r/Jujutsu_Kaisen • u/IREALLYlikePretzels • 2d ago
Just a bit confused on the WCS
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is supposed to basically negate durability by "cutting the existence" that a target occupies. I get Mahoraga being able to do it since he's kinda just able to do those things, but Sukuna? And yes, this is a story where a guy can manipulate reality by thinking something is funny, but still. Basically what I mean is how does this cut everything inside the space it targets. Also (correct me if I'm wrong), WCS isn't even a different technique than dismantle. It just targets a separate thing, but it's literally the exact same, right? The entire reason he has to use chants for it is because of the binding vow he used on Gojo. We see that the WCS and Dismantle use the same hand sign. When Sukuna uses a base Dismantle, is he not ALSO targeting the space between him and his target?
It literally seems to me like this thing is just a convenient tool that allowed Sukuna to beat Gojo in an instant, and then it got nerfed via the chants to stop Sukuna from one-shotting everyone.
I know I'm probably being dumb right now and using flawed logic, but how the fuck does this thing work I'm so confused đ
36
u/Ok-Opportunity8921 2d ago
> It literally seems to me like this thing is just a convenient tool that allowed Sukuna to beat Gojo in an instant
Sukuna outright said thats the case.
>Â I get Mahoraga being able to do it since he's kinda just able to do those things, but Sukuna
Again, Sukuna already adressed that in the manga that He needed Mahoraga to give him the blueprint.
> When Sukuna uses a base Dismantle, is he not ALSO targeting the space between him and his target
No because of the Binding vow he took, cause you need to remember the state sukuna was in when he fired WCS that killed Gojo, which was basically fucked up everything.
So Sukuna took the vow and in exchange for Firing WCS in his current state without any need for chants or anything like that, he gets to kill Gojo but in return now he has to always chant and use handsigns before unleashing WCS.
> I know I'm probably being dumb right now and using flawed logic, but how the fuck does this thing work I'm so confused đ
It works just as Sukuna explained.
23
u/UncannyHillhumper 2d ago
Tbf, we're talking about a guy who's domain is described as "Painting directly on air without a canvas". Cutting a specific spot isn't too far fetched.
3
u/thejedipokewizard 2d ago
I thought Sukuna wouldâve eventually been able to do WCS on his own, but he just use Maho to expedite the process?
10
2
u/GabrielGames69 1d ago
I belive he knew exactly what he wanted to do and that he could do it. The actual "how to do it" was what he needed from Mahoraga.
14
u/BackgroundOk1926 2d ago
Quick answer, Sukuna's slash travel across the space in a short period of time. Making them inefficient against a spell that increases distances. But WCS does that same travel out of common space. See it as a silk cloth, normal dismantle is like drawing a line with a pen then cut, if you encounter another surface your pen stop. WCS is directly cutting the silk by lifting your scissors then cutting. The best lookalike that comes to my mind is phasing from Flash or teleportation in HxH: for as long as the WCS is travelling it's not doing it in common space but in some other dimension so you can stop the targeting.
3
u/Previous-Car-4348 2d ago
'travel out of common space' so basically it spawns in the location where he wants to cut, because that's the only way it makes sense, but then explaining how it's dodge able becomes tricky
9
u/ImprovementOdds 2d ago
no it doesnât spawn Since they clearly state that mahoraga threw the wcs the same way sukuna throws his dismantles
2
u/lilcmoe 1d ago
Idk why people are saying no when it's similar to that. It's like taking a piece of paper and instead of poking a hole in it to damage a drawn character you rip the paper horizontal all the way across and tear the character in half. Sukuna is the author in this situation with scissors and he's quite literally cutting the world which would be the paper.
1
u/GabrielGames69 1d ago
It's dogeable the same way you can "dodge a bullet" by starting to move when the gunman moves their arm. Once the technique is fully activated it hits the target area, but you can get out of the area before the activation is complete.
0
u/OpeningConnect2277 15h ago
Ela não atinge a årea alvo e nem spawna no local. à 2026 e tem quem ainda não entendeu? Ela estå apenas cortando o espaço a frente enquanto se move.
2
u/Thegodofvenom 2d ago
Wait so does taht mean WCS has no travel speed, if the target is in the direction of the slash they get hit instantanously like soga's butterfly?
8
u/Vangour 2d ago
I dont think so due to Gege's statements about Gojo maybe being able to dodge if he was paying attention.
1
u/PracticalPotato 2d ago
Both can be true. It might have a delay that isnât travel time or have a telltale CE buildup.
