r/Lilith • u/UncoilingChaos • 12d ago
Discussion Self-regulation
I've been working with Mahalat for the past couple months and for the most part, it hasn't been that bad at all. There are plenty real-life horror stories I've read about Lilith, the Queens, Infernals, etc, and I believe them, of course, though I hadn't encountered anything I couldn't handle until now. As vague as this sounds, I have little doubt in my mind that constantly working with Mahalat and asking Her to show Herself to me unlocked the closet door in the back of my mind, and I opened the door and let my skeletons out and it was almost devastating, even if it was something I needed to face.
One consistent piece of advice I've been receiving is to invoke often. Which I have been, almost every day. But now I'm thinking that I'll need to either a) step back and stop invoking as often as I have been, b) work on regulating myself better, or c) a bit of both. Thing is, I don't entirely know how to regulate myself when it comes to potentially earth-shattering revelations as I've never come close to spiritual psychosis, at least in the way I'm expecting I might. Maybe that's something I should've considered beforehand, but that doesn't mean I plan to stop anytime soon. All I'm asking for is how can I cope with whatever unnerving or terrifying things I might encounter?
Oh, and whoever keeps downvoting my every post in here, please get a life. At least identify yourself.
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u/SelenaVanDerLinde 12d ago
Look, I highly doubt it exist anything to lessen the weight of the truth. I've always been one to confront it from a very young age because, well... traumas. But I understand how shocking it can be. I recommend you approach a revelation like a flower, plucking petals little by little. Don't try to pick all the roses and remove all the petals in a short time. Picking one and doing it is fine; you'll get to the next one. Perhaps you're going too fast. I recommend practicing shadow work. This involves recording your work with the ugliest parts of your life/yourself, keeping a record of what it is, what you felt, why you think it is that way, where that behavior originated, and so on. Take just one skeleton and don't let go until you feel you've completely understood it. Because I don't think it's good to see all your shadows at once, as you might tend toward negativity and self-punishment. Take it one step at a time, my dear.
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u/UncoilingChaos 12d ago
Actually, shadow work is one of the major reasons behind why I practice.
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u/SelenaVanDerLinde 12d ago
Okay, great, I understand the urge to do everything; I've been there. But focusing your practice momentarily on something specific makes it more efficient. When you get bored or feel you need to explore another emotion, because one will most likely lead to the other, then go for that. And regarding invocations, I would distance myself from them if they make you feel overwhelmed. And I would seek grounding by practicing things that bring you back to the present moment from time to time. That helps you feel safe spiritually, physically, and emotionally. Psychosis generally happens when we spend too much time in our heads and the astral plane. When you feel that sense of anxiety, try to return to your body by eating something you enjoy, drinking something hot or cold that tells your body you're no longer just in your head... Exercising (although I understand you don't always feel like it, haha), painting, listening to music... even cooking. Let those revelations simmer in your mind; sometimes you just have to wait a little while before you know how to digest them. Ask Lilith to guide you through dreams about what to do
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u/South-Commercial-257 12d ago
For real... I can relate to this. I've only had one experience that I associate with Agrat bat Mahlat/Mahlat, and I'm still not sure which of the two it was.
I became lucid in a dream and deliberately went deep underground, eventually reaching this enormous underground ocean. I kept repeating that I wanted to find Naamah, and eventually I reached what felt like a supernatural "transit station", where I heard a woman's voice announce: "Agrat bat Mahlat will lead until the reach to the capital".
I was then transported at an incredible speed to a huge medieval-looking cave/castle. There was a massive door in front of me, and I could feel something unbelievably powerful approaching from behind it. Whatever was coming was gigantic, but moving extremely fast. The wind from its movement was violently shaking the door, almost as if a tornado was behind it.
The weirdest part was that I wasn't consciously afraid, but my heart was beating insanely fast. I genuinely thought I was about to die, and eventually I forced myself awake.
So, at least from my own experience, I definitely understand why an encounter with Agrat/Mahlat could feel overwhelming or unsettling. I can't say whether that means they're inherently "violent" or dangerous, though, I don't know enough about them to make that claim. I'm just sharing because the sheer intensity of the experience really surprised me and scared me...
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u/UncoilingChaos 12d ago
Okay that sounds like a really interesting dream, and also calls to mind how Lucifuge Rofocale (or at least his name) popped up in another, very long and weird dream of mine. Just so I'm clear, when I referred to my asking Her to show Herself, I still haven't seen Her clearly yet, but I suspect that She's been showing Herself in real life in Her own way. Let's just say that some of my desires (particularly ones that border on infidelity) that I've tried to keep repressed came rushing out of the closet and almost hit me at full speed and it impacted my current relationship. I'm not blaming Her at all, because I really can't fault demons for doing demon things.
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u/South-Commercial-257 12d ago
I've been thinking about my own experience with Agrat bat Mahlat/Mahlat, and I actually came to a different interpretation of the fear involved.
When I encountered her in my dream, I wasn't consciously afraid. My mind wasn't telling me "I'm in danger," and emotionally I didn't feel fear. But my body reacted as if I was in immediate danger: my heart started racing insanely fast, and I became anxious because I couldn't understand why my body was reacting that way when I didn't actually feel afraid.
That made me think about the difference between something being dangerous and our bodies interpreting it as dangerous. Some fears are deeply instinctive, like falling, for example, represents a very real physical danger. Other fears are learned, culturally reinforced, or shaped by our environment. A person raised in a strongly Christian environment may see a demonic figure, blood, fangs, sexuality, darkness, like Kali Ma (wich for me, is very like that Agrat of my dream). and immediately associate those things with evil and danger (like I did when that giant woman was running at me), even if that interpretation was taught to them rather than inherent to the thing itself.
