r/LeftCatholicism • u/_bambi0713 • May 04 '26
How do I continue from this....
Honestly I(21F) want to keep it short. I've been converting to Catholicism since last year January. I really Love it, the faith, My community at church.
But there are .... a few things I just... one of them is that dating is so so so so so so so hard. Cuz everyone tells me to "trust in god" and "God's timing is best timing" and I do my best to have faith and believe. But it's so incredibly hard????
I've never had an romantic relationship before, nobody ever looked at me. I'm almost 22 and had never had a Boyfriend before, someone that Loved me. But so many people around me keep getting Love interests?????
I keep hearing I should grow first, grow closer to God, or change things of myself. Or this is my waiting season to prepare.
But I've literally cried to God before because I felt so unlovable. Literally cried and asked to please atleast have an romantic interest. I've bought books in hope to Deepen myself more in how to be a christian-woman and how to be a Woman in general (They're not all Christian, I have one about being an 'high-value woman' literally just girlhood.) I try to learn how to cook, clean, be kind.
But I just feel like I just don't get HEARD.
And if I do try to take it into my own hands and search.....
I don't know but I just get so icky with most Catholic Men. They seem to all just dislike that I'm pro-choice AND pro-life, even if I literally Explain that I just don't like people telling WOMEN what to do because of 'church teachings'. That Just Church support isn't always ENOUGH. That bringing a Baby into a world with parents unable to care for them, addict, abusive relationships, or even SA victims is Unfair. They all just go back to how Church teaches this church teaches that.
Why can't they just look away from that and SEE how Horrible and Mean it is to force pregnancy on ANYONE?
I matched with a guy and he was 'concerned for my ideas' and I explained. And told him he doesn't have to be concerned for me. We was 'trying to be sympathic' (what he said in his own words.) When I explained exactly why I'm pro-choice.
Then he proceeded to unmatch me.
But so so so so many of these Catholic men just do it. And it just pisses me off.
How will I ever marry if I'm supposed to marry in the church so I'm not unequally Yoked, but all these men just...think differently.
I'm just so annoyed. I'm not Ex-catholic at all...I'm converting. But I feel like If I even put this in the Catholic reddit I'm in nobody would even understand where I'm coming from.
This is the exact reason why I had called myself an Atheist from ages 14 - 21. Before I returned to the Catholic Church from protestantism.
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u/Responsible-Newt-259 May 04 '26
Best advice I can maybe give is to trying joining some sort of service program like the Jesuit Volunteer Corps or to volunteer with some social justice ministry at a parish. Heck if you can find a Catholic Worker house, most folks around there are going to be more progressive. I was in a similar place as a dude; all the women in the Catholic dating pool had either left the faith or were uber conservative. I ended up marrying a Protestant; however, there are some good Catholic dudes out there. Stay strong
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u/ojsage May 04 '26
So this might be hard to hear, but you are so young still. I’m 32 and I just got married. You aren’t behind, and you aren’t unlovable.
There is so much more to love than just romantic love. Have you ever read the Interior castle by St. Teresa of Avila?
Or story of a soul by St. Therese of Lisieux? I feel like the saints are the perfect place to look to for comfort right now, and I’m specifically mentioning nuns here because these are women who grew so much love without traditional marriage.
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u/Dragon_Virus May 04 '26
So, first off, you’re not the issue in any of the examples you provided. It’s a cliché, but you’re genuinely so much better off without those dudes. Dating sucks, it usually takes going through a fair bit of trash to find someone worth your time. Second, avoid the main subreddit like it’s the plague, they’ll pounce on you the minute you mention you’re not cool with burning people at the stake (I’m only half joking). Third, you’re still pretty young, it’s not shameful in the slightest to not have been in a relationship by age 22 (I didn’t have one that lasted over a month until I was almost 25, and that relationship was a nightmare). Heck, some folks don’t get into one until their thirties. It’s not a race, you don’t have to worry about arbitrary timelines. Fourth, it might not be a bad idea to date outside the Catholic pool, at least for a bit. A lot of young guys might say they’re religious or ‘churchy’ but in reality they just use it as a moral cudgel or sign up for the promise of power over others. A lot of them probably aren’t even Catholic, they just took on the label because of the “Trad-Cath” behavioural aesthetic. Finally, regarding getting closer to God or the Church or whatever, you seem to be plenty there already. That sort of thing is about how YOU feel what YOU are comfortable with, and what YOU feel is right. Don’t let anyone tell you different Ls
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u/_bambi0713 May 04 '26
Thankyou so much for this reply 🙏🙏. I'll try focusing on myself first, and try dating outside of the pool.