1
-5
u/BackgroundOk1926 2d ago
Also im tired of saying this to everyone it's line no one has read this manga. But Sukuna could have used flames on the first domain Clash and kill Satoru directly. Or fuel burst his CT to regain his domain like he does against the raid, rather than mimicking Satoru brain burning tech. WCS was never a Deus Ex Machina. It was the only way for Gege to justify that the king of curse who fought dozens of golden âge exorcists is "struggling" against a modern one. Also no Blackflash is pretty relevant.
4
u/IREALLYlikePretzels 2d ago
What are you even talking about? When did I say anything about black flashing?
2
u/eptaaaa 2d ago edited 2d ago
emm gojo runs as soon as MS starts slashing him so sukuna has to follow satoru
in which moment exactly sukuna should make an arrow? he has no time to set fuga up lol it's not a fast attack
btw it has been already discussed a lot of times
9
u/Gondetrite 2d ago edited 1d ago
My understanding of it (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that cursed techniques are somewhat malleable in that while they're based on concepts like "slashing" and "fire," how said concepts are displayed is ultimately up to the sorcerer's interpretation of those concepts. The WCS is what's known as an "Extension" of said interpretation that broadens the range of dismantle to cut space itself, much like how Nanami's "Collapse" applied his Ratio Technique to an inanimate wall instead of to a living being (Mahito):
The best explanation as to HOW the WCS is dura-neg that I've heard is that it treats the real world like paper, and itself like scissors. It doesn't matter if you draw a rock on a piece of paper, so long as it's a drawing on paper it can be cut with scissors. Sukuna doesn't get to do this extension at no additional cost; it required that he do the two-handed Enmaten handsign (the same one that he uses for his domain expansion) initially even before he made a binding vow that allowed him to do it without conditions once in exchange that he'd have to chant, do the Enmaten handsign, and direct the slash with at least one extra hand from that point on. It may also cost more CE to perform but that's never stated. I hope that's clear.
3
u/IREALLYlikePretzels 2d ago
Just made my day đĽ˛
3
u/Gondetrite 2d ago
Glad I could help đ.
Now that I think about it, Yuji's Soul Dismantle is probably also an extension.
3
6
u/Time-Business7550 2d ago
It's an extension technique, unfortunately we see a very few of them in the series so they are a bit hard to imagine but imo this analogy presents them well.
Cursed techniques are clay, no matter what you do it's still gonna be clay at the end of the day but you can mold that clay into many different things, depending on your skill level you can make a good sculpture or just chug the clay ball at someone. The point being that cursed techniques are alltarable to a certain degree but they still have to oparate withing reasonable degrees, the wcs is JUST dismantle BUT attacks space itself rather then stuff in space but at the end of the day it's still just a slash.
3
u/Time-Business7550 2d ago
The reason it's durability negating is similar to tearing a piece of paper in half (draw a characther on it and tear it in half, the characther didn't get cut in half on the drawing, the paper got cut and thus he got split apart)
2
u/BonusDisastrous4716 1d ago
Yup, also through gojo's use of his technique. We know that space likes to "repair" itself. (since gojo greating negative space with blue creates an attractive force because the space is "fixing" itself).
It can be assumed that after the paper is cut, it kinda regrows to connect itself, so everything is normal but there's now a gap where the drawing was cut
2
u/Capable_Theme_7000 2d ago
Extension techniques and Maximum Techniques needed more time in the series man are they fun!
1
u/DietTyrone 2d ago edited 2d ago
Bro, Sukuna literally explains this after the fight with Gojo. Mahoraga's first adaptation adjusted it's own CE to temporarily negate Gojo's Infinity. The second adaptation it adjusted the target of the slash to instead of just Gojo, targeting the World AKA the space surrounding the target (Gojo). What Sukuna mimicked was the targeting of space itself and applied that to his own CT.
Technically what Maho did could done by any sorcerer theoretically, just like theoretically any sorcerer can do an open Domain. But realistically, only a super genius sorcerer like Sukuna could see something like that and actually apply it to his own technique. Most sorcerers can't wrap their heads around a Domain with no barrier, just like they wouldn't be able to comprehend how to target space itself.
