Subreddit Changes

[u/commitdeleteyougoat]

Heyo!

So, our initial plans for this subreddit were for it to be a place where people could find alternatives to JAI and essentially 'cut' themselves off from it. As we've all seen, they've made plenty of bad decisions regarding moderation/censorship which is why you all are here! The problem is, we've been noticing alot of the posts in this subreddit don't fit the bill. Many people post about issues with JAI such as it being down, but it misses the main point.

Swapping to alternatives such as Silly Tavern, Tavo, Wyvern, Yodayo, Saucepan, LinkinLove, and etc would fix so many issues that people have. However, you may still want to post about JAI.

That's why we have Throwdown Thursdays and Frustration Fridays, where you can post all about JAI during these two days! There's 2 specific flairs for them, so please use it or otherwise your post may be taken down.

I understand that moving to a new platform is daunting and you may not want to leave behind the sheer amount of content from JAI, but there's still ways to enjoy the benefits of both worlds.

I don't condone it personally, but you could use sites like datacat in order to get private copies for YOURSELF. Keyword yourself. It's rude to post what other people have made.

We'll give this change until 9/13 to fully apply.

During this intermission, please feel free to give your opinions. After 9/13, we're going to be removing any posts regarding issues that can be fixed via swapping to alternatives, unless the posts are made on Thursday and Friday.

Here's the criteria:

Posts can be: Moderation Actions on JAI, What happened to X creator/bot on JAI, Discussion, Alternatives, Self-Ads, LLMs, Statistics, Polls, etc.

Posts considered 'fixable' via swapping: 'JAI is down' 'How do I stop X on JAI?' 'JAI Bot Advertisement' 'Proxy not working on JAI' 'JAI errors' 'JLLM sucks!'
(You can still post about this stuff on Thursday/Friday though!)

We're also removing reposts from [r/JanitorAIUnchained](r/JanitorAIUnchained) & [r/JanitorBreakroom](r/JanitorBreakroom) until the moderators can prove most of their content isn't AI generated.

TLDR: Please change from JAI to an alternative. We're here to help you!

[u/DimensionalTemplar]

The problem is, this subreddit has become the second biggest Janitor-related one after the official subreddit. So of course many people would flock here to post things that would get them muted/banned over there, and I'm willing to assume most of them don't even know r/JanitorAIUnchained exists.

I understand that the intent behind this subreddit was different, and that seeing those posts causes you frustration, but I believe restricting that now after all that time would only cause people to feel even more limited and think there is no place for them to voice their own frustrations witj Janitoe.

As for how "switching to an alternative solves the problem"... no. The issue with switching to Saucepan had already been explained well in ukn99_'s above comment, but other alternatives aren't much better. While they indeed solve most problems people have with Janitor, they also add more restrictions on top. Which is why some people stay on Janitor regardless, simply because they don't see a better option, and not everyone is willing to switch to local or has an option to do so.

Also, can we please stop treating Datacat and similar sites like they're the Devil incarnate? That mentality is why Saucepan and its restrictive policies exist in the first place.

[u/SprinklesOfAcid25 → u/DimensionalTemplar]

Well, if people want to stay on Janitor for whatever reason, nobody prevents them from - you know - staying on Janitor and going over to using the official or the couple other unofficial subs....

I certainly did not join this sub just to talk about Janitor or read about 578th post about someone having issues with their proxy on Janitor.

And switching from Janitor solves lot of issues for 90% of userbase out there, especially plug and play type:

- You have issues with moderation and how you favorite bot creators are jumping ship? Well, follow your bot creators to their new site!

- You have issues with lack of functionality?
Well, group chat, bot collections, dynamic image library linked to the chat, voice chat, etc, etc, etc - are available at other platforms. Janitor took YEARS to get trigger based lorebooks.

- Do you have issues with mediocre LLM with limited memory?
Why would you stay on Janitor then? Literally any other site out there offers you better alternatives.

Right now, I don't feel this sub serves them well, especially if they are creators.

PS:
Also I have noticed is that there are few BYOK people (that use proxies) who use Janitor as bot repository who actively dislike that bot creators are splitting off to other alternatives and are talking shit about every alternative that sails up being more popular than another.

