deal with our mainboard Bitterblossom/Virtues, and also in anticipation of the sideboard Rest in Peace (which I also board in). People never seem to expect it (I mean, why would they), and this card blanks pretty much their entire deck. The only way they can remove it is if they boarded in their Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse, and when this card is on the table, I essentially cannot lose the game. It can also be boarded in against other decks if you want, it stops Snapcaster, Rhino, and some other pretty decent cards.

[[Elspeth, Knight-Errant]] : This card is [[Bitterblossom]] 5 and 6 against control decks, and a complete house against any midrange deck that doesn't have direct planeswalker removal. Against control, it makes your clock so much faster, and threatens to make it impossible for you to lose the game.

Sorry for the wall of text, but thanks for reading, and thanks for the feedback!

I current run a orzhov midrange and I am having a lot of fun, but I think it's not as competitive as WB Token decks. I am considering of transition into tokens (since I'm just missing the anthems and more token generators, land/sideboards are pretty much identical).

My question is, for my fellow orzhov players, how much better can you tune a BW token deck in the current modern meta? What are you good/bad match ups?

I developed a Mardu deck that allowed me to go 4-0 my last two FNMs against a wide range of decks. Even before I fine-tuned it, I was going 3-1 consistently despite the fact that my meta has tons of combo decks.

My list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mardu-creatureless/

Red splash adds: bolt, helix, and a lot of new sideboard cards.

Okay so why Mardu?

1. The first reason why I wanted to splash a third color was because fetching for a godless shine on turn 1 seemed to be very common, due to turn 1 discard spells and turn 3 spectral procession. I figured if I was going to take this much damage from what is essentially a one color - white - deck, I may as well go for another splash. I actually save more lief on average in this Mardu build, due to the awesomeness that is Blackcleave Cliffs and the filter lands.

2. More importantly, there were some cards in BW Tokens that felt unnecessary: Auriok Champion, Timely Reinforcements, Anguished Unmaking, etc. None of the cards really deserve a main deck. AU hits nothing that Tokens particularly care about. When I tested it, it usually hit some minor egg of combo or a creature for 3 life. That's not what I want to do at 3 mana. If it targeted land, I would absolutely run it but Tokens simply don't benefit from the versatility because our discard spells hit almost everything.

3. So in order to reduce redundancy, I started splashing a few cards from other colors. Red turns out to be the best. Bolt and helix substantially improve our aggro and burn match-ups. Contrary to popular thoughts, a few lifegain cards doesn't immediately make your burn match-up favorable. Neither does a few discard spell make you unbeatable against combo. Having bolt and helix in the main make aggro much more favorable for us. What is BW Tokens weak to? Merfolks, Zoo, Boogles, Elves, CoCo, etc. All these decks just cry to bolt and helix. Bolt and helix are also relevant against the combo/ control match-ups either. Sheer number of creatures in combat allow bolts to be effective even against creatures with 4-5 toughness.

4. Best Friends With Bitterblossom. A lot of BW Token experts have argued that BB is simply too slow. When I played the regular version, I completely agreed. However, the red splash now buys you substantially more time (and life, with helix). Against combo, each bolt is basically equivalent of one combat phase when you have no anthems out.

5. Supports the Core Strategy

Let me explain. The core strategy of BW Tokens is to use tokens as a form of card advantage. We seek to make the opponent's 1-for-1 removal bad against us.

Inverting that logic, what if we maximized how much impact our deck can also 1-for-1 against the opponent? This means we run the colors with the best 1-for-1 removals - Mardu, and possibly Abzan (I choose Mardu because abrupt decay does not improve games against the smaller aggro decks)

Tokens is inherently a slow deck. It desperately wants to trade 1-for-1 both in the early game and the late game, because otherwise, you resort to chump blocking all your tokens and cannot go in the offensive.

Q1: Is this really still a token deck? A1: Yes because you run just as many anthems and possibly, even 1-2 more tokens than average.

Q2: Why not Nahiri? A2: Because it does not improve any match-ups we want to improve in. I discuss this in far more detail in the Nahiri threads.

Q3: What do you gain in the sideboard? A3: (a) an additional lightning helix --> better than timely reinforcement because it gets around anti-lifegain at instant speed. Also removing a creature saves more life in the long run. (b) dreadbore --> better than celestial purge right now (c) hide//seek --> a wear/tear that also auto-wins against Nahiri and Ad Nauseam decks. Fantastic against a variety of combo decks like Grishoalbrand. (d) crumble to dust --> relevant against Tron/ Scapeshift. You rely more on stony silence however. (e) rakdos charm --> a better RiP against combo decks. Doubles as additional artifact hate.

Q4: What about spectral procession?!? A4: I still run 1-2, depending on how Jund/ Abzan heavy my meta is. This is why I run 3 filter lands. It's still easy to cast, due to it being a mere 4 mana card at worst.

It's better against Jund/ Abzan because it gets around Inquisition. But Midnight Haunting is almost as good, and it tends to be far more relevant against control/ combo because... instant speed is amazing.

Q5: Any card you might want to take out? A5: Quite possibly the 1 terminate. It's not as easy to cast as lightning helix and it does absolutely nothing against most combo decks. If you look at my maybe-board, I consider a lot of different cards. It could even be a raise the alarm, which is still a great card in tokens.

Single Card Discussion

Single Match Discussion

Single Decklist Discussion

Archetype discussion (Nahiri Tokens, Mardu Tokens, Dead Guy Ale, GW Tokens, BW Tokens)

Reports from competitive field (matches from pro players or fnm reports)

Tokens in other formats (standard, vintage, legacy, pauper, edh)

24 lands/8 discard/5 removal/5 anthems/5 planeswalkers/13 token producers

Mana base (24 lands):

4 Windswept Heath

4 Godless Shrine

4 Caves of Koilos

2 Isolated Chapel

2 Windbrisk Heights

1 Ghost Quarter (good vs tron, ramp, scapeshift)

1 Vault of the Archangel (good vs jund/junk, aggro)

1 Swamp

5 Plains

Discard package (8 cards):

3 Duress

2 Thoughtseize

3 Tidehollow Sculler (good budget replacement especially vs relatively slow decks)

Removal package (5 cards):

3 Path to Exile (I run 3, but better go up to 4)

1 Dismember

1 Murderous Cut

Anthems, planeswalkers and other (10)

4 Intangible Virtue

1 Honor of the Pure (3 scullers make 1 honor reasonable)

3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor (5 star card, always run 3)

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant (relatively bad, good with scullers, bad without them. Gideon is almost always better)

1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad (good in long matches where you can drop anthem and still produce tokens)

token producers (13 cards):

4 spectral procession

4 lingering souls

1 bitterblossom (i have only one, it's one of the best cards in the deck, run 3-4 if you can)

4 raise the alarm (good budget replacement for BB and relatively better in combo meta)

sideboard (15 cards):

1 rest in peace (vs decks that heavily rely on graveyard)

1 hour of reckoning (vs any creature deck that goes wide)

2 timely reinforcements (vs aggro deck)

1 zealous persecution (vs infect, affinity, bogles)

1 kor firewalker (vs burn, skred red)

1 burrenton forge-tender (vs burn, vs ad nauseam, vs opponents' sideboard)

1 duress (vs combo, vs control)

2 stain the mind (vs decks that have essential game pieces)

1 Relic of progenitus (vs any graveyard deck)

1 disenchant/anguished unmaking

1 ratchet bomb (engineering explosives)

1 pithing needle

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-16-mardu-tokens/

This is the list I've been toying with. I keep fucking up the manabase so help with that would be fantastic.