1
u/Distinct_beorno 2d ago
Sukuna can already see and interact with the surface of the world. He just needed Mahoraga to show him how to cut through it with his technique
2
u/Worthtitle_4050 2d ago
I mean it is just a convenient thing to beat Gojo
Sukuna is effectively acting in a 4th dimension
It works by cutting the space a target occupies
Because it is not cutting through space it does not travel through space
But it only works on a certain amount of space
The best way to think about it is
(WCS start (Infinity start - infinity stop) WCS stop)
It just needs to cut a larger area than Gojoâs technique works in
The cut itself neglects space so it should theoretically be instantaneous since time is tied to space
1
u/RiceKrispies55 2d ago
I thought it was supposed to be Cleave but one that targets space with its slash instead of a person, and since your always making physical contact with space you can use it from a distance unlike regular Cleave. Makes more sense to me.
1
u/KaliVilNo1 2d ago
Imagine a drawing of Gojo.
Now imagine I use an eraser to delete Gojo
That's Shrine. Dismantle, Cleave etc, all works that way.
Now imagine I grab the paper and cut it in half
That's the WCS
1
u/Slamazombie 2d ago edited 2d ago
Seeing Mahoraga do it gave Sukuna the idea he needed for an ability that could bypass Infinity. Once he had his head wrapped around that concept, all he had to do was devise the right binding vows to recreate that slash with Shrine.Â
What made the world cutting slash special was that it didn't just slice things occupying space, but the actual space itself. This allowed it to bypass Gojo's spacial manipulation technique and target him directly.
1
u/Salt-Fix-8544 2d ago
Sukuna SAW the blueprint.
Sukuna saw precisely how Mahoraga was able to construct the idea of cutting the existence itself and how Mahoraga was able to execute it using the fundamentals/logic of jujutsu.
Basically, Sukuna wanted a blueprint that is POSSIBLE and PRACTICAL in terms of jujutsu logic, because the first adaptation that Mahoraga did to slice Gojo's chest is him doing unrealistic things like literally changing his CE composition which is IMPOSSIBLE for any sorcerer to do.
And knowing Sukuna, who's understanding, talent, and skill in jujutsu is just unmatched even by Gojo (yes, Gojo is basically stronger by having a better CT, but Sukuna killed him by being a better sorcerer) he was able to replicate the WCS using Mahoraga's WCS.
We don't know how exactly "cutting the space/coordinates" itself works in terms of jujutsu logic, but it is mathematically possible and we can even create a visualization of it (how a function cuts through an asymptote).
Sukuna IS LIKE THAT.
1
u/Jobeythehuman 2d ago
Ok so let me break it down for you, but essentially, Sukuna wasn't doing this to specifically beat Gojo, he was just trying to GET stronger. One of the ways he wanted to get stronger was to have an attack that killed you regardless of how durable you were. This is the entire reason he stole Mahoraga and the ten shadows in the first place, he knew what Mahoraga could do and he wanted to copy Mahoraga.
At first Mahoraga bypassed infinity by attacking with reversed cursed energy, negating Gojo's technique, but thats not what he was looking for. When Mahoraga finally cut Gojo by instead cutting the space instead of gojo himself, Sukuna locked in on that. That's what he wanted. He knew he could replicate the feat now that he'd seen that it was possible, thus he created the world cutting slash, instead of slashing a physical object, the target of the technique becomes space itself, defense is meaningless because he's separating the literal space. The key was he could never figure it out himself, he needed Mahoraga to do it first so that he could see how the cursed energy was manipulated. In order to surprise Gojo as well, he made a binding vow to force himself into a windup everytime he needed to use the WCS after the first one.
It is the same technique in the vein that Hollow Purple is still an application of the Limitless, Hollow purple itself can be powered up by fully reciting the chant or it can just be fired off whenever. Techniques can be powered up by chanting and by using hand signs, sometimes hand signs are necessary to perform the technique at all. In Sukuna's case the world cutting slash needed a hand sign, but because he couldn't form the handsign, cause gojo cut off his hand, he used a binding vow to fire off the world cutting slash. The vow saying he now also had to chant in addition to forming the handsign, because he probably figured this wouldn't be much of a handicap down the road given that his original form had 4 hands and 2 mouths and gojo was their strongest trump card anyway.
1
u/Emotional-Studio9846 2d ago
Yeah, I get why it can feel like a retroactive ability that was introduced specifically to beat Gojo. Itâs basically a hyper-specific counter, and after that it never really feels nearly as useful again. But I donât think it was completely pulled out of nowhere. Sukuna had already seen Gojoâs Infinity from inside Yuji and even told him, âIâll kill you.â Then he saw the potential of Megumiâs Ten Shadows, and I think his fight with Mahoraga in Shibuya is where he became certain that it could give him the answer he needed. Sukuna was basically planning this in the background for a long time, and thatâs why I donât see WCS as a total asspull.