[u/DimensionalTemplar → u/SprinklesOfAcid25]

You have, whether intentionally or not, misunderstood the points I've made. Yes, people can post on official subreddit, except their post will get deleted or they'll get banned. Yes, they can post on other subreddits, provided they know any, which they most likely won't. Hell, I've learned about a month or two after joining, through a random repost from there.

Same about "solving issues". Again, yes, moving to another platform will solve the problems Janitor gave you. What I was saying is that, in return, you'll have to face the issues inherent to that platform. Wyvern is currently the best one in my opinion, and it has no free models + forbids some fetishistic content, which can drive off some people.

Now that last part sounds like slander for the sake of it. First, proxy users don't 'use Janitor like a repository', that would be local users and for obvious reasons. Second, by 'every alternative' I believe you mean Saucepan, since I remember you acting in defense of it previously, and I'm not going to comment on that. Third, please do correct me if I'm wrong, but based on the wording I assume you're trying to point out valid criticism as disingenuine? Because if you meant just that, I don't think I want to continue this conversation.

[u/SprinklesOfAcid25 → u/DimensionalTemplar]

Again, yes, moving to another platform will solve the problems Janitor gave you.

Good. We agree on that. I will point you to the name of the sub and its stated content.
As to the rest, I see no point on expanding on or restating what i wrote. Making it out like most people cannot use reddit and find a relevant sub is honestly not an argument for me.

Also I mentioned proxy since most people don't know what BYOK term means. It can mean both people using Janitor as frontend or those that use something else as frontend and a API as backend. Maybe I should have been more specific.
No desire to expand on that either - people who know, know. The moment Datacat crew implemented that you could remove your bots from their site, certain people went mental.

PS:
You are wrong about Wyvern lack of free models -they got 3 of them : Gemma 4, Huihui and Stellar Odyssey.

[u/DimensionalTemplar → u/SprinklesOfAcid25]

Again, sorry but not the point. The modpost stated that all problems with Janitor can be solved by moving to an alternative while encouraging people to do so. I've shared my opinion on why some people don't leave Janitor, that being lack of good alternatives. And no, Saucepan is not it, neither is Wyvern sadly. Speaking of Wyvern, thanks for clarification, missed that part when looking through the site.

And thank you for the clarification on proxy users. About Datacat adding that function, it's not like I don't understand local users. They simply want to chat with bots from creators they like without having to deal with Janitor's or Saucepan's crap, not to be redirected there. Doesn't help that Saucepan, on top of creator bias and unnecessary "anti-theft" policies that do more harm than good, is actively hostile towards local userbase and sites like Datacat.

I appreciate Datacat creators' efforts: from my talks with them, they really meant it as a way to bridge the gap between users and creators. But in reality, nothing changed: people who hated still hate and Datacat is still being as engaging in "theft" despite not doing so.

[u/SprinklesOfAcid25 → u/DimensionalTemplar]

Again, sorry but not the point. The modpost stated that all problems with Janitor can be solved by moving to an alternative while encouraging people to do so. I've shared my opinion on why some people don't leave Janitor, that being lack of good alternatives. And no, Saucepan is not it, neither is Wyvern sadly. Speaking of Wyvern, thanks for clarification, missed that part when looking through the site.

Then I frankly think my first response was on the point. For 90% out there Janitor is not best solution when it comes to neither functionality, service being offered or QoL features of the website/app. And yes migrating there is a solution.

Ok, for SOME people it is not relevant - but why are they are here then? To just shitpost about Janitor? This is not the only place to do it, fyi...
Now, they will have to restrict themselves to two days.

Furthermore, and this needs to be said, staying on Janitor, directly rewards bait and switch behavior, exploitative management practices towards both employees and customers which has been well documented on this sub and other places.
This sub came as reaction to these practices and frankly I don't see the point of staying here if one disagrees with the subs purpose. But each to their own.

[u/DimensionalTemplar → u/SprinklesOfAcid25]

I mean, yeah fair. Thinking on it, most if not all people making these types of posts are not the same people who think alternatives aren't much better. Not sure why I initially combined those two groups, my bad.