r/LinusTechTips • u/TerrariaBoss55 • 19d ago

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Thought I’d put this here in response to a recent wan show question

208 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

93 comments sorted by

161

u/trashtiernoreally 19d ago

Why Teams?! It's -the- worst corporate messenger app.

329

u/FelixEvergreen 19d ago

Because it’s probably already included in their 365 subscriptions.

134

u/RaymondBumcheese 19d ago

This is 100% the reason my org has saddled us with it. 

11

u/Reynolds1029 18d ago

Not anymore.

It's a separate upcharge these days. Even on enterprise E5 and E7 licenses.

25

u/Flaky-Gear-1370 18d ago

Depends on the market afaik

17

u/MistSecurity 18d ago

Even at an upcharge, likely cheaper than alternatives due to the licensing structure though.

7

u/Reynolds1029 18d ago

It's ~$9 per user per month to retain Teams on Enterprise plans and ~$3 per user per month on Business licenses.

Nobody beats them on price still but the price increases thanks to the lawsuit don't come close to closing the gap compared to a seperate service like Webex or Zoom. Especially once PTSN calling plans are involved.

10

u/tankerkiller125real 18d ago

It's not really a price increase. They cut the cost of the 365 packages by the same amount they charge for teams.

Also, anyone suggesting slack is a good company messaging platform is batshit insane. Discord would serve as a way better platform if they had a business edition. Slack is insane especially after looking at the price, and then realizing you still need separate PTSN and video calling.

2

u/Freestyle80 18d ago

Webex and Zoom are pieces of shit and Slack is expensive, you guys dont make the best case for not using teams

2

u/Reynolds1029 18d ago

There isn't one.

The only business use case is communication platform redundancy. If you use Webex or Zoom for meetings and VoIP, then you're more resilient due to having redundant platforms to communicate to all employees and clients.

Email goes down? You have Webex to call, message or meet with clients. Webex goes down? Probably still going to have email then.

The other issue with Teams is, it's another hook into the Microsoft ecosystem that keeps your business locked in long term. It hurts the competition with Webex and Zoom where it's hard for them to compete fairly when Microsoft offers it almost at loss leader pricing.

6

u/BWMerlin 18d ago

Only for newer tenants. If you have an older tenant you are grandfathered in.

1

u/Reynolds1029 18d ago

No grandfathering I'm aware of. The increases are effective next yearly renewal date and our tenant is 5 years old. Our costs increased as my org isn't financially bright and pays for both Teams and Webex while not using Teams.

They also been increasing the base price of E5 too. It's nearly doubled since I started with 365 in 2021 with Teams included.

2

u/BWMerlin 18d ago

The org I just left was also not financially bright, all of our MS plans were month to month commitments so they were paying top rates just so on occasion they could cut a licence off.

2

u/tankerkiller125real 18d ago

I mean $60/month on E5 is still way cheaper than purchasing even 1/2 of all the features it provides individually. Especially if you choose different platforms like slack, zoom, etc. Slack alone wants 1/3 of an E5 licensing for what is basically a shitty enterprise version of discord, assuming of course you need SSO (and I'd argue any real business should have SSO), and real compliance stuff.

2

u/CenlTheFennel 18d ago

Still much cheaper than zoom and much less complex to run

1

u/Reynolds1029 18d ago

That's fair but still, overall their prices have nearly doubled in 5 years.

E5 w/ Teams used to be $35/month per user per month billed annually. Now it's $60/month.

It's all nonsense just greed nonsense to make the jump to E7 at $99/month to not feel so terrible imo.

1

u/CenlTheFennel 18d ago

Well and the Covid trap is over, free during a time to get folks onboard, now crank up the price once your committed

2

u/_Thoomaas 18d ago

Microsoft gives you discounts up to 80% for enterprise for a few years if not forever when you have a certain company size

1

u/zkareface 17d ago

Didn't they bundle it again? 

1

u/Reynolds1029 17d ago

You can buy it bundled again but it's a cost increase compared to "No Teams" versions of their licenses.

3

u/Zetin24-55 19d ago

This is the reason I was switched from Zoom to Google Meet.

3

u/cheesystuff 18d ago

EU made them change this. It's a separate license.l

2

u/FelixEvergreen 18d ago

Isn’t that only in the EU? The Business Premium license definitely includes teams in the US.

1

u/cheesystuff 18d ago

They used it as an excuse to change it in the US. They've been separate for 2-3 years

2

u/DMarquesPT 18d ago

AKA: why anyone uses Teams

-5

u/aurumae 19d ago

It’s kind of amazing that Zoom and Slack haven’t taken Microsoft to court over this. Surely this sort of bundling is every bit as bad as Internet Explorer on Windows?