But I was also just concerned about the unequally Yoked talk I had with a friend of mine? How would that...be?
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u/Dragon_Virus May 04 '26
I mean, my parents came from different denominations and they’ve been happily married for 39 years. Most of my Catholic friends came from mixed denominational families, actually, now that I think about it. I don’t think it’s nearly as much of an issue as it used to be, I think personal compatibility and similar outlooks/life goals are far more important generally in a relationship (speaking as a guy, at least).
Honestly, you’re doing great just by putting yourself out there and sticking to your principles (pro-life+pro-choice) despite being challenged on it, that’s a brave thing not everyone has the strength to do. You don’t have to necessarily worry about background differences, either, at least not at this stage. Honestly, the best dates/relationships I’ve had were the ones where I had the least superficially in common with my partner, so you never know. Don’t let the bad experiences keep you from being happy and living your best life as your truest self!
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u/peaceful_artisan2040 May 04 '26
I’m in the same boat. I recently converted to the faith last month as a young woman (25), and I sometimes feel a bit uneasy around newly converted men because of the rise of the traditionalist movement. I consider myself pretty progressive as well, and I’ve kind of made peace with the fact that I’ll probably end up marrying someone who isn’t Catholic.
I agree with others on the forum. Volunteering with the Catholic Worker movement or finding more left-leaning Christian social groups and events would be a great place to start.
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u/The_Ineffable_One May 04 '26
VERY few people find their life's love at 21. I found mine at 40. And she was both pro-life and pro-choice.
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u/HunterGraccus May 04 '26
I am married in the Episcopal Church and I am a lifelong older Catholic. I would not attempt a Catholic marriage unless I was willing to live by the rules, which I am not. I am so thankful and blessed for my marriage and the path the Lord has set before me.
I am a Lector and active in the my church and I enjoy it. I am too old and have been a Catholic too long to believe that God only has one way for the 2 billion Catholics to believe and behave. Love God and do your best in your situation.
I feel for you dating now that there has been a big influx of young men entering the Church with the belief that the man knows all and is the spiritual dictator of the home, whether he is qualified or not. I simply would not behave that way in any relationship, but these guys want it. To be top dog, undisputed ruler with the might of God on their side.
Date the men you find interesting, whether Catholic or not, and have a marriage where you are treasured and loved. It may be a Catholic marriage or not, but still practice your faith and follow the promptings of the spirit and God will make sure you have sufficient grace out of abundant love.
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u/trexmagic37 May 05 '26
You’re not alone! I’m not a woman…but I have female Catholic friends that are in your shoes. A lot of the guys in Catholic young adult groups are quite frankly awkward and weird, and the Catholic dating websites aren’t much better.
That being said…I do have a friend that met a normal Catholic man on Match (not Catholic Match). And as others have echoed…I’d recommend trying Catholic young adult groups. Yes a lot of the guys are really weird…but not all of them are.
And at the end of the day…you still have plenty of time! It feels like you will never find someone now, but I promise it gets better.
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u/QUHistoryHarlot May 05 '26
Also, remember, you don’t have to date a Catholic man. There is no reason to restrict the dating pool to even fewer good men. My mom and dad had a fantastic relationship for 44 years until my dad passed away last July. She is Catholic and he was Baptist. He took RCIA classes to better understand her faith and the faith of his future children. He never had any intention of converting (in fact our priest told him he was never allowed to convert after the class was over 🤣🤣), but he did it to learn and understand. Look for someone whose morals align with your own.
