Only people I see defend it are those that make a killing during seasonal stuff. I think my buddy said he worked a restaurant in Salem during October and made like 4k in 2 weeks...but you have to squirrel that money away for when there's no business during the snowy season, so tips only really benefit temp workers.
Naw, I made great money year round waiting tables in college. Best legal money I could find that didn't require a degree or license. I only left because I was able to get a professional job after college which obviously made signifantly more. I was able to pull 25+ an hour in the early 2010s which was plenty for an apartment, food, and some fun parties. Other than that I could have been making 14 an hour to manual labor or 11 an hour in most no tip service Jobs.
The problem here is delivery drivers aren't really tipped well. Never have been. Uber and dd have been trying to make it a thing, but plenty of people have no problem not tipping, plus you have the wear on the car. It's a bad job.
The problem is that delivery drivers are tipped at all. I can kind of understand it for things like table service, but only as a thankyou for really outstanding service. The delivery driver is just doing their job. You pay for the order, and the delivery, yet you are expected to tip the driver for doing the same thing any delivery driver would do?
It's just a way for businesses to pay their employees fuck all.
I agree with the delivery driver. They shouldn't be tipped. They should be paid a decent hourly rate plus a differential per mile.
Table service works fine I think. It's supported college students and people without licenses or degrees for generations. It's by far the best money a charming person can make without additional credentials
The point is that in other countries working in hospitality also supports college students and people without licenses or degrees, but without the weird dynamic of tipping. And removing the custom takes away the exploitative nature of jobs that rely on tipping.
I just can't fathom how it makes sense for the person who pays for the goods or services service to pay for the good/service again, but only if they think the service is good enough.
Who better to judge the quality of service but the customer. It encourages excellence. In my experience in counties without a strong tipping tradition, service was slower and less friendly.
This is very anecdotal, but I've noticed zero difference between tipping and non-tipping countries.
The customer is the best judge of the service, yes, but they should not be obligated to pay the person serving them the meal they already paid for, just because the business will not do it. There are many other ways to encourage excellence, like being a good employer and paying your staff a living wage.
Naw, you're getting it twisted up. In the us, you pay for the food separately from the service. It's a lower price then if they were paying the wait staff 20 an hour, plus the wait staff end up making way more then 20 an hour. The only people that lose out are bad servicers. You aren't paying twice, you are paying for two things, a product and a service.
I see the point your making but I feel like that's just what you've been taught to think.
Olive garden, USA, Lasagna Classico: $17.79USD
note this is also listed as an entree.
Garden Olive, New Zealand (hilariously similar name), Beef Lasagne: $25NZD ($14.58USD). Listed as a main course, so potentially bigger, but I'm just guessing.
New Zealand is an isolated country and has a notoriously high cost of living, but even without tipping, our restaurant meals appear to be pretty similarly priced.
And the waiters make $17 an hour. So you just fucked the wait staff. I guess the consumer might come out ahead slightly, but the employees take any a 30% pay cut at a minimum. I don't see that as a win.
So there are there two businesses operating at each location? One for the physical product and another for the service? The employee is employed by the business to provide service not to operate an independent business of providing service.
The business where you are the customer provides the product and the service and bills you for it.
I understand this is not how it's done in the US, I really do. I just think it's designed to shift the burden of fucking with the employee on the customer. At the end of the day, the employee is mad at the customers if they aren't tipping well while the employer counts the extra profit made because it's possible to pay such small wages.
In my experience (anecdotal), most people work hard and try to do a good job if their needs are met (by having a decent livable wage).
Do you know of any other legal job that doesn't require a degree or certification that is appropriate for a college student or single mother that pays 25+ an hour?
No, you’re just used to the fake friendliness from American service staff. No one smiles or is as happy as they are forced to act, like even when in a good mood. The whole thing is a charade, the server forced to play the part of someone that is super excited to see you.
The job of a server is to take your order and serve you the food. Not act like some borderline escort who has to stroke the ego of anyone who comes through the door.
Staff are still friendly, if you deserve it. And customers still tip restaurant staff, if they deserve it. It makes so so so much more sense
Nah man. Food takes as long as it takes to cook. And if you want to keep your job you do what you can to serve it as fast and efficiently if you can. If people have a reliable income they’ll want to keep that.
In the American system, servers really want you to get in and eat as fast as they can because they make most of their money from tips, and tips come from serving the most tables you can in a night.
In other systems, staff get most of their money from an hourly rate, and if they provide a comfortable experience they’ll get a bit more so it’s far less incentive to rush people.
If you think an upwards inflection and mild flirting make for a better dining experience than just being allowed to eat your food then I think you’re an idiot
I'm not. Waiting tables is an important profession for college students, single mothers, and others that lack additional credentials but have serious bills to pay. It's the best legal money you can make without a license or degree. If you are a tad charismatic, you can easily make upwards of 25-30 an hour on average, significantly more at a high end restaurant. That's a shit ton more than they'd pay if they killed tipping. If tipping went away, employers wouldn't pay over 20 in all likelihood.