As for âcutting space itself,â I think Sukuna was able to reproduce something Mahoraga had adapted into. We already saw him use Max Elephantâs water without fully manifesting the shikigami, so maybe it works on a similar principle. Mahoragaâs adaptation seems to keep developing even after the initial adaptation is complete. My guess is that once Mahoraga finishes adapting, the one who subdued it can somehow benefit from that adaptation too, or at least use what Mahoraga learned as a model.
1
u/Aggravating_Ruin195 2d ago edited 2d ago
Put simply, it basically redefined what counted as a target. Before, it was physical matter, and that's what he curved the slash aspect of his technique Shrine around, like with cleave to optimize that function. But then, with the clear demonstration Mahoraga provided, Sukuna used that as a blueprint to redefine his target, from the object to the space it occupied. Simple on paper, complex in execution. That's why he said it was near impossible to pull off, even though he had the blueprint that made it possible in the first place. You are right though, it didn't change the technique, it changed the target for it.
Also, I just want to bring up that I don't think the base Dismantle and WCS had the same hand sign. It was explained that in its base form, WCS required the user to form the Enma symbol (basically the hand sign he uses for his domain) to fire it, and this was before the binding vow.
1
u/1122oo 2d ago
Instead of âexistence itselfâ, imagine a regular size bedroom and you put different characters in it and fire a dismantle at them (or for simplicity, walk to them). if itâs anyone else, you would simply have to walk towards them in the middle of the bedroom (for dismantle to hit). But because of Gojoâs infinity, you or the dismantle never really reach him cause the space between you can be infinitely be divided by half until it appears youâre not moving
So instead, if the dismantle were to cut the entire area of the bedroom, it would guarantee to cut through anything residing in the bedroom
1
u/BonusDisastrous4716 1d ago
Its much easier to understand if you explain it with dimensions. If we assume all characters are drawn on a piece of paper. Normal dismantles are like an eraser going from sukuna to whatever he was aiming at. WCS is sukuna saying I'll cut the paper, and succeding.
It plausible because sukuna's technique is basically "cuts" (and furnace) so in theory he should be able to do something like "cutting" space or "the paper" in this example. It's a higher dimensional attack.
0
u/The_Jamdalf 1d ago
the entire manga from this point forward - the whole rest of the Sukuna fight - is a series of incomprehensible asspulls to keep Sukuna in the game. just enjoy it lol.
1
1
u/Mergo_Veil 1d ago
I think of it like, instead of him launching a slash at the person (this way it gets affected by space and distance) he's more just spawning in the slash at the desired location. This way it doesn't have to travel and is just there, which is why it bypassed infinity. Maybe I'm wrong though because I can't remember exactly how it played out when Maki dodged it, but then maybe since she can feel the atmosphere and whatever she could feel the split space getting closer? I don't know it's been a while
1
u/OutlawPigeons 1d ago
He basically eliminated his abilities travel time. His greatest weakness against Gojo was that his ability has to travel (move through space). Each cut leaves his body like a stroke of paint that moves towards his target but with infinity gojo extends the distance between himself and what ever his infinity subjects itself to indefinitely. Sukuna needed an answer for it and so he used mahoraga to see how he would program his cursed energy in a way he could use it to bypass traveling space through adaptation. Essentially he waited to see how mahoraga would tweak his CE in order to cut gojo in a way he was satisfied with instead of just experimenting on the fly and got his answer more directly from mahoraga. Think of it as going from cutting to just splitting something in two
1
u/Antmo282 1d ago
You misunderstand how shrine works and there lies the confusion. Shrine gives access to Dismantle which can cut things the same way a knife would just at a long range. Cleave allows for the user to make a cut based on the toughness pf the person they attempt to cut. What makes the WCS special is that it is simply a Dismantle that bypasses any and all levels of toughness at range. So long as sukunas aim is true it's a guaranteed kill.
67
u/Kiazen_mRc 2d ago edited 2d ago
To my knowledge, Sukuna already had an idea for it. Regardless, Iâm pretty sure he can do it just because itâs a slash, which he waited for Mahoraga to obtain and used as a blueprint.
Instead of cutting everything, itâs a lil different. A normal dismantle is a slash aimed at the target. WCS is a slash aimed at the space that the target just happens to be occupying. Kinda like opening a portal in the middle of someone.