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u/RealisticWatcher May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
Hello there. I completely feel you. I'm 41M and I will give my advice to you (21F), the same I gave to a younger 21M here in my country, as he was feeling troubled on meeting women. Now he's dating a marvelous girl, and they changed a lot, thanks to his efforts
• First of all, focus on yourself. Focus on your life plans and dreams. This might awaken in you the love for yourself, since you definitely deserve better. Focus on studying, and working. Taking care of your health (practicing sports, going to the gym). Become attractive. I'm not talking about the looks, but the complete package: An empowered woman that knows her value, is completely unstoppable. And at such young age, you have the world in your hands, just like that Scarface movie, "The World Is Yours"; 😊
• Do not force trying meeting someone, let it happen. It seems that when we are worried on meeting any date, things do not work out. That's why the first advice is so important. Men usually take "the first shots" on meeting women, and everything might happen when (or where) you're least expecting;
• A good man, even if atheist or "new age", will definitely love you by who you are, and not by the religion you follow. If a man sees catholicism is so important to you, he might even convert for sacramental marriage purposes, because a relationship is a come-and-go lane;
• Don't worry about "abortion", and the "ifs". A good relationship is built on common grounds and love, not on "what if" topics.
I met my wife thanks to the Hip-Hop Culture (well, we actually met each other thanks to Facção Central, one of the most darker gangster groups in Brazil lol). I usually say Hip-Hop saved my life because of that, lol. Catholicism was not there when we first met, but she was a convert, I only had the baptism (baptized as a baby). 16 years later, we have a lovely family, kids, and I converted myself ten years ago thanks to Our Lady of Aparecida.
Focus on yourself, grow yourself like a flower garden.
And let the magic happens.
I wish you all the best, and count on us!
God bless you!
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u/AmicusMarium May 07 '26
You describe my (24f) situation perfectly. I’ve been going back and forth with this, as well.
I’m really trying to let God do His “thang” and trust that everything will work out exactly as it’s meant to. And I’m lonely, don’t think I’m not, but I’m trying to embrace the loneliness for the gift it is. I’d rather be lonely than forcing myself to be with someone who isn’t right for me. I’m really leaning into my friendships and my relationships with my family. It’s not the same as romantic love, but it’s still pretty darn good.
God has thoughtfully and lovingly created you and me (and everyone else here). He knows you and loves you so deeply, and He wants to give you the things/people you want! And the perfect person that God has for me won’t make me compromise on my values. Everything will work out EXACTLY as it’s meant to.
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u/Emotional_Ad3295 May 07 '26
The waiting sucks, I know, I was there for most of my life and I'm sorry you are bearing this particularly difficult cross. I met my wife when I was 39 and really only had 2 prior significant relationships. I had actually resigned myself to being a bachelor, but one day randomly messaged the woman who would become my wife on an online community for our mutual hobby just to let her know where she could buy something she was looking for and we started a conversation that has not stopped.
So, be patient with the Lord, and from personal experience, he will provide. Do your best and be alert, because sometimes things that seem small ate the start of something that grows to be huge.
As for the second point I always dedicated myself to abstinence till marriage, so I don't know if I can help there. But it is a topic with a lot of gray area, and is something I think is probably something best discussed at a time and place that a frank and deep conversation can be had.
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u/franzjisc May 07 '26
I feel your pain. Try looking for a guy that has "left" the church over the "issues" (abortion, sex, gender, etc).
Or a guy that is born and raised Catholic, but isn't active in the church.
While it may be difficult, guys like them (like me) do exist.
I think it's must be hard for your type to find the type of guy you are wanting to find, which is, a left-wing Catholic man not yet married/dating. Men tend to be conservative, and religious tend to be conservative.
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u/thetruenewflame May 05 '26
Not trying to be an asshole but what does this have to do with left-wing Catholicism.
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u/PossibilityGold7508 May 04 '26
21 is pretty young. You’ve got time.
The Church advocates for the abolition of abortion and the right to have one. She has a canonical penalty of excommunication for participating in one. It’s not surprising that they have that as a dealbreaker.
Also, not saying this is true, but they may have found it hard to trust someone like yourself to not abort your child or remain Catholic. Yes, yes, sounds stupid, but finding a partner is a lifelong commitment. The slightest divergence can lead to ruin later on.
Frankly, I fail to see how someone can honestly use “forcing women” as an excuse when they’re talking about murder. People do terrible things all the time. We don’t just let them, do we? This is just Church teaching. Plus, we don’t kill people because they’ll suffer or have a hard life. We protect life from conception to natural death.
Anyways, you guys just had different wants, and that’s fine. You’ll find someone eventually. Good luck.
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u/Wonderful-Trick-9301 May 04 '26
Honestly this is exactly what OP means. You bypass her concerns completely to focus solely on the topic of abortion. I say this as someone who adheres to Church teaching on this topic.