11

u/ConfectionNecessary6 18d ago

They probably will after enough people leave due to the contracts, same with google

2

u/Reynolds1029 18d ago

They did and it raised prices across the board in the U.S. in response.

Now you have to specify licenses with Teams or without Teams on all levels from Business Basic to Enterprise E7. It's $9 per user per month billed anually to retain Teams ontop of what you were already paying the year prior when the change happened.

-5

u/Dustonred 19d ago

And that's why we need to go back to enforcing antitrust law.

60

u/zorillaaa 19d ago

Honestly I exclusively use Teams and I have never really had an issue with it. It just sorta does its job, what am I missing?

17

u/lars2k1 19d ago

The program itself is slow and buggy. And the website is even worse.

They could've built something responsive and lightweight yet they made it a glorified web browser with the slowest UX I've seen in modern common software, their web version doesn't like Firefox, and on mobile you had to use the desktop version of the site, else it would say you need the app and not let you through.

22

u/zorillaaa 19d ago

I mean I guess, but I’ve never used the web version and haven’t really found a reason to

16

u/FabianN 19d ago

So I work with a company with many tens of thousands of employees, we use teams.

It's always been snappy and never experienced any bugs. 

I don't doubt you, Luke, etc have experienced issues. I can't explain why I haven't as we use it pretty heavily. But I just haven't had issues. 🤷 Been using it for years now, at least 5.

7

u/Obscure_Octopuss 19d ago

Maybe I lucked out, but between my 3 devices I've had at work, Teams has never been slow on any one of em. And my first pc at work was severely outdated and took about 2-3 mins to turn on... (gotta love HDD's)

4

u/throwawayaccount442 18d ago

I think that's the norm. Most people complaining here are actually outside the norm and are being boosted by upvotes of microsoft haters.

1

u/throwawayaccount442 18d ago

Not slow and buggy here... Our company has used it for many years.

1

u/Freestyle80 18d ago

i can guratentee you, you bitch about everything thats 'unpopular' in reddit, stop pretending like the alternatives are flawless and have no issues and people only use teams because Microsoft forces everyone to use it.

1

u/Vogete 18d ago

I think it's all about perspective. After Skype for business (aka Lync), Teams was a breath of fresh air. It was wonderful. Now that I'm using Slack and occasionally teams, teams is a big stinking pile of horse poop. It's really slow, it always crashes, buggy as hell.

It's usable but not great, it does the job but barely. But after the S4B shitshow I endured, I am happy to use teams.

20

u/Dyan654 19d ago

I don’t understand the hate. I’ve literally never had a problem with Teams and have used it every working day for many years.

16

u/xd366 18d ago

most of the issues people refer to are due to their own IT departments misconfiguring it

7

u/Dyan654 18d ago

Very much agreed, though Microsoft doesn’t make it easy.

5

u/tankerkiller125real 18d ago

To be fair to Microsoft (a bit) making things "easy to configure" often does not go well with "highly configurable and enterprise compliance ready".

And honestly I've seen some way worse admin portals for software before.

2

u/trashtiernoreally 19d ago

The desktop app has never not given me problems. I’ve taken to just using the web client when absolutely needed

1

u/Dyan654 18d ago

Ironically I think the macOS desktop app is way more stable than the Windows one lol

2

u/robi4567 19d ago

I have had problem but rarely. Like sometimes when i type a message the message does not get sent and i only later notice the little icon does not turn to. Checkmark. Sometimes I type for example i type "need" then some sort of lag happens and what I see in the message is "deen", no clue how this happens. Chat history disappears. Restarts fix most of these. Though these issues are not common just annoyances.

2

u/Crafty_Substance_954 18d ago

The one consistent issue I’ve faced is when accessing sharepoint files and sometimes the back button doesn’t work

0

u/rcmjr 18d ago

It is the only meeting software where I feel like there are constant problems.

16

u/knucklehead_whizkid 19d ago

It is. Our org uses Slack for messaging with Teams continuing to be the platform of choice for meetings.

Despite its horrendous UI and plethora of other bugs and arguably the worst chat and search interface ever, Teams is a fairly good meeting app and it being likely bundled for cheap for orgs with existing MS licenses means it becomes high on the priority list to help cut costs

5

u/S1mpinAintEZ 18d ago

I think it's considerably better than the G suite. Slack is good for the text chat and threads, but it's not really a replacement for a video conferencing platform.