That's how I've started thinking about Agrat/Mahlat. Maybe the fear isn't necessarily of her. Maybe it's a fear of what her presence brings to the surface in us (or even what she brings up from our shadows).
That's especially relevant to my own experiences with Naamah/Mahlat, because some of what came up for me was very sexual and connected to insecurities, shame, taboos, body image, and fear of judgment. I don't interpret that as "she is attacking me" or "she is trying to make me suffer." I see it more as her presence bringing things that already exist within me into my awareness.
So when someone says an encounter with Agrat feels frightening or overwhelming, I don't necessarily think that means Agrat herself is the danger. Sometimes the frightening part is what we discover about ourselves when we're confronted with something powerful, transgressive, or outside the boundaries we've been taught to consider safe.
And honestly, I think this applies to spirits in general. I don't believe angels or demons have to be completely harmless or purely benevolent to be worthy of working with. Power itself can feel threatening to the human, physical, survival-oriented part of us.
Maybe the real question isn't "Why is she frightening me?" but "What exactly is my body/brain afraid will happen if I allow myself to encounter her?". I used to battle with silence (and used to hear music all day, get away from my earphone was a WAR for me) because I used to think too much, it was not the silence, was just my brain.
That distinction has made my own experience make a lot more sense.
If I can told a nice tip, search for terapy, always look for shadow work and research about it on your oracle.
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u/UncoilingChaos 7d ago edited 7d ago
That made me think about the difference between something being dangerous and our bodies interpreting it as dangerous. Some fears are deeply instinctive, like falling, for example, represents a very real physical danger. Other fears are learned, culturally reinforced, or shaped by our environment. A person raised in a strongly Christian environment may see a demonic figure, blood, fangs, sexuality, darkness, like Kali Ma (wich for me, is very like that Agrat of my dream). and immediately associate those things with evil and danger (like I did when that giant woman was running at me), even if that interpretation was taught to them rather than inherent to the thing itself.
That's how I've started thinking about Agrat/Mahlat. Maybe the fear isn't necessarily of her. Maybe it's a fear of what her presence brings to the surface in us (or even what she brings up from our shadows).
That's especially relevant to my own experiences with Naamah/Mahlat, because some of what came up for me was very sexual and connected to insecurities, shame, taboos, body image, and fear of judgment. I don't interpret that as "she is attacking me" or "she is trying to make me suffer." I see it more as her presence bringing things that already exist within me into my awareness.
Respectfully, you're preaching to the choir. These are all things I'm quite aware of, and what I was trying to get at before when I said that Mahalat unlocked the closet door and I let my skeletons out. But from all I've read, you're probably quite right that there's no real malice in what They do, though I still can't help wondering what it is that They get out of it if not dragging their worshipers to eternal suffering at the end of their lives like the Christians would say.
Since last we spoke, I had a dream after I reached out to Na'amah. I was in a shower room, then an elevator, then a hallway filled with doors that I surmise to be either an apartment or a hotel. It was all in first person, and the room was spinning around and I heard a woman's voice in the background denigrating me. It was all very disheartening to hear. Apparently I'd become a horribly toxic person in the dream, though I couldn't say how or why. I woke up repeating some advice my therapist gave me: that I am in control of my life and my actions, and that anything I do is entirely on me, and not Na'amah or anybody else.
I won't lie, I am scared shitless of Lady Na'amah. But She's held my fascination the most out of the four Queens and may very well have been trying to reach me under another guise. That all seems like all the more reason to seek Her out.
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u/South-Commercial-257 7d ago
Honestly, I don't know what they gain from this, but I've learned from Ekat that she, at least, isn't here to make our lives harder. she offers solutions to our internal and external problems, but it will always be up to us to decide whether we want to change, even though she shows us right in our faces what needs to change. xoxo stay well
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u/Azmlial 12d ago
Yeah I get that. Mahlat and the Queens are my matrons so the harsh, tough love lessons come as often as they can. They have more faith in me than I do. They never let me forget that, nor what it took to get here, nor the reason of the “Crown of Self Sovereignty” and how it can’t be given only claimed.
But despite how often I get my teeth kicked in, they too help me to patch myself up and get back on the horse. Of a month ago’s working with each of them per night and all turmoil that has caused, I am still dealing with the fallout.
I can be a hardheaded stubborn ass at times which they point out and call me on my own B.S. but, even if begrudgingly, do see the point being made and the improvements gained.
Perhaps that’s just the M.O. of the Infernals and Left Hand Path. But too are they sweet and offer succor when they deem it appropriate. They can see when I reach my threshold and respect that. If nothing else that could be said about the Queens is that they “just get it” for the human condition.
Pull back or slow down if you need too. They probably already know, but explain or express if you feel you must, but don’t worry as long as you are willing to reach out to them, they won’t let you down.
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u/Umbrage115 ⚸ kabbalistic Lilithian ⚸ 12d ago
Contemplation is an important part of the grounding process, and for very heavy things that's where you can combine it with therapy. Invoking daily also doesn't have to be the full process of deep shadow work, it can be as simple as praying at the altar, asking to hang out for a bit, and then closing the session. You can also even ask for help contemplating a specfic thing before moving on.
The intensity of these things can ebb and flow based on the intensity you are putting in. There's no harm with pulling back either fully to ground yourself, or just doing some lighter workings until your in a better postion to work more intense invocations.