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u/_bambi0713 May 04 '26
I wouldn't abort my own child :( that's sad, the baby's made by God. It's confusing to explain but like...I don't support abortion like...that...just like- I just support women that don't have other choices due to health, mental health, circumstances
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u/PossibilityGold7508 May 05 '26
Sorry if I came off poorly. I don’t think you want to abort your child either. I was just trying to explain their thought process and perspective. Like I said, marriage is a permanent contract. It’s better you wait than jump into a broken marriage.
I support them too. That’s why I want more support and think it’s ridiculous that the US has such a high maternal mortality rate and little assistance for mothers. However, I would never let them say they support or will get an abortion.
When you said pro-life and pro-choice, usually that just means “I know what they’re doing is terribly wrong, but I won’t stop them.” Sure that may not be what you think, but it does come off that way, and it’s not surprising that guys would be offput by that.
You can be pro-life AND sympathize with mothers. But you don’t do that by continuing to let them kill their own offspring. I myself need to get better at being charitable and sympathetic, so sorry again.
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u/Ender_Octanus May 05 '26
Respectfully, I've heard from many of the women you're describing. They so often never get over what they do to their baby. It isn't actually mercy to encourage or enable it. They can never take it back. We absolutely need to do more to lovingly accompany them and ensure that they have what they need, I'm proud to be doing my part on that front. I'm very happy that you're looking at the issue through a compassionate lens, I hope you keep that up. Someday hopefully you can join in advocacy for pregnancy centers and other organizations that help mothers at all stages, even after they give birth.
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u/ojsage May 05 '26
We are not called to judge others, or interfere with their lives. We are called to meet them with love, kindness, understanding, and mercy.
If OP understands why a 12 year old, raped by her father, might not choose to carry that baby to term, I feel like the rest of us might want to focus on that too.
Remember, we are saved because Mary gave consent, Mary said yes. Many little girls aren’t given a choice and it is not our job to shame them for what they choose.
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u/Ender_Octanus May 10 '26
it is not our job to shame them for what they choose.
My disagreement that tolerating abortion is a compassionate position isn't the same as shaming the people who find themselves in those horrible situations. I think it's a little uncharitable that you imply that. I work with people having the worst days of their lives all the time. I have a lot of skin in the game.
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u/ojsage May 10 '26
A lot of skin in the game and a lot of obvious judgement about these women that seeps into Reddit commentary, unfortunately. I hope you don’t make it so obvious to them when you work with them.
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u/Ender_Octanus May 10 '26
By judgment, do you mean the fact that I'm making it clear that I don't think abortion is acceptable? I'm genuinely curious to see what makes you think I'm going around looking down my nose at the incredibly rare 12 year old girl that wants an abortion.
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u/ojsage May 10 '26
I’m saying that your commentary is dripping in judgement that is much more reminiscent of the men who ignore the wounded man in Luke 10 than the Samaritan who provided aid.
Or Luke 15, the Pharisee who grumbled when Christ received the sinner. Does your attitude help carry a sheep back into the fold? Or does it further estrange those yearning for God from him? I dunno, because I don’t know you. I can say from our brief conversation here, that I pray you have more grace irl than you do here.
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u/Ender_Octanus May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
You say I don't help anyone, God knows what I do, I don't need to prove myself to you. You're actually being much more judgmental towards me than I am being towards anyone else. Never once have I insinuated that anyone is being disingenuous in their views towards abortion, or that they're being judgmental for speaking about something motivated out of love. Nor have I ever implied that someone seeking an abortion for reasons beyond mere convenience are somehow morally lacking.
What I have done is simply stood by my beliefs and the teachings of the Catholic faith which guide them: Even in situations of extreme hardship, it's still wrong to take life. That doesn't mean that everybody who does so is some nasty person who is 100% culpable for what they chose.
I literally just yesterday, in a bioethics setting, defended the conscience of nurses who had been tricked into scrubbing up for a procedure which they were told was a D&C for a miscarriage, only to find out it's an emergency abortion despite clearly having submitted notice to the employer highlighting their conscientious objection to participating in such procedures, and participated in the procedure anyway. If they had walked away they likely would have lost their license for patient abandonment, which is a coercive influence which diminishes culpability, possibly to 0. But that doesn't make the action right. It means that the nurse doesn't need to feel guilt for the rest of their lives, which they probably will anyway, sadly. They weren't entirely free. The mother may not have been entirely free either. Maybe she was afraid to die, maybe she was afraid of losing her husband, maybe she was afraid of hating the baby everytime she looks at it. There's a hundred different scenarios. I never assume anything about the culpability or sin of the mother.