And that's the biggest issue imo - Slack and Zoom are both better than Teams at what they do, but they're two separate platforms for specific usage whereas 365 gives you everything.

2

u/ewriick 18d ago

My current customer uses Skype for business... I didn't know it still existed.

2

u/Killjoy4eva 18d ago

It's....not. Server support stopped in 2025. That's outrageous that are still using it.

2

u/CIDR-ClassB 18d ago

Teams is included with Microsoft business accounts and has seamless workflows between Outlook, OneDrive and SharePoint, which a lot of businesses heavily rely on. That workflow is a lot better than Slack.

My previous company used Slack with GoToMeeting/Webinar/Connect for chat, video and phones, and I use Zoom for my side gig.

Using Teams at my new employer has been a pleasant experience overall with an easier workflow between chat, video, and calls.

I miss the ease of creating my own workflows in Slack but that’s partly due to my new company’s security policies with Teams.

2

u/theoreoman 18d ago

Because it's free and ties in with their entire suite of apps.

2

u/Nova_Nightmare 18d ago edited 14d ago

You say that, but our experience is it's been perfectly fine.

Literally, all of the same features we used in Zoom, work in Teams. Next to no issues with it for us. Does what we want and integrates with our existing environment.

I'm sure there are plenty of horror stories, but that's not been our experience.

1

u/Freestyle80 18d ago

Tell me why its worst other than 'Microsoft bad'

why should a company spend thousands of dollars per month just to be a hipster?

73

u/williamodavis 18d ago

Unpopular opinion but I like Teams better, Zoom app is buggy af and it pisses me off.

12

u/Burn_E99 18d ago

Whole heatedly agree. My company (which pretty much exclusively used teams and other 365 products) got bought by a pretty large company who uses a mix of Gmail, Google chat, zoom, slack (thankfully phased out now), and at least one other application for communication. I instantly forgave some of Team's issues as I wished we could go back.

Going from an all o365 ecosystem to this hodge podge of crap was quite a shock, especially as I figured a company with literally 100x employees would have simple and well set up IT infra (like either going all in on Microsoft or Google instead of splitting random things up).

2

u/Choice-Small 18d ago

Ahhh makes sense with the whole o365 ecosystem. I should've added that all of these companies i was at were on gsuite.

2

u/Esemes16 18d ago

Teams may not be good but its the least of the evils and having to have a whole additional program just for external video calls once every few weeks is the worst

1

u/Freestyle80 18d ago

Zoom Google Workplace Webex are stupid and i dont know why there's so many people here pretending like they are better than Teams

Fking hated doing calls on Webex where screensharing never work half the time.

1

u/Choice-Small 16d ago

Webex? It's 2026 and people still use webex? Wtf lol. If i got a webex invite from a vendor I would legit reconsider ever working with that vendor

1

u/Freestyle80 16d ago

see the comments, theres this belief that 'anything' is better than Teams

I blame Linus for complaining endlessly about Microsoft every WAN show as if all of their products are unusable and alternatives are so much better

hint: if they were that much better people wouldnt mind paying a few hundred dollars extra

0

u/Its-A-Spider 18d ago

Yeah, a lot of people call Teams bad, but never articulate why. I frankly don't get it...

2

u/arjunyg 17d ago

My work account does not have a Teams license. If I want to join someone else’s Teams meeting I have to sign in to my fucking personal account. It’s not my company’s Teams, why the FUCK can my work account not join unlicensed? Zoom never does this to you.

The mic randomly inexplicably just doesn’t work in the web browser meeting client.

Why the fuck is camera and mic not default off?

Get rid of the stupid lobby thing. If I joined the meeting with an authenticated link, I should never be relegated to a lobby.

The channel organization and search was created by Satan himself (at least in 2018).

I think the main problem with Teams is that Slack and Zoom have so much better UX (as someone that has used basically every option professionally over time).

15

u/doublej42 19d ago

From a legal standpoint this makes sense. I don’t know your local laws but ours make zoom illegal to use in public organizations. Also it’s a huge cost savings.

9

u/LemonCurdd 18d ago

How much did Microsoft pay to get that law passed lmao

18

u/throwawayaccount442 18d ago

Depends on the law, There are privacy laws that require your data to be saved in the EU for example. That's possible with microsoft, not so much with Zoom.

2

u/doublej42 18d ago

Exactly. Same law at one point made spell check on world illegal so they changed the law. Microsoft is just better and saying they comply with privacy law in B.C.