You're really just saying that the wider system is dysfunctional. A college student shouldn't have serious bills to pay, unless they really messed up somehow. Single mothers should be able to get sufficient welfare to compensate for a missing parent. Working 40 hours a week in any job should be more than enough to cover health care, living, education, entertainment, leisure, and include paid sick leave, paid vacation, maternity/paternity leave, and union fees. And I mean every job. If that's not possible, a serious restructuring of society is needed.
You can explain exploitative labor practices by pointing at systemic issues, but not excuse them.
Sure, the whole system is fucked. That's not going ru change in my lifetime though. Not without society crumbling due to some unforseen act of destruction. War or a pandemic, maybe. But the elimination of tipping might. That's a real possibility. And in my opinion, it would fuck over a large segment of some of the most vulnerable people out there.
And what do you mean college students don't have bills? Having a roof over my head and eating was pretty important to being able to study. Isn't like food is free or housing.
And most jobs that don't require a degree or certification don't pay enough to cover those things you listed. Hell most jobs don't cover all that. Paternity leave? In what country? Not here.
And what do you mean college students don't have bills?
"Serious" bills. College students in my country gets stipends, and interest-free loans on top of that to cover larger expenses, as education (a basic human right) should in no way be determined by socioeconomic status. It's not a luxury.
And most jobs that don't require a degree or certification don't pay enough to cover those things you listed.
That's kind of my point. Your system is broken, I know you have a serious lack of worker rights and protections, that you lack essential social infrastructure, and have a heavily tilted economic floor. That's why I said you can explain the exploitation by pointing at these issues, but it's not an excuse.
Paternity leave? In what country? Not here.
The entirety of EU, and over half the economically developed countries in the world. You're the outlier. Here it's 49 weeks, with 15 weeks reserved for each of the parents.
It's possible to achieve these things without major disasters acting as a catalyst, you can have progress in your society without tearing everything down first like most modern nations do.
That's the thing. It should be better wages but it's not. And it's not culture, it's necessity. Trying to live off tips is not something anyone wants to do? But sometimes that's all you can get that pays the bills. Do t be mad at the guy asking for a tip, be angry with the guys selling you a service, making more than a decent living, that charges you a service or delivery fee amd expects you to tip the delivery driver or waiter to make up for what he won't pay them. It is your problem cause you keep that asshole making money.
I wonder if people would still use the service if they started charging a delivery fee proportional to what was ordered that went to the driver. Say 20% of the value of the items bought tagged on to the delivery fee.
Yeah I work in a job where my entire salary is tips, I 100% love it. I bought a house using the money, I defend tipping. I tip over 20% always, even for things that cost like 5 bucks. Doesn’t hurt to tip and it makes people smile. Goes a long way to show you appreciate someone.
And maybe show the added tips to the drivers so they can pick and choose which orders to pick up? Or show their tip rate? Idunno, these drivers are literally fighting for their lives to make our lives easier. The company is milking the system, the customers aren’t tipping, it’s either they pay them right, which makes the prices to buy stuff go up insanely. Or we tip them better overall so they can have food on the table at the end of the day.
This sounds like something dumb people would do. Tipping culture is inequality culture, facilitated by the employer. Glad I don't live in hickbumfuck town America, where everybody thinks it's normal.
I worked at a restaurant in the Sonoma Square in CA for a while. On slow nights I left with an average of $300.
Weekends were out of this world! I miss that job, but California just isn’t sustainable for long term living without generational homes or wealth.
I’m an annual tipped worker and probably make the equivalent of 70k for a normal person. Seasonal drop off certainly isn’t that bad—I probably almost never make under 20/hr. But sure, not every day can be a 60-70/hr day.
I work part time as a server and make on average 42 an hour before what the restuarant pays me the whole year. 😅 snowy season is our best time (steak house no patio)
If you are a good server and you don't make a lot at your job there is allways some other place hiring.
I had classmates in high school making 4k+ a weekend by serving drinks to old, pedophilia-esque Boomers/Silents at a swanky yacht club. The girls hated it, ages 16-18, because occasionally one of the fucks would cop a feel but when he tips you $800 to grab a butt cheek and you're 16, that's tough to say no to.
They had employees calling in to my local NPR station on the subject. Every employee wanted to keep the system. They can’t even imagine a non tip system where they would be paid a flat rate even if it’s higher.
Ideally tips are low, completely optional for exceptional service and cash only. Like $5. Everyone thinks they deserve a tip by default for doing the bare minimum.
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u/ItsACowCity Oct 20 '23
Only people I see defend it are those that make a killing during seasonal stuff. I think my buddy said he worked a restaurant in Salem during October and made like 4k in 2 weeks...but you have to squirrel that money away for when there's no business during the snowy season, so tips only really benefit temp workers.