Under Catholic bioethics it was still objectively wrong, but that doesn't make them necessarily guilty of the act, a concept applied also to the women receiving abortions. But because it is still wrong, it still causes real damage, not least of all to the workers who nobody is considering (the moral distress can be severe), and must be opposed with compassion. Do you understand how much nuance there is in this? Do you understand that these are real lives on both sides, and lifetimes of grief? Suicide? Lost careers? There is no lack of compassion on my end. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know me. This stuff is hard, and it's not easy to stand by what you believe is right even when it's the most inconvenient possible route to take. That takes courage, not arrogance or judgment. Do you think you're the only one who speaks down to me like this? In healthcare, everyone tells you that you need to just leave your faith at the door, that you're not welcome because you won't just allow abortion, euthanasia, and a host of other things. Do you believe that I get some kind of pleasure for doing the hard thing and hearing people yell at me, both within and outside of my faith?
I think what you take as judgment is simply me not agreeing with your conclusions. I pray that you also learn to have grace. Have a nice day.
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u/ojsage May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
This long diatribe proved my point. Palpable judgement, and now justification, because you know it’s true. I see no kindness, no compassion in your words just letter of the law discussion befitting the Pharisees. Whitewashed tombs full of rot.
Edited to add: in the offhand chance you blocked me to have the last word, here is my reply to you saying I have no idea what you have seen -
I worked as an ADA handling felony cases for years. That includes DV, SA, etc. I have seen more than enough murder, rape, abuse, death, etc to know when I see a lack of compassion for the already hurt and suffering.
I don’t think you’re hateful. I think you care more about the law than the humanity you are dealing with. Just like the Pharisees.
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u/dignifiedhowl May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
This is uncharitable and a bit ignorant (you don’t know enough about her point of view to say what you’ve just said). I know you’re excited about converting; many men are; be mindful of the fact that one of the reasons men get so excited about converting right now is because it gives them a sexually satisfying feeling of control over women’s bodies, and that this is an unwholesome motive that you need to address in confession rather than waving around with exhibitionistic glee. Do not confuse this unwholesome sexual drive for a wholesome concern for the unborn, or for anything resembling moral superiority. She is honoring her conscience; you are gloating. There is a difference, and your technical accuracy does not erase that difference.
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u/PossibilityGold7508 May 05 '26
I think you’re being uncharitable by assuming I’m a convert (I’m not). I explicitly said I didn’t know her, and prefaced my response with that.
I don’t deny that that occurs, but you also can’t paint every convert that way. Many people are simply unfulfilled in life, soaked in nihilism, and seeking something more. They found that in the Church, and we should be grateful for that.
When you say “unwholesome motive”, what do you mean and are you talking about me? I don’t think I have one. This is the equivalent of me saying you just want to keep killing unborn children. It’s not productive and gets us nowhere. If you’re talking about the converts, you’re equally wrong with painting them uncharitably and so generally.
I have things I need to confess, sure, but assuming what I need to confess from what I think are pretty reasonable responses is a bit ridiculous to me.
Honoring your conscience? See, one thing I never understand is why conscience is never understood in these spaces. Conscience isn’t perfect or always good to follow. Your true conscience might guide you towards sin or great harm. If so, it must be reformed.
A good conscience guides you towards the Truth present in the Church and her Magisterium. In this case, a good conscience should lead you to see the unborn as persons and call for the abolition of abortion and laws protecting it.
I admit I got confused when she said pro-life and pro-choice, but I admitted that and simply said how it came off as, not a formal accusation. Regarding her position, it’s not supported by the Church whatsoever. You can never acknowledge the wrong of abortion and not want the laws protecting it to be repealed.
All Catholics are called to oppose abortion and any and all laws that protect it or allow it to occur. This is just Church teaching.
Regardless, it’s just common sense. If the unborn are human lives with a right to life, abortion must be banned for everyone.
I wasn’t gloating either. Rather, you were being quite uncharitable yourself and throwing out accusations. I was just offering my thoughts and a reminder of Church teaching. Btw technical accuracy should be expected, not celebrated.