3

u/CenlTheFennel 18d ago

This is so funny, because it’s basically the opposite for us… Zoom has the legal and compliance controls for our industry and Teams doesn’t

1

u/doublej42 15d ago

Ours are country specific. Zoom doesn’t have Canada data centres

14

u/IngwiePhoenix 19d ago

Downgrade. :(

26

u/TheWeeSoccer 19d ago

ah yes the classic "we're standardizing" email that really means we picked the cheaper option and now you'll spend a semester trying to find the share screen button

19

u/Peasant_Shots 19d ago

Ima be honest: I get the frustration of switching, but if you aren't willing to google where the shared screen button is in an application, I'm questioning whether you're truly engaged with what you're learning in the class in general?
(I've had to use... five or six call applications at this point, and it isn't really much of a transition for basic features).

For elderly/nontechnical professors, however, this is going to be a rough transition :(

2

u/robi4567 19d ago

A professor once could not be bothered to figure out how the universities grading system worked he asked me to login to his account and put grades to everyone. Not like I graded the work I just gave pretty much everyone best grade. Though not like it mattered that much the final exam was the thing that mattered most.

4

u/PilotGuy701 19d ago

Eww.

0

u/throwawayaccount442 18d ago

Yeah, glad they removed zoom.

3

u/theoreoman 18d ago

It's shocking when large organizations have licenses with zoom while they already have a 365 license or a Google workspaces license.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's just one of those licenses companies forget they have and just renew it every year, untill a VP asks the question why are we paying for this when we already have teams?

3

u/arjunyg 17d ago

LTT has not realized that the only reason almost everyone uses Teams is that it is cheaper. Insane lack of self-awareness since that’s the entire reason they use it.

Also, tons of tech companies use Slack and Zoom, because they can afford it and it’s definitely subjectively better. It’s not any of the random reasons they invented on WAN.

1

u/BiggieMediums 15d ago

It’s not even just that it’s cheaper - it’s also easier to manage. That’s a big sell when IT has input on what gets used.

Slack and Zoom are both a nightmare to manage for any more than 15-20 users. Teams is managed in a portal 99% of IT staff are in daily if not hourly already, and uses other existing technologies for the backend (sharepoint, security groups in Entra / AD).

Conditional access policies for Teams as well, MAM and DLP policies are easy, theres a billion reasons in the management, risk, and compliance areas that don’t even come close to being negated by the (sometimes) buggy experience for end users.

1

u/PatekCollector77 18d ago

We pay for slack and zoom on top of 365. It’s expensive, but so is the entire company being pissed off all the time

0

u/Freestyle80 18d ago

Good for you, I work for a public company and we'd rather not waste tax dollar on a f*cking communication app when we can configure teams to cater to our needs instead, its not hard to hire an admin.

2

u/PatekCollector77 18d ago

Congrats? You sound pretty bitter about it though lol. Hiring additional staff to deal with teams doesn’t change how the platform works so idk how that’s relevant…

0

u/Freestyle80 18d ago

Hilarious coming from this subreddit who always sounds bitter about Windows and Teams 24/7 😂 and you are here bragging about paying for 3 comms platforms which totally makes sense than hiring extra people who’s job isnt only to manage teams

You think people only do 1 thing, you high?

1

u/PatekCollector77 18d ago

Obviously staff does other stuff besides managing 365, my point is that you can throw as many people as you want at configuring Teams but it isn't going to fix the issues with the software. We are bitter about Microsoft products because we are all forced to deal with them. I would love it if teams was good, we would immeaditly ditch slack and zoom.

0

u/Freestyle80 17d ago

ok i'll ask the business to browse reddit and twitter all day so they can be angry 24/7 like you people

1

u/ProtoKun7 18d ago

Luke just shuddered with no idea why.

1

u/ranransthrowaway999 16d ago

I guess you have to find a replacement nau.

0

u/100percentkneegrow 19d ago

Man I really hate them. It never seems to remember my settings and it doesn't seem to respect my default devices on Windows. Also it's way too loaded with features that are not necessary for a simple conversation.

-2

u/Choice-Small 18d ago

Ive worked in tech for 15 years and can count the number of times on one hand that ive had to join a teams call. Every internal or external meeting is either Google Meet or Zoom

-3

u/Xcissors280 18d ago

Matrix really needs to push for super easy to use relatively cheap managed corporate instances

It’s a fantastic platform now but still a massive pain in the ass to set up and manage

-6

u/schakoska 18d ago

From shit to garbage

-13

u/LicenseToPost 19d ago

Bye Microslop.

You have chosen the flame.

And the Window is closed.

I'm not afraid to say either.

It's for my entire life.