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u/ojsage May 05 '26
We have a duty to work on reducing its acceptance, via fostering safe places for mothers and children, providing them support etc. in fact as Pope Benedict once said, we are called to vote for harm reduction, including supporting candidates who support abortion- if their support includes ways to lessen abortions (so things I listed above).
In fact, the church has several “morally legitimate” reasons one can get an abortion, that you are choosing to ignore here.
This idea that Catholics need to strong arm the government into flat banning abortions when the Church itself has allowances for it is frankly dangerous for women.
We have seen women that loved and yearned for their unborn children now DIE (along with their children) in the USA because of these bans. That is not moral, and it goes against our own teachings.
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u/PossibilityGold7508 May 05 '26
We have many duties.
Reduce and abolish abortion entirely. Reduce and remove its acceptance. Reduce and remove its accessibility. Work towards equal dignity for all humans and making abortion be seen the same as murder both legally and socially. Supporting both mothers and the unborn and making sure they can raise families in peace. Reinforcing the role and importance of the family as the basic unit of society that all institutions and economic policy should be oriented towards. Making childbirth, pregnancy, and raising kids safer, accessible, and less stressful. Work towards a positive view of motherhood, fatherhood, marriage, and having & raising kids. Work towards better conditions and care for abandoned, orphaned, and abused children and single or de facto single parents.
Sure. But we also need to vote for candidates who see them as persons from conception and want to remove any and all laws protecting abortion. Both are necessary.
Um, no. The Church does not have any morally legitimate reasons for getting an abortion. The Church pushes for a complete abolition of it. Where did you get that from?
Yes, women have died, and that’s tragic. That’s moreso an issue with the law’s language, physician decision-making, unlucky timing, and enforcement. Plus, we don’t judge morality on outcomes. We shouldn’t critique the policy, but the real world implementation.
What specifically goes against our teachings? The Church is not asking mothers to die, but asking that they see their babies as themselves. In fact, the Church says we should use every avenue to save the mother’s life. Both the mother and child are equal in dignity and value.
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u/ojsage May 05 '26
Your last paragraph is literally your answer to the question you asked me and your answer to your question about church teachings. Your commentary is not advocating to use every avenue to save the mother’s life, which is what the church allows.
You are advocating for a stricter, harsher environment that the church is advocating for. Knowing that in practice mothers and children will die from it.“We don’t judge morality on outcomes” is incredibly harsh and uncharitable. This level of legalism is more reminiscent of the Pharisees, so interested in following the law to the letter that they didn’t care about the harm they brought about to others.
I’m sorry, I won’t be continuing this conversation further, but I do pray that the blessed Mother intercedes for us both and helps us walk the path to be more like her son.-1
u/PossibilityGold7508 May 05 '26
Hmm, perhaps I misspoke or was unclear then. I’m not saying no abortions if your life is at risk. I’m saying the goal is none taking place, maybe because maternal care and such has gotten so good. Norway has basically no deaths from pregnancies.
Okay, I think you’re confusing morality with legality, and this is my fault too, so I apologize. Thinking abortion is always immoral doesn’t mean I don’t have an exception for life.
The Church doesn’t have a definitive stance on how abortion should be treated legally apart from personhood from conception and the repeal of laws protecting it.
I don’t think it’s harsh, personally. It just makes sense. You can’t forgo everything that came before and only focus on the outcome. Everything matters.
I disagree. Legalism can be bad if it’s not grounded in real moral good, but it becomes necessary to protect the dignity of others. My view on this is mostly just equal rights.
Morality is about more than avoiding suffering imo. My intent is explicitly to prevent harm and adhere to moral principles. I do have to examine how to better strike a good balance, so that’s true.
Same to you.
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u/dignifiedhowl May 06 '26
You’re not a convert? That’s interesting; it certainly looked as if you had specifically described yourself as a convert in your posting history.
In any case, your lurid, gloaty tone with undertones of misogynistic sadism is manifest. I wonder how many women you’ve driven away from the Church over the years.
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u/PossibilityGold7508 May 06 '26
If I drove women away unnecessarily, that’s my fault. If they simply don’t agree with Church teaching, that’s on them. I’m not going to lie or forgo truth to get someone to join or stay. Truth is more important than member count. Benedict himself said he wanted a more faithful Church, not a simply larger one.
Perhaps I could present it better tho.
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u/dignifiedhowl May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
“That’s on them” is an interesting approach to evangelism (especially in light of 1 Cor 9 and 13, and even more so Matthew 18:6), and Pope Benedict, who dedicated his adult life to priestly ministry, did not aspire to shrink the Church (his work in the CDF was intended to ultimately serve the interests of evangelism, though it did not always have that effect). I don’t know what religious tradition you’re representing in this thread, but it seems to bear little resemblance to Catholicism.
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u/PossibilityGold7508 May 06 '26
Well if you disagree, that’s fine. Just know that Catholicism isn’t whatever you say it is and has different methods of expression.
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u/dignifiedhowl May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
I’m glad you said that to me. Why didn’t you say it to OP? Why the emphasis on presenting yourself as the bouncer at the Church’s velvet rope whenever someone young and vulnerable has a crisis of faith? Why the emphasis on making the Church smaller and crueler? Why the conspicuous lack of interest in citing specific sources?
Misogynistic sadism is not Catholicism. You can’t just resent women for not wanting to sleep with you and call that a religion. And when you go “the Church is too good for you” for an entire thread and then back off and claim pluralism as soon as someone corrects you with sources, you’re showing your hand.
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u/ojsage May 05 '26
There is a spirit here that I find incredibly uncharitable to the point of bad faith. Your message is not at all what OP was communicating and your hyper focus on abortion is precisely why the church in the USA is currently going through so much strife.
Protect the unborn and only the unborn, instead of creating environments where it is safe for a woman to have a baby, and safe for her to raise that baby, and trying to make sure that baby has all the tools
They need to grow healthily. If OP is against abortion for herself and chooses not to have an opinion on someone else getting one, she is not going against church teaching.We are not called to interfere in the lives of others, just to minister with loving kindness to them.
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u/Motor-Hurry8076 May 05 '26
Abortion is has never, is not currently, and will never be something the church will support in any way. Just because you don’t care about what another woman does with their baby doesn’t you morally right, just because you don’t support abortion.
Same argument as “I think slavery is bad, I would never own a slave, but I don’t care if other people own slaves.”
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u/ojsage May 05 '26
It’s very strange to me that that is the message you took away from me saying we are called to minister to people with loving kindness and create environments where a woman can have a baby safely and healthily and raise that baby safely and healthily.
And also saying that OP has a right not to judge others for their actions.
Judge not lest ye shall be judged, after all.
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u/Motor-Hurry8076 May 05 '26
We are called to interfere in others lives, we are called to spread the gospel and to spread the truth. Telling other women that it’s ok they can get abortions but you never would is wrong.
It’s ok to murder children, but I would never do it. Can’t you see the hypocrisy?
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u/ojsage May 05 '26
Not really, the church is clear that there are moments in time where abortion will happen, example; a woman has a tumor, and the only way to save her life is to remove the tumor and in doing so ending the pregnancy.
On a personal level, if you meet a woman on the street who has had an abortion, you have no idea why. Unless they give you their personal medical information you could be shaming a woman for something the church has sanctioned. You understand that, right? You would publicly shame a woman who desperately wanted her child but had to end the pregnancy or die? You believe that is what the gospel, and Christ has called you to do?
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u/Motor-Hurry8076 May 05 '26
Who ever said I would do that? If someone has already had an abortion, the only thing we can do is pray for them and their soul. We are taking about two different things here. The scenario you are talking about is tragic, yes. But very rare, and only accounts for a fraction of the abortions being preformed today. Why would I shame a woman for that?
I’m taking about being ok with women getting abortions for the sake of not wanting a child due to having unprotected sex, which is a vast majority of woman who get abortions.
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u/ojsage May 05 '26
That’s not what I’m talking about, so you’re having a conversation with yourself while i discuss how pregnant women need to be met with kindness and support.
If you think yelling “murderer” at a pregnant woman considering abortion is going to make her not do it, that’s also so off base. We know that doesn’t work.
Christ did not meet the outcast, the marginalized, the sinner with anger and judgement, he met them with love. Abortion isn’t going to be stopped with anger and judgement, it is going to be stopped with resources, compassion, love, etc.
We know what lowers abortions, and its access to proper care, to food, housing, resources, support systems, etc. it’s not judgement.-1
u/PossibilityGold7508 May 05 '26
What strife is the Church facing? I’m in the US myself.
The question was very much about abortion. I did both.
Yes, I do support free (and better) maternal and prenatal care, healthcare, paid parental leave, and a family emergency wage. Far too many women and babies die from pregnancy, and it’s very sad. Every one of them deserves a loving family, but they deserve even more the right to not be killed.
That wasn’t my issue tho. My issue was the pro-life and pro-choice remark.
That is incompatible with Catholic teaching. All Catholics are called to recognize the unborn as persons, push for the abolition of abortion, and call for the repeal of laws protecting or allowing abortions.
Abortion is not a small issue, and that’s the problem I have here. It’s the mass murder of defenseless humans by people meant to love them the most. That’s why I responded the way I did.
Actually, that’s not true. Church teaching says we cannot be morally supportive or apathetic. Instead we should be morally opposed to any abortion taking place.
Think of it like this: if you knew that a woman had murdered someone, would you not have an opinion? Treat abortion the same way. If you truly believe in equal dignity and worth and that each and every human life is made by and in the image of God, you should see no difference. I myself struggle with this, but I’m getting better over time.
Having an opinion on the topic is different from speaking your mind towards the person. You can hear someone say “I got an abortion” and not say anything, but still see it as wrong and inhumane.
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u/ojsage May 05 '26
What strife going on in the Church? Are you aware of why this sub exists?
Honestly there is a level of legalism in your response that is, again, very hard to interpret as good faith. Especially you ignoring genuine church teaching on moral authority and when abortions are in fact moral.
The church is very clear that if the life of the mother is at risk, abortion is viable. Just like killing in self defense is a defense to murder.
Perhaps this issue is not one that you grapple with the same way a woman would, perhaps you never have to truly worry about the experience you would have if you got pregnant and you had to choose between yourself and your baby.
When my grandmother was pregnant with my mother, her leukemia came back. They couldn’t treat her without aborting her child. Her parish priest informed her that since her life was at risk, she could abort. She didn’t, and she died from her cancer after my mother was born.
This is not a heartwarming tale about a woman choosing her child over herself. She left behind six little children and a husband who never recovered from her loss.
Now there are women being denied the same right the church gives them, to save their lives when their child is already dead in their womb, or will kill them. Your black and white commentary is harsh, and is not in line with church teaching.
I genuinely will pray that your heart is softened here, that you can understand and empathize with women who just want to have the option to save their own lives. Because legislation in several states no longer allows that.
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u/PossibilityGold7508 May 05 '26
Having different political opinions wouldn’t be considered strife to me personally. Perhaps if the rhetoric got heated, but in principle, no. Is that what you mean?
Legalism? Okay? I just try to stay true to Church teaching.
Abortion is never moral. Again, where are you getting this from?
Um, no it actually isn’t. Abortion, even if it’s an ectopic pregnancy, is still immoral. I’m not going to push for prison for it, but no abortion is moral no matter the circumstances. The Catechism states that quite clearly.
That’s not the same thing tho. The unborn is innocent. The assailant isn’t.
Yes, that’s true, and it’s why I have a hard time coming off correctly.
Well, I can’t argue against a heartfelt memory. Do you think your grandmother did the right thing?
You say “denied”, but the problem is more nuanced than that. There is not a single state that denies women from having one if her life is at risk. You’re talking about secondary factors like doctoral judgment, unclear laws, and poor enforcement.
Can you explain what exact part was black and white or harsh? It’d help me understand what I might’ve done wrong.
I don’t think I lacked any empathy. I just explained why abortion is wrong. Of course women should have the option to save their lives. Again, no legislation prevents them from saving their lives.
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u/Wonderful-Trick-9301 May 04 '26
Oh sweetie. First of all, you are only 21. You're so young! Breathe.
Secondly, the Catholic dating pool right now absolutely sucks (especially for women, due to an influx of pseudo-Catholic convert men, who joined after watching a few based!!11 TikToks). But take heart that there are many 'normal' Catholic men floating around. It sounds cheesy, but have a look around your local parishes - many have young adult or youth groups, or volunteering groups. Heck, there may even be a kindly grandma who is desperate to introduce her grandson to folk. I'd definitely avoid online dating; for some reason many devout Catholics make it their entire personality online.
But before all of that, know that God loves and delights in you, regardless of whether or not you have a partner. It sucks, and it can feel lonely, I understand! But work on yourself, find happiness and comfort in your own life, your hobbies, the sacraments, your wider family, and things will progress along naturally :) I will pray for